Thread: Spying on Americans More Widespread Than Acknowledged

Originally Posted by dman1200

So....there really is a Boogey Man!

No, just a bunch of inmates running the asylum called our federal government, but yeah they do look scarey enough to be mistaken for boogey men from time to time.

I'll say this again as I hinted on the other thread...I smell a ploy here...

Again, old news regarding eavedropping of one country's citizens by another for the country concerned...

But here is what is really making me scratch my head...so far the articles are vaque or non-specific as to how exactly monitoring is occurring on a . . .

NOW READ CAREFULLY SO YOU DON'T MISREPRESENT ME

. . . case by case basis.

In other words, I'd like to see a breakdown case by case and then tallied to give us hardcore numbers...

Here's a matrix I'd like to see:



US Citizen UK Citizen NZ Citizen AU Citizen IS Citizen

US Ag/Tel

UK Ag/Tel

NZ Ag/Tel

AU Ag/Tel

IS Ag/Tel



Repeat the above matrix for those on "green cards".

Repeat again for those on "student VISAs".


I wonder if the vagueness in detail is another bait tossed to Democrats as another move to embarrass them before the 2008 campaign begins with the start of the new year.

It would prove embarrassing if the Democrats bit and pressed charges only to be told in the public media:

"Well our allies are only doing their diplomatic duty to inform us of harm intended to us by our citizens travelling/operating abroad as a result of monitoring for their national security purposes those who have no rights as guests in their countries..."


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I highly doubt that the vagueness in detail is anything other than this administration's underhanded tactics of spying on American citizens. WHY would they ADMIT who they were wiretapping or data mining?

Originally Posted by Bootsie

I highly doubt that the vagueness in detail is anything other than this administration's underhanded tactics of spying on American citizens. WHY would they ADMIT who they were wiretapping or data mining?

Hence the ploy Bootsie...

Think back how many times Bush/Rove/Cheney were caught up in something as a result of their "general" admission...and upon Democrat response then fed the details - which in turn made the Democrats take cover...

From what I've heard...Bush played the same ploys quite well while Governor of Texas.



So I suggest a caution of "wait and see" on this story...

Originally Posted by Bootsie

I highly doubt that the vagueness in detail is anything other than this administration's underhanded tactics of spying on American citizens. WHY would they ADMIT who they were wiretapping or data mining?

Exactly. Sounds like MrRabbit is drunk on the Bush kool aide. Notice how he comes across as arrogant and condescending toward our point of view? This administration has lied so many times to the American people that how can we know their intentions are sincere? This administration always uses 9-11 as an angle to push whatever agenda they want and they always seem to cover up any evidence that would expose them. Anytime somebody asks this administration for certain evidence that would lead to the truth about something this administration always has an excuse to hide such evidence. Well something tells me that if someone doesn't want you to see something then they must have something to hide.

So why not show us some evidence to the truth about this spying stuff and explain to us exactly why you need to spy on American citizens. If you have nothing to hide then lets see what ya got. I understand about classified info and not going into every little detail, but at least give us a general idea of what the heck your doing and why and there is a way you can do that without spilling the beans on critical info. It's the secretive way this administration does crap that makes me and many others suspicous to what they are doing. This administration has an insecurity problem for sure.

This administration is secretive about everything until they are caught red-handed, then they lie about it and try to blame someone else.

They are nothing but a two-faced deceitful traitorous gang of thugs beset with incurable irreversible dementia.

Originally Posted by dman1200

Originally Posted by Bootsie

I highly doubt that the vagueness in detail is anything other than this administration's underhanded tactics of spying on American citizens. WHY would they ADMIT who they were wiretapping or data mining?

Exactly. Sounds like MrRabbit is drunk on the Bush kool aide. Notice how he comes across as arrogant and condescending toward our point of view? This administration has lied so many times to the American people that how can we know their intentions are sincere? This administration always uses 9-11 as an angle to push whatever agenda they want and they always seem to cover up any evidence that would expose them. Anytime somebody asks this administration for certain evidence that would lead to the truth about something this administration always has an excuse to hide such evidence. Well something tells me that if someone doesn't want you to see something then they must have something to hide.

So why not show us some evidence to the truth about this spying stuff and explain to us exactly why you need to spy on American citizens. If you have nothing to hide then lets see what ya got. I understand about classified info and not going into every little detail, but at least give us a general idea of what the heck your doing and why and there is a way you can do that without spilling the beans on critical info. It's the secretive way this administration does crap that makes me and many others suspicous to what they are doing. This administration has an insecurity problem for sure.

1. You clearly did not read my posts, nor have you read my posts in other threads.

2. Read the Alipac response in the previous thread that went 8-9 pages.



For Judy and Bootsie...

I guess we can say for the NYT and probably most print news:

"All the news that is paid to spin."

Details are always wanting and you can never be sure who is feeding 'em.

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Guess the blogs will continue to roll...

mrrabbit-- if you want to believe this is some "GRAND SCHEME" by Bush and Company, go for it. My opinion is that dman and Judy are representative of the MAJORITY of Republicans--NOT DEMOCRATS--who see this administration as a bunch of lying, low-down, underhanded, secretive, power-hungry VILLAINS. Frankly, what the Democrats DO with this information is of NO CONCERN to me. WHAT IS of concern to me is what THE AMERICAN PEOPLE do with this information. I don't think there are many Americans who don't have a SERIOUS PROBLEM with this kind of tactic. You want to BELIEVE this is just stuff the administration is LEAKING to get a rise out of Democrats and I think you are in LA LA LAND. The FISA Court Justice has had to take the DRASTIC, unprecedented action of having a Justice Department official swear UNDER OATH that requests for warrants submitted by this administration were not acquired by illegal means. One Judge has already resigned because of the abuse of the FISA court perpetrated by this administration. IF BUSH/ROVE/CHENEY thought they would leak this information in order to make the Democrats dig themselves into a hole, they are even STUPIDER than I thought.

Personally, I think you are not only intoxicated on the Bush Kool-Aid. You are also looking at that crooked bunch through rose-colored glasses. You really need to put the glass down and take the GLASSES off.

Personally, I think you are not only intoxicated on the Bush Kool-Aid. You are also looking at that crooked bunch through rose-colored glasses. You really need to put the glass down and take the GLASSES off.

Okay...I've had enough of such comments...so I am going to say this one last time:

SOME OF YOU ARE CLEARLY NOT READING AND/OR COMPREHENDING MY POSTS AND ARE THEREFORE MISREPRESENTING ME AS A RESULT.






...see below for helpful hint....







BA Political Science
3 years Grad school in Pol Sci / History / Education
Indpendent - Never registered with any party - don't care for 'em either.
Stay-At-Home Dad
Own own business
IT Engineer
Federal Government employee
Loves hardcore facts and numbers sourced from primary sources - which almost always is not provided in the latest "news" a.k.a. "spin" or propaganda.

Hope that helps...

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If all you folks want to do is PAINT...then don't bother replying to my posts in such a manner. It is not civil nor promotes a discussion. Just ignore me instead...save your fingers...

Well, here is my 2 cents on the Matter. Since it came out. I have been really watching other area's. Say it's my gut feeling. But it came out to easily and was admitted to way to easily. It's almost like we should be looking for something else. That is slipping right past us, like a ship in the night. Just the ole gut speaking to me.