Thread: Save Act Yes Or No ?

BearFlagRepublic wrote:

MW wrote:
Please don't let Ron Paul own your conscience. The Save Act is a very good plan that will go a long way in removing illegal aliens from the jobs Americans should be holding.

IMO, WorriedAmerican's got it right on this:

YES to SAVE Act!!!

Ron Paul also believes a border fence is offensive, doesn't support sending active duty troops to the border, and doesn't believe in going after employers that hire illegal aliens. IMHO, Ron Paul is not the savior that some think him to be. Border security and illegal immigration enforcement are not his strong points.

Agreed (big surprise, huh?).

As I'm sure you remember, I was right there with you on this:

I tried to tell people this about Paul many, many times here before SAVE was even introduced.

Well, doesn't the article above indicate that Real ID or chip identification would be required to meet the qualifications of the Save Act? Did I misunderstand this?

Originally Posted by MW

First we need to get the law on the books, then we can work on ensuring that it gets enforced.

Yes, the laws on the books are outdated and ridden with loop-holes. That is exactly what SAVE is adressing. It will make attrition that much more efficient. SAVE can not hurt our movement. Its not like we will be better off without it. It makes no sense for us to oppose SAVE.

I've been pushing my congress and rep very hard on this issue. Although it seems like I'm wasting my time. I will continue to do so. We need the Save Act to stop employers from hiring illegal aliens. Without this law then employers will keep hiring illegals and not fear punishment. I'm sorry, but I support Dr. Paul but not on this issue! SUPPORT THE SAVE ACT!

Here's some thoughts from a different angle Lynn:
Do you agree with slave labor in this 21st Century?
Low pay, long hours(up to 16 hours a day), no over-time, no Workman's Comp and no health insurance at your job?
People paid "under the table" (no taxes on the money.)
How about 20 - 30 people living in a house?
These employers undercut all the other ones in that same industry
With no where to complain either..
This is the Humanitarian side of it, even though I am on the American workers side
Because that's what is happening!

I always like to look at those who are opposed to legislation and the reasons they are opposed to it.

Check out this group and the reasons they are opposed to the SAVE Act. Sounds like they are opposed to the SAVE Act because it might actually accomplish many of the things we have been advocating for.

Here is the link:

http://www.immigrantjustice.org/blog...-save-act.html

Originally Posted by NoBueno

I always like to look at those who are opposed to legislation and the reasons they are opposed to it.

Check out this group and the reasons they are opposed to the SAVE Act. Sounds like they are opposed to the SAVE Act because it might actually accomplish many of the things we have been advocating for.

Here is the link:

http://www.immigrantjustice.org/blog...-save-act.html

Exactly. Bet your bottum dollar that La Raza, MALDEF, Mecha, and the Chamber of Commerce are all opposed to SAVE.

Lynn wrote:

Well, doesn't the article above indicate that Real ID or chip identification would be required to meet the qualifications of the Save Act? Did I misunderstand this?

The E-verify system is already in place and being used by many businesses. The SAVE Act, if signed into law, will gradually require that all businesses utilize the system within 4 years. Read the legislation and decide for yourself if it's a good plan. Many of those in opposition will come along with reasons of why we shouldn't do something but one thing is certain, they have an agenda that does not include identifying the positive aspects of what they're opposing.


[quote]SAVE Act of 2007
Secure America with Verification and Enforcement
Highlights of H.R. 4088, the SAVE Act of 2007 – read full text of legislation.

TITLE I – SECURE AMERICA'S BORDERS
Sec 101. Manpower

Border Patrol Agents –
Border Patrol Agents are increased by 8,000.
The section is amended to change the distribution of the increase by hiring more of the 8,000 border patrol agents within the initial years and extends the increase in border patrol agents to 2012.
6,400 of the Border Patrol Agents are allocated to the Southern Border and 1,600 are allocated to the Northern Border (the total number of border patrol agents on the Northern Border will double in five years)
Border Patrol Agents increase thus:
2,500 in 2008 (500 agents to the Northern Border (NB); 2,000 to the Southern Border (SB))
2,000 in 2009 (400 agents to the NB; 1,600 to the SB)
1,500 in 2010 (300 agents to the NB; 1,200 to the SB)
1,000 in 2011 (200 agents to the NB; 800 to the SB)
1,000 in 2012 (200 agents to the NB; 800 to the SB)


Investigative Personnel –
350 hires must be made each year for personnel specifically assigned to investigating the smuggling of aliens.
Funds to the Tunnel Task Force (a dedicated team investigating tunnels built across the international border for purposes of drugs smuggling, human smuggling and WMD smuggling) are increased by 50%. This allows them to hire more staff, improve their infrastructure and offer better rewards to their sources.


Recruitment of Former Members of the Armed Forces and Members of Reserve Components of the Armed Forces –
The Secretary of Homeland Security will establish a program to recruit former members of the Armed Forces or reservists within 2 years of their exit from the Armed Forces to serve in the US Customs and Border Protection Service.
The amendment provides one possible incentive to be offered to individuals, which is the repayment of student loans for time served as a full-time US Border Patrol Agent.
Another incentive spelled out by the bill is offering the full range of recruitment and relocation bonuses.

Sec 102. Technology

Equipment Sharing Between Department of Homeland Security and Department of Defense –
The Departments of Defense and Homeland Security will provide more equipment for surveillance of the international borders.
The progress of this cooperation will be reported to Congress.
Satellite communications shall be improved to provide better communication capabilities between all involved parties.
The Secretary is required to start using new technologies to secure the borders.


Sec 103. Technology

Infrastructure Improvements –
The Secretary of Homeland Security is required to improve the infrastructure for all apparatus related to border security, including providing new office facilities, SUVs, better roads along the border, additional fencing and vehicle barriers (while adhering to environmental concerns).


Sec 104. Aerial Vehicles and Surveillance Systems

Unmanned Aerial Vehicle Pilot Program –
The Secretary of Homeland Security is required to test out the feasibility of using Unmanned Aerial Vehicles (UAVs) to provide surveillance along the northern border.
For this the Secretary is required to purchase and maintain the associated infra-structure.


Aerial Surveillance Program –
The section requires the Secretary to fully integrate and utilize aerial surveillance technologies to secure the Northern and the Southern borders, to ensure continuous monitoring of every single mile of the borders.


Assessment and Consultation Requirements –
The Secretary of Homeland Security is required to consider all the options for aerial surveillance technologies and assessing whether they work or not.
The Secretary is required to consult with the Secretary of Defense about technologies or equipment he can deploy along the international borders, and with the Administrator of the FAA about safety and airspace coordination.


Integrated and Automated Surveillance Program –
A ‘virtual fence’ shall be established along the international borders, comprising UAVs, drones, cameras, poles, sensors, satellites, radar coverage and others to ensure that each mile of international border is watched and controlled.
The Automated Surveillance Program must be integrated and automated to allow for much of the functions of this program to be carried out without additional manpower.
Contracts valued higher than $5 million given out for the work necessary to establish this program shall be publicly disclosed.


Subtitle B – Strategies and Progress Reports for Securing America’s Borders
Sec 111. National Strategy to Secure the Borders

Requirement for National Strategy –
A national strategy shall be developed to secure the borders. It will describe what needs to be done to achieve security of all ports of entry into the United States.


Content –
The national strategy will include an assessment of the threats posed by terrorists who attempt to infiltrate the United States along the international borders.
A risk assessment for all ports of entry, including areas of land, and a description of what action is being taken in regards to those points of entry to prevent unlawful infiltration of all kinds and the protection of critical infrastructure in proximity.
An assessment of cost-effective ways of defending the international and maritime borders against terrorism and illegal immigration.
A clear explanation of the different roles of federal, state and local authorities so an assessment can be made about how intra-governmental cooperation can become more efficient.
An assessment of what technology is currently being used.
A list of research objectives geared towards increasing US border security.
Means by which the free flow of travel and commerce is not diminished by efforts to secure the border.
Assessments of the current state of alien detention facilities in terms of numbers and requirements for the future.
A schedule for the implementation of the measures that are created by this strategy, including an estimate of resources needed.


Consultation –
The Secretary of Homeland Security is required to consult with state, local, tribal and affected communities.


Coordination –
The National Strategy to Secure the Borders is to be consistent with the National Strategy for Maritime Security (Homeland Security Presidential Directive 13).


Submission to Congress –
National Strategy to Secure the Border must be submitted one year after enactment of this bill. Updates to be submitted to Congress no later than 30 days after being made.


Sec 112. Accountable Financing of a Secure Border Initiative

Comptroller General of the United States and the Government Accountability Office (GAO) –
The Comptroller General and GAO are given the power to report improper conduct of contracted organizations for work related to border security to the Secretary of Homeland Security, who can then temporarily suspend the contractor from further participation in the Secure Border Initiative.
The Comptroller General and GAO will report to the Secretary of Homeland Security a report about cost-overruns, lack of rigorous contract management, insufficient oversight, the need for competition in the contract process and high risk business practices of the contracting process and organizations.


Reports by the Secretary –
The Secretary will report to Congress the findings of the Comptroller General and GAO and the steps the Secretary has taken to address any problems identified in that report.
Every time a foreign company is contracted to work on the Secure Border Initiative, the Secretary will report that contract to Congress.
Proposals to purchase ports within the United States by foreign entities must be submitted in a report to Congress and be open to public scrutiny, including any security concerns and how those concerns would be addressed.


Subtitle C – Rapid Response Measures
Section 121 – Emergency Deployment of Border Patrol Agents

Empowers Governors of Border States to declare an international border security emergency and request as many as 1000 additional Border Patrol Agents from the Secretary of Homeland Security.
The Secretary must grant the request and supply agents to the extent it will not “significantly impairâ€

Originally Posted by WorriedAmerican

Here's some thoughts from a different angle Lynn:
Do you agree with slave labor in this 21st Century?
Low pay, long hours(up to 16 hours a day), no over-time, no Workman's Comp and no health insurance at your job?
People paid "under the table" (no taxes on the money.)
How about 20 - 30 people living in a house?
These employers undercut all the other ones in that same industry
With no where to complain either..
This is the Humanitarian side of it, even though I am on the American workers side

Because that's what is happening!

Your response is a bit hostile and I don't appreciate it. I work hard on the illegal immigration problems and spend most of my spare time writing my legislatures as well as other states pushing for tougher enforcement. But I'm not going to just blindly support something just because most of you do. I don't want my freedoms infringed upon in the process of demanding that employers stop hiring illegals. If I am all of a sudden required to have Real ID to get hired somewhere, I don't support that. I'm not clear on this E-Verify system and I need to look into it more before I spend time pressuring lawmakers to sign the Save Act bill.

The idea of creating a national data base with the personal information of 300 million Americans does not make me want to jump for joy. I believe we can expand or improve upon existing data bases such as the US Passports which are issued through the State Department. This in combination with mandatory E-Verify would go along way in reducing or eliminating the illegals who are employed in this country. Without a way to earn a living, they go home and will not come back.

Also, any plan that attempts to thwart illegal immigration and does not include a provision to close our southern border is suspect in my book. That border should have been closed before the SAVE Act or any other legislation were ever discussed. I realize that makes too much sense so I will let it go as it's not going to happen.

Next, I know Mexico already has a National ID. Does Canada? Just wondering...

With all that being said, I would reluctantly support the SAVE Act since it may be the last chance we have to fight this illegal invasion that is destroying this country. I honestly believe time is of the essence now and if things continue the way they are, another 5-10 years may be too late. We need to do something now! I'm willing to give my government one more chance to get this right and actually do what they promised to do.

I still believe there are plenty of laws on the books currently that could sufficiently deal with illegal invaders. The real problem is that in to many jurisdictions across this country, elected officials have adopted a "sanctuary" mindset.

Is the SAVE Act going to cure that perverse malady?