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Thread: The Ted Cruz’s Establishment friendly tax plan

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  1. #1
    Senior Member johnwk's Avatar
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    The Ted Cruz’s Establishment friendly tax plan

    See: The Simple Flat Tax Plan


    ”Imagine a 10 percent income tax, with every American filling out his or her taxes on a postcard or iPhone app. And abolishing the IRS as we know it.” – Ted Cruz


    Well, I have imagined Cruz’s tax plan, and it is the same old Washington pig, cleverly disguised in a new shade of lipstick!


    It is absolutely amazing that Ted Cruz, who constantly whines that our federal government has gotten out of control; that we need to close down the IRS; and that our Washington Elite protects the tax code; would panhandle tax reform which keeps alive the very vehicle [income taxation] which is used to inflict the miseries he complains of.


    Is Senator Cruz not smart enough to conclude America’s experiment with the socialist inspired federal tax calculated from “incomes”, opened the door to countless sufferings carried out under the guise of “income taxation”? Apparently not! The fact is, under Ted Cruz’s tax plan, which keeps alive a federal tax calculated from incomes, allows Washington’s elites to continue to define what is and what is not “taxable” income, and in turn allows perfidious manipulations in which winners and losers can be determined by a stroke Congress’ pen.


    Ted Cruz’s plan also keeps alive the federal government’s open door intrusion into our personal lives and financial affairs; the power to audit and harass private individuals and businesses at will who are viewed as political opponents; the needless waste of billions of dollars to keep records and reports for the federal government, not to mention the loss of precious man hours. And all this suffering does not even take into account that Cruz’s tax plan is unequal taxation in that the most productive citizens are compelled to contribute more to the federal government than the least productive, while some are even allowed to escape the burden of supporting our federal government. But this is what socialism and communism is about ___ from each according to their ability, to each according to their need. And this is what Cruz’s well-dressed pig is ___ redistribution of wealth and maintaining the federal government’s iron fist around the necks of the American People.


    But let us not forget that Chris Christie, Marco Rubio, Jeb Bush, Ben Carson, and John Kasich also support keeping alive Congress’ power to lay and collect taxes calculated from incomes. And they reject, or perhaps foolishly ignore our Constitution’s original tax plan which allowed for indirect taxation ___ imposts, duties, internal excise taxes on articles of consumption ___ and a direct apportioned tax among the states if an emergency occurred or was needed to extinguish an annual deficit and thereby balance the budget on an annual basis.


    It is so sad to see there is not one self-anointed “conservative” running to be our next President who is willing to even discuss the wisdom and merits of our Constitution’s ORIGINAL TAX PLAN


    JWK




    “Honest money and honest taxation, the Key to America’s future Prosperity“ ___ from “Prosperity Restored by the State Rate Tax Plan”, no longer in print.


  2. #2
    MW
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    But let us not forget that Chris Christie, Marco Rubio, Jeb Bush, Ben Carson, and John Kasich also support keeping alive Congress’ power to lay and collect taxes calculated from incomes.
    Did you forget to add someone to the list? Why does Trump's tax plan get a pass in your criticism?
    Last edited by MW; 01-21-2016 at 11:53 AM.

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    Senior Member johnwk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MW View Post
    Did you forget to add someone to the list? Why does Trump's tax plan get a pass in your criticism?
    I haven't heard any specifics yet. If he also promotes the income tax, he too would be panhandling the Establishment's love affair with a socialist friendly tax idea.

    JWK

    P.S. I just found his plan, and indeed he promotes the Establishment friendly and socialist income tax!

    https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions/tax-reform
    Last edited by johnwk; 01-21-2016 at 01:24 PM.

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    Senior Member johnwk's Avatar
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    Here is real tax reform: The fair share balanced budget amendment

    Let us take a look at the wisdom and brilliance of our Founder's original tax plan which is proposed as follows.


    The Fair Share Balanced Budget Amendment


    “SECTION 1. The Sixteenth Amendment is hereby repealed and Congress is henceforth forbidden to lay ``any`` tax or burden calculated from profits, gains, interest, salaries, wages, tips, inheritances or any other lawfully realized money.


    NOTE: these words would return us to our founding father’s ORIGINAL TAX PLAN as they intended it to operate! They would also end the failed experiment with allowing Congress to lay and collect taxes calculated from lawfully earned "incomes" which now oppresses America‘s economic engine and robs the bread which working people have earned when selling their labor!


    "SECTION 2. Congress ought not raise money by borrowing, but when the money arising from imposts duties and excise taxes are insufficient to meet the public exigencies, and Congress has raised money by borrowing during the course of a fiscal year, Congress shall then lay a direct tax at the beginning of the next fiscal year for an amount sufficient to extinguish the preceding fiscal year's deficit, and apply the revenue so raised to extinguishing said deficit."


    NOTE: Congress is to raise its primary revenue from imposts and duties, [taxes at our water’s edge], and may also lay miscellaneous internal excise taxes on specifically chosen articles of consumption. But if Congress borrows and spends more than is brought in from imposts, duties and miscellaneous excise taxes during the course of a fiscal year, then, and only then, is the apportioned tax to be laid.


    "SECTION 3. When Congress is required to lay a direct tax in accordance with Section 1 of this Article, the Secretary of the United States Treasury shall, in a timely manner, calculate each State's apportioned share of the total sum being raised by dividing its total population size by the total population of the united states and multiplying that figure by the total being raised by Congress, and then provide the various State Congressional Delegations with a Bill notifying their State’s Executive and Legislature of its share of the total tax being collected and a final date by which said tax shall be paid into the United States Treasury."


    NOTE: our founder’s fair share formula to extinguish an annual deficit would be:


    States’ population

    ---------------------------- X SUM TO BE RAISED = STATE’S FAIR SHARE

    Total U.S. Population


    The above formula, as intended by our founding fathers, is to insure that those states who contribute the lion’s share of the tax are guaranteed a representation in Congress proportionately equal to their contribution, i.e., representation with a proportional financial obligation!



    Note also that each State’s number or Representatives, under our Constitution is determined by the rule of apportionment:


    State`s Pop.
    ------------------- X House size (435) = State`s No. of Representatives
    U.S. Pop.



    "SECTION 4. Each State shall be free to assume and pay its quota of the direct tax into the United States Treasury by a final date set by Congress, but if any State shall refuse or neglect to pay its quota, then Congress shall send forth its officers to assess and levy such State's proportion against the real property within the State with interest thereon at the rate of ((?)) per cent per annum, and against the individual owners of the taxable property. Provision shall be made for a 15% discount for those States paying their share by ((?))of the fiscal year in which the tax is laid, and a 10% discount for States paying by the final date set by Congress, such discount being to defray the States' cost of collection."


    NOTE: This section respects the Tenth Amendment and allows each state to raise its share in its own chosen way in a time period set by Congress, but also allows the federal government to enter a state and collect the tax if a state is delinquent in meeting its obligation.


    "SECTION 5. This Amendment to the Constitution, when ratified by the required number of States, shall take effect no later than (?) years after the required number of States have ratified it.


    JWK


    “…..with all these blessings, what more is necessary to make us a happy and a prosperous people? Still one thing more, fellow-citizens—a wise and frugal Government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government, and this is necessary to close the circle of our felicities“. Thomas Jefferson, First Inaugural Address

  5. #5
    MW
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    I have no problem with you critiquing someones tax plan, I'm just a little confused as to why you singled in on Cruz plan while giving Trump a pass.

    "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing" ** Edmund Burke**

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    Senior Member johnwk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MW View Post
    I have no problem with you critiquing someones tax plan, I'm just a little confused as to why you singled in on Cruz plan while giving Trump a pass.
    Actually, I also drew attention to Chris Christie, Marco Rubio, Jeb Bush, Ben Carson, and John Kasich for also proposing to keep alive Congress’ power to lay and collect taxes calculated from incomes.

    In regard to Trump, I didn't realize he finally put out the details of his tax plan.

    What bothers me about Cruz is, I mailed him one of the few remaining copies I have of "Prosperity Restored by the State Rate Tax Plan" about a year ago but never received any response. The book lays out our Constitution's original tax plan and provides a wealth of documentation.


    JWK
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    Senior Member Judy's Avatar
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    Johnwk, your plan giving federal government the authority to foreclose on people's homes and businesses is not the freedom and solution we seek. The only replacement tax plan that restores liberty while still paying the bills is the FairTax plan that's a voluntary tax, one people pay by choice. This is the plan Trump likes and has said so publicly, and stated the reason he didn't propose it during the campaign is that he thought it would take longer to implement than reducing tax rates and removing the loophole for Hedge Funds. Maybe he thinks he could get that done in his first year whereas the FairTax might take longer to pass because of the big wealthy anti-FairTax lobby, and does have a 1 year implementation plan versus months under his plan.
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    Senior Member johnwk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Judy View Post
    Johnwk, your plan giving federal government the authority to foreclose on people's homes and businesses is not the freedom and solution we seek. .
    Judy,

    With all due respect, what I support is our Constitution's original tax plan as it was intended to operate by our founders.


    JWK

    “The proportion of taxes are fixed by the number of inhabitants, and not regulated by the extent of the territory, or fertility of soil”3 Elliot’s, 243,“Each state will know, from its population, its proportion of any general tax” 3 Elliot’s, 244 ___ Mr. George Nicholas, during the ratification debates of our Constitution.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Judy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnwk View Post
    Judy,

    With all due respect, what I support is our Constitution's original tax plan as it was intended to operate by our founders.


    JWK

    “The proportion of taxes are fixed by the number of inhabitants, and not regulated by the extent of the territory, or fertility of soil”3 Elliot’s, 243,“Each state will know, from its population, its proportion of any general tax” 3 Elliot’s, 244 ___ Mr. George Nicholas, during the ratification debates of our Constitution.
    I'm referring to this part of your post:

    "SECTION 4. Each State shall be free to assume and pay its quota of the direct tax into the United States Treasury by a final date set by Congress, but if any State shall refuse or neglect to pay its quota, then Congress shall send forth its officers to assess and levy such State's proportion against the real property within the State with interest thereon at the rate of ((?)) per cent per annum, and against the individual owners of the taxable property. Provision shall be made for a 15% discount for those States paying their share by ((?))of the fiscal year in which the tax is laid, and a 10% discount for States paying by the final date set by Congress, such discount being to defray the States' cost of collection."
    States can raise the money anyway they want but if they don't, under your plan the US government can ride in, demand liens on property owners, and if not paid foreclose on the property, the same way counties do. If States used property taxes to raise their "fair share", they would have the same right. This is not freedom. This is the epitome of socialist communism. The fact that counties can and states can do this now for their own accounts is outrageous. This is not freedom, this is tax tyranny.

    The Constitution has been seriously amended since the Founding Fathers wrote the Constitution. Under the Original Constitution, States elected US Senators to represent the States interests. Today, that is no longer the case. Today, there is no one representing the States interests or the citizens therein.

    Think about the impact of this significant change to our Republic by that amendment and how it impacts a tax plan including the Fair Share Tax Plan you promote, then compare it to the FairTax and think about which one you think restores liberty and personal freedom.

    Thanks! I look forward to your thoughts on this point.
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  10. #10
    MW
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    Quote Originally Posted by Judy View Post
    Johnwk, your plan giving federal government the authority to foreclose on people's homes and businesses is not the freedom and solution we seek. The only replacement tax plan that restores liberty while still paying the bills is the FairTax plan that's a voluntary tax, one people pay by choice. This is the plan Trump likes and has said so publicly, and stated the reason he didn't propose it during the campaign is that he thought it would take longer to implement than reducing tax rates and removing the loophole for Hedge Funds. Maybe he thinks he could get that done in his first year whereas the FairTax might take longer to pass because of the big wealthy anti-FairTax lobby, and does have a 1 year implementation plan versus months under his plan.
    If Trump liked the so-called fair tax as you proclaim and had the guts you think he has, he would push the plan. However, Trump is smart enough to know the plan is a non-starter and that it would be virtually impossible to get it passed.

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