Thread: Tax Foundation: 'Avoiding Tax Reform is No Longer an Option'

I'm only going to copy an excerpt from
http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_b...t_fair_tax.pdf but I suggest any interested read the full article:

excerpt:

Bartlett argues that the FairTax is deeply flawed and has been systematically misrepresented by its supporters. Quite apart from the fact that there is zero chance that Congress would ever enact it, it is clear,writes Bartlett, that the FairTax simply would notwork at all if it were tried, which is why no country has ever attempted to collect all its revenue from a retail sales tax.

http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_b...t_fair_tax.pdf

The prebate is just not necessary - and again, seems like pandering, but actually it is just a sneaky way to keep tabs on people. It's a string so they can keep track of you.

I don't know, but I'm assuming states don't 'prebate' sales tax. If they do in Texas, I don't know about it and haven't ever received it.

First off, cut government back by 20% this year and another 20% next year, send the illegals home, stop immigration of those who will not be able to support themselves.

Let's rethink all the wonderful 'gimme' programs.

Student loans have become a joke and a horrible burden on those who actually attempt to repay them.

Top the 'set asides' politicians get. These are nothing more than taxpayer dollars being used to repay contributors. Just stop it. It is not the job of the taxpayers to build jogging paths, museums, buy sculpture, etc., etc.

Stop all foreign aid, except actually emergency aid directly to the people - not handing out monies to NGO's - directly to the people.

Stop all the insane wars. We have no business interfering, much less fighting, in other countries' business. Countries have a right to operate as they see fit, whether we agree or not.

Either get out or cut back on NATO.

Close those bases around the world - we shouldn't be there. It is not our job to dictate to anyone or operate 'outposts' just in case countries don't do as we like. Bring them home, put them on our border. How much does it cost to maintain those bases? Suppose the military salaries spent in those countries, were being spent in this country?

Now if we make the government's functions only what it should be, the amount of the Fair Tax could be a lot lower than what they are suggesting.

The idea is to get rid of the IRS. All that is needed is a small bureaucracy to collate the monies. That way the government has no idea how much money you, personally, spend - where you spend it. Now that's staying out of personal business.

Originally Posted by MW

Here's someone like you, Judy, that once believed in the Fair Tax scam:

http://fairtaxgoofy.blogspot.com/

No, no one who understood the FairTax to begin with wrote that goofy website. Government pays FairTax on its final consumption because it currently pays income tax on all of its expenses. Government at all levels pays less tax on new goods and services than it presently pays in income taxes.

Every payroll government makes, every product it buys, and consultant it pays, includes all the income tax that comes from that payroll, sale and consultant and contractor it pays. There is no "fine print" in the FairTax legislation. It's all written in the same font size.

This person if they were a FairTax supporter to begin with, which I doubt, would never be upset because FairTax is collected on goods and services, not payrolls, not government to government transactions, but final point of sale new goods and services, because it should be. This doesn't raise your state, local or federal taxes, in fact, they'll probably go down because the FairTax taxes only new goods and services whereas the income tax taxed it all.

Originally Posted by MW

I'm only going to copy an excerpt from
http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_b...t_fair_tax.pdf but I suggest any interested read the full article:

excerpt:

Bartlett argues that the FairTax is deeply flawed and has been systematically misrepresented by its supporters. Quite apart from the fact that there is zero chance that Congress would ever enact it, it is clear,writes Bartlett, that the FairTax simply would notwork at all if it were tried, which is why no country has ever attempted to collect all its revenue from a retail sales tax.

http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_b...t_fair_tax.pdf

Well, that sure doesn't sound like a FairTax supporter to me. It sounds like an anti-FairTax person to me.

Originally Posted by nntrixie

The prebate is just not necessary - and again, seems like pandering, but actually it is just a sneaky way to keep tabs on people. It's a string so they can keep track of you.

I don't know, but I'm assuming states don't 'prebate' sales tax. If they do in Texas, I don't know about it and haven't ever received it.

First off, cut government back by 20% this year and another 20% next year, send the illegals home, stop immigration of those who will not be able to support themselves.

Let's rethink all the wonderful 'gimme' programs.

Student loans have become a joke and a horrible burden on those who actually attempt to repay them.

Top the 'set asides' politicians get. These are nothing more than taxpayer dollars being used to repay contributors. Just stop it. It is not the job of the taxpayers to build jogging paths, museums, buy sculpture, etc., etc.

Stop all foreign aid, except actually emergency aid directly to the people - not handing out monies to NGO's - directly to the people.

Stop all the insane wars. We have no business interfering, much less fighting, in other countries' business. Countries have a right to operate as they see fit, whether we agree or not.

Either get out or cut back on NATO.

Close those bases around the world - we shouldn't be there. It is not our job to dictate to anyone or operate 'outposts' just in case countries don't do as we like. Bring them home, put them on our border. How much does it cost to maintain those bases? Suppose the military salaries spent in those countries, were being spent in this country?

Now if we make the government's functions only what it should be, the amount of the Fair Tax could be a lot lower than what they are suggesting.

The idea is to get rid of the IRS. All that is needed is a small bureaucracy to collate the monies. That way the government has no idea how much money you, personally, spend - where you spend it. Now that's staying out of personal business.

I wouldn't personally sign up for the Rebate. But I think a lot of people will and they'll want it just like they want the personal and dependent deductions on their income tax. Personally, I would prefer no Prebate/Rebate and a 20% rate instead of 23% and have the split be 8.09% for Social Security and Medicare (same as now in the bill) and reduce the General Revenue Rate from 14.91% to 11.91%.

Originally Posted by MW

Here's another person that initially thought the so-called Fair Tax plan was a winner, but after more research discovered it was a loser:

https://hereticaldruthers.wordpress....is-regressive/

No, they just discovered that they don't understand taxation or economics, a fatal combination, that has put us $20 trillion in debt and growing. So keep listening to the people whose ideas and attitudes apparently like yours that have put us in this mess to begin with come hell or high water they will not let go of their beloved income tax, doing everything they can every single year to make sure they pay less so someone else has to pay more. It's the road to bankruptcy of a nation, oh hello!, it's the road to lost manufacturing, well howdy!, it's the road to immigration for cheap labor, well my lord we've sure got more than we need of that!, and maintaining the status quo instead of solving problems.

It's sad to see people in our country reject the single best economic development proposal ever presented to the American People because they're so scared they'll lose their opportunity to cheat someone else to pay less by making them pay more or running up the national debt. What Americans will spend this year preparing income taxes would have paid for Trump's wall, all the increases in immigration enforcement, plus 3 years of his infrastructure plans. The FairTax puts illegal aliens at a huge comparative disadvantage because they aren't eligible for the Rebate but pay all FairTaxes on new goods and services they purchase here. The FairTax charges imports the same as domestic companies and corrects the present inequity of free trade treason and does so without confrontation.

What seems so simple to me, which it really is, because complicated for people who want to say well how much do the "rich pay", how much do the poor get with the Prebate? Under the FairTax everyone pays the same, every citizen and legal resident are eligible for the same Prebate/Rebate if they want it. Under the FairTax our businesses and workers are free and citizens and legal residents pay only when they choose to buy new goods and services, essentials offset by the Prebate/Rebate if they want to sign up for it.

Nothing could be more fair, nothing could be simpler, and not one piece of legislation will ever do more for our country, citizens and economy than passing the FairTax.

After more research folks seem to be flipping yes to no on the unfair tax plan. Perhaps one day you too will come to the realization that the plan is damaged goods and will never pass muster.

I'd like to have a a penny for every minute you've spent attempting to prop up this bad plan that will never get voted into law.

I like the plan, and totally 100% support it. Like nntrixie, I would prefer doing away with the Prebate/Rebate and having a lower tax rate of say 20% instead of the 23%, but for those people who want a Rebate on their essentials to exempt them from the tax, I have no problem with that either. It's voluntary, no one has to sign up for it. So if they want to give Social Security Administration their information and sign up for the household rebate, I've no problem with that. Everything else in the bill I support 100%. It's an easy peasy very convenience system for the retail businesses for which they're compensated, and for everyone else, it's absolute bliss with a rebate or without, either way.

Originally Posted by Judy

I like the plan, and totally 100% support it. Like nntrixie, I would prefer doing away with the Prebate/Rebate and having a lower tax rate of say 20% instead of the 23%, but for those people who want a Rebate on their essentials to exempt them from the tax, I have no problem with that either. It's voluntary, no one has to sign up for it. So if they want to give Social Security Administration their information and sign up for the household rebate, I've no problem with that. Everything else in the bill I support 100%. It's an easy peasy very convenience system for the retail businesses for which they're compensated, and for everyone else, it's absolute bliss with a rebate or without, either way.

From everything I've read the tax rate under the unfair tax is 30%, not 23%. Of course fuzzy math is just another misleading talking point for those pushing the plan.

Well, it's not fuzzy math, it's the same way tax rates are calculcated on the income tax. You've never complained about that, so why complain about this? It's the difference between an inclusive rate and exclusive rate. The FairTax is inclusive and is already included in the price of your new goods and services, it's not added on. Just like the income tax is included in your salary, your expenses, your purchases, everything you receive and spend and is not added on. State sales taxes are exclusive and added on to your price.

The FairTax rate is 23% by statute. If you sell $100 worth of new goods, in that price is 23% FairTax, so you send the state $23, not $30. If you sell $77 worth of new goods before tax, then you add on $23 for FairTax. $23 is 30% of $77 but 23% of the total of $100 which is the amount of the sale. Same with your salary under the income tax. You don't add on 25% for your income taxes, it's already in your salary and then they withhold it or you send it in. If you earn $100,000 a year and you're in a 25% tax bracket, you pay $25,000 in income tax. But if you only earn $75,000 before tax, and you are in a 25% tax bracket, then you add on 33% of 75,000 to have $100,000 for which you pay a 25% income tax rate.

It's not fuzzy math at all. It's just that people who don't understand math are easily fooled into thinking they're being cheated somehow by the Anti-Fairtax Lobby, most of whom do tax returns and know how stupid most Americans are when it comes to taxation so a lot of people are easy targets.

It's like people think OH MY GOD I'll be paying 23% more for my stuff. LOL!! No, you'll be paying the same or less, the difference is you have to spend 6.1 billion hours or $234 billion a year in lost productivity and direct costs to enrich other people in the tax industry to pay it now under the income tax or be free of all that with the FairTax.