Thread: Trump Says Abortion Ban Should Yield 'Punishment' for Woman

Trump Says Abortion Ban Should Yield 'Punishment' for Woman

• By TODD RICHMOND, ASSOCIATED PRESS

GREEN BAY, Wis. — Mar 30, 2016, 3:38 PM ET


Republican presidential front-runner Donald Trump said Wednesday that women who get abortions should receive "some form of punishment" if abortion is banned, without elaborating on what that punishment should be.

In a heated exchange with MSNBC host Chris Matthews at the taping of a town hall in Green Bay, Wisconsin, Trump described himself as "pro-life with three exceptions." He has said many times that he is in favor of exceptions in the case of rape, incest and when the life of the mother is at risk.

When asked whether abortion should be banned, Trump replied, "There has to be some form of punishment."

Pressed by Matthews on the nature of that punishment, Trump responded, "I haven't determined what the punishment should be."

Trump has been criticized by some conservatives for his flip-flop on the issue of abortion, and has said that his stance has evolved. At a Fox News debate last August, Trump said: "I've evolved on many issues over the years. ... Ronald Reagan evolved on many issues."

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireS...woman-38037294

That's pretty weird. I don't think anyone is injured when a woman gets an abortion. The contents of a woman's uterus does not qualify as a person in any moral or legal sense as far as I am concerned.

But this doesn't even slow me down, he still has my unwavering support.

The abortion issue as a political football is moot as far as I am concern. Why doesn't the practice of performing transgender surgery on children (almost always males) provoke the same outrage as abortion? Very, very strange.

I'm Pro-Choice and of course vehemently disagree with Trump and others on this. What he's saying is if abortions were ever outlawed and made illegal under the law, then it just goes with the territory that there would be some penalty or punishment to go with it, otherwise there would be no point to the law.

Americans who want to ban abortions in the United States, really really need to re-think this agenda. It's not fair or right to put pregnant girls and women who want and need to terminate these pregnancies in this type of peril. Their lives matter, their happiness matters, their dreams matter, so do their choices on such an important aspect of their lives and they are the ones best suited to make those decisions without interference, pressure, stigma or peril at the hand of any government.

I hope the Republican National Convention Platform Committee realizes, they will not win another election with their anti-abortion platform. It cost Mitt Romney the election and it will cost any candidate except Trump the election. And if Trump goes full distance on this, it will cost him the election.

Trump Advocates Abortion Ban, Walks Back 'Punishment' for Women Remark

by ALI VITALI

GREEN BAY, Wisc. — After saying on Wednesday that he believes there should be punishment for women who undergo abortions if the procedure was outlawed, Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump walked back the comment hours later.
In an exclusive interview with MSNBC's Chris Matthews, the GOP front-runner described himself multiple times as "pro-life" but struggled to define what the legal ramifications of that position should be. When continually pressed for what the answer is regarding punishing women who would break any theoretical ban, Trump said the "answer is that there has to be some form of punishment, yeah."

Later in the day, his campaign released a statement refocusing who would be punished should abortion become illegal. "If Congress were to pass legislation making abortion illegal and the federal courts upheld this legislation, or any state were permitted to ban abortion under state and federal law, the doctor or any other person performing this illegal act upon a woman would be held legally responsible, not the woman," the statement said. "The woman is a victim in this case as is the life in her womb. My position has not changed — like Ronald Reagan, I am pro-life with exceptions."

When asked what kind of punishment he had in mind, Trump lacked specifics and said that he has "not determined what the punishment would be." Trump noted that he does "take positions on everything else, but this is a very complicated position."
"If you say abortion is a crime or abortion is murder, you have to deal with it under the law," Matthews stated, making the pivot from the moral position of being pro-life to the practical implications of implementing that position in the law.

Trump asked Matthews, "are you going to say, well wait, are you going to say put them in jail? Is that the punishment you're talking about?"

Matthews responded that that's the question he was asking the front-runner himself. Trump responded that he was pro-life.
The MSNBC host followed up wondering if a man should bear responsibility for abortions as well, to which Trump said "no," he didn't think so.

Trump asked repeatedly about the Catholic church's position on abortion, at multiple points trying to turn the questions on the interviewer himself in relation to how he squared the moral position of the church with the real life implications.

Should the United States change the law of the land on abortion as set by the landmark SCOTUS ruling Roe vs Wade Trump said, "you'll go back to a position like they had where people will, perhaps, go to illegal places." Still, he maintains "you have to ban it."
Ohio Republican John Kasich, who participated in an MSNBC town hall moderated by NBC's Chuck Todd earlier in the day, was asked if he agreed with Trump on the prospect of punishing women for abortion. "Absolutely not," Kasich responded. "I do have exceptions for rape, incest and life of the mother but of course women shouldn't be punished," he added.

In Wednesday's town hall meeting, Trump also continued the defense of his campaign manager Corey Lewandowski, saying that he didn't think an initial apology from his campaign manager would've changed the current situation.

"I think if he called up to apologize I think we'd be in the exact same place," he told Matthews, wondering if Lewandowski may have even apologized in the moment. "They're destroying a very good person…over nothing" Trump said. "He's a good person with a wonderful family."

Trump called the incident in question "so minor" before continuing to discredit former Brietbart reporter Michelle Fields by attacking the premise of her story. "What's contact?" he hedged, noting that her facial expression didn't change despite saying she was almost pulled to the ground by Lewandowski. Trump later added that he was "skeptical" about her.

The GOP front-runner says "nobody respects women" more than he does. That respect, however, doesn't necessarily translate to Fields. "I would say I don't have great respect for her," Trump told Matthews. He also dodged when asked why he didn't have sympathy for Fields, instead pointing out that the tape being used by the police investigation was his tape and saying that there are more pressing issues at play, like ISIS and foreign threats.

As he's said before, Trump alleged that Fields touched him twice and questioned if he should even go so far as to press charges against her. He once again posited that she was breaking the rules as the press conference was over and she was still trying to ask questions by dogging him as he left the room.

Trump also called out the Jupiter Police, saying that "what they've done is, I think, outrageous.

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016...person-n548036

Donald Trump walks back statement saying ban on abortion should include 'some form of punishment' for women

Allan Smith
2h May 30, 2016

Donald Trump abruptly reversed course Wednesday, after he caused a firestorm by suggesting that women should be punished for having abortions in a hypothetical world in which the practice was made illegal in the US.

Trump's campaign released a statement Wednesday afternoon suggesting that women should not be held legally responsible for obtaining abortions if the practice were banned.

In the statement, he said:

If Congress were to pass legislation making abortion illegal and the federal courts upheld this legislation, or any state were permitted to ban abortion under state and federal law, the doctor or any other person performing this illegal act upon a woman would be held legally responsible, not the woman.

The woman is a victim in this case as is the life in her womb. My position has not changed — like Ronald Reagan, I am pro-life with exceptions.

Hours earlier, the Republican presidential frontrunner inflamed controversy after after being repeatedly questioned on the subject of abortion by MSNBC's Chris Matthews during a pretaped town-hall event.

"There has to be some form of punishment," Trump said.

After Matthews asked Trump if he's for women being imprisoned for lengthy sentences, Trump said the exact punishment would be "something we have to decide on."

Trump said:

They've set the law and frankly the judges, you're going to have a very big election coming up for that reason because you have judges where it's a real tipping point and with the loss of [Antonin] Scalia, who was a very strong justice, this presidential election is going to be very important.

He added that the legality of abortion depends on the November election.

There is a vacancy on the Supreme Court, and the next president might have the opportunity to appoint several justices. In Roe v. Wade, the Supreme ruled in 1973 that women possess a constitutional right to have abortions.

"When you say what's the law, nobody knows what the law is going to be," Trump said Wednesday. "It depends on who gets elected."

Trump also said that he understood women would have to resort to going to "illegal places" to have an abortions should the law change, but "you have to ban it."

Roughly an hour later, Trump walked back his statement completely in a release. He said that, if abortion were banned, the person performing the abortion, and not the woman having one, would be held "legally responsible."

His statement to Matthews drew sharp rebuke from a number of advocates and politicians who support abortion rights. Democratic presidential candidates Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton called Trump's comments "shameful" and "horrific," respectively.

http://www.businessinsider.com/donal...ortions-2016-3

Thank you for clarifying and changing your position so that women are not in peril from prosecution by the government for doing what is best to themselves.

BUT, this is still wrong, because if pregnant girls and women who want to terminate a pregnancy do not have access to safe abortion providers, then they are still in peril because they will take matters into their own hands. They will try potions and coat-hangers and all types of horrible things that in most cases will either mutilate them, make them very ill and cause their deaths. The other alternative are illegal providers who provide the service illegally and there will also be lethal complications from infections and bleeding because they won't be able to run safe and proper clandestine clinics.

Our country has had legal abortions since 1974. 42 years. What has been the problem to society from that? Nothing. We have stronger women, more girls that can mature normally and pursue their lives. We have no shortage of population.

There is no public purpose to banning abortions. Meanwhile, our borders are open over-flowing with illegal aliens, we have 94 million adult age people without a job, and are being crushed under the weight of a $19 trillion and growing national debt. So it is not in the individual or public interest to pass any law that would force girls and women into childbirth against their will, whether through laws and punishment, or through lack of legal services.

My advice to Donald Trump, just say you're pro-life on a personal level and explain to those who ask that the abortion issue is settled law and your job as President of the United States will be to uphold that law. If and when that would change, and Congress passed a new law, then you would consider the legislation. Don't say you'd sign it because you may not want to sign that particular legislation.

Ted Cruz issues statement RIPPING Trump on abortion comment
Posted by The Right Scoop on Mar 30, 2016 at 5:37 PM in Politics | Leave a Comment

By The Right Scoop

FacebookTwitterGoogleEmail

Ted Cruz has just released a statement calling Trump out for his position on punishing women for abortions:

“Once again Donald Trump has demonstrated that he hasn’t seriously thought through the issues, and he’ll say anything just to get attention,” said Texas Sen. Ted Cruz, who opposes abortion rights.

“Of course we shouldn’t be talking about punishing women; we should affirm their dignity and the incredible gift they have to bring life into the world,” Cruz said.

Here’s the full statement from Twitter:

Sopan Deb Verified account
‏@SopanDeb

.@tedcruz statement on Trump's abortion comments:

(click on link below to read the full statement, for some reason it won't paste)

Read more: http://therightscoop.com/ted-cruz-is...#ixzz44QTbxYoc

Ted, it's not an "incredible gift" when it's unwanted, quite the contrary. There is no "digity" to an unwanted pregnancy whether by rape, incest, youth, inexperience, lack of contraception, lack of relationship with the man, lack of money, lack of desire. For most women facing an unwanted pregnancy, it's the worst thing that's ever happened to them.

Your statement shows a well-thought well-stated TOTAL LACK OF UNDERSTANDING of this issue. Most women will laugh and shout at Trump for his attempt to understand the pro-life position, which he really doesn't, because deep in my heart I don't think he would ever force or even want to force any woman in his family, wife, child or grandchild into childbirth against their will.

But unfortunately, to run on the Republican Ticket, one must to date try to be Pro-Life, even if in Trump's case, he's not even sure what it means. To him, it's a happy rich couple deciding to have a baby late in life and be joyous afterwards instead of having an abortion. But even then he forgets that at the time of that decision, they had a choice. For most other people, it is not and will not be a joyous afterwards, it will be a resented burden assuming the woman lives through it forced upon her by the government. There is no greater tyranny on girls and women than forced childbirth compelled by a government.

Again, Trump has raised a conversation in our party and one that is long over-due. So RUN TEDDY RUN, you've got the ball, show your stuff and may the wrath of Pro-Choice Americans cloud up and rain all over you.

Because for now, Trump has safely put himself on the bench having fouled out on the abortion issue proving that while he is Pro-Life himself personally, he has no clue what the right thing would be for the government to do to people who aren't, because there is no right thing to do..

Donald Trump's 3 positions on abortion in 3 hours

By Gregory Krieg, CNN
Updated 7:25 PM ET, Wed March 30, 2016 | Video Source: CNN

(CNN)Donald Trump sought to clarify, walk back, then seemingly reverse his position on punishing women who seek abortion procedures -- should they be legally banned -- over the course of a few hours Wednesday.

Here's what he said about it in just one day:

'Some form of punishment'

The GOP presidential front-runner's mad scramble began a little after he told MSNBC's Chris Matthews that abortion, if outlawed, should carry "some form of punishment."

When Matthews asked if that penalty should apply specifically to the woman, Trump replied: "Yes."

But he didn't elaborate on its nature except to say that men should not be held responsible.

READ: Trump struggles to clarify abortion remarks

The backlash was fast, angry and bipartisan.

Dawn Laguens from the Planned Parenthood Action Fund called Trump "flat-out dangerous," while Bernie Sanders ("Shameful") and Hillary Clinton ("Horrific and telling") tweeted their condemnations.

On the GOP side, John Kasich and Ted Cruz, who both favor strict anti-abortion laws, criticized Trump from the right, with the Texas senator accusing him of having damaged the cause, saying the billionaire "demonstrated that he hasn't seriously thought through the issues."

'This issue is unclear'

Trump spokeswoman Hope Hicks sent in a statement from Trump to reporters: "This issue is unclear and should be put back into the states for determination.

Like Ronald Reagan, I am pro-life with exceptions, which I have outlined numerous times."

Criticism, though, continued to come.

'The woman is a victim'

By a little before 5 p.m., Trump released another explanation -- marking an almost complete about-face.

"If Congress were to pass legislation making abortion illegal and the federal courts upheld this legislation, or any state were permitted to ban abortion under state and federal law, the doctor or any other person performing this illegal act upon a woman would be held legally responsible, not the woman," Trump said in a statement.

"The woman is a victim in this case as is the life in her womb," Trump said. "My position has not changed -- like Ronald Reagan, I am pro-life with exceptions."

http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/30/politi...ons/index.html

Yeah, he's all over the map. I think the interview and subsequent statements were clear that Trump is pro-life on a personal level but has no clear plan to involve government. And for me, that is the right position, so he needs to contemplate the difference between a personal Pro-Life belief and not get caught up in a legal agenda concerning it, because it's not a legal option at this point anyway. No President can "ban abortions", no President can punish anyone for having one or providing one.

Mr. Trump, you don't have to compete with Crazy Carly and Lyin' Ted on abortion rights to win this election, so try not to let any reporter put you in that trap. Take the same position on abortion rights as you did on gay rights, and you will win this election. Abortion rights are the law of the land, as President your obligation will be to uphold the law until such time as Courts and Congress would choose to change it.