Thread: Two birds, one stone

Originally Posted by Mamie

Originally Posted by badthingsman

I am not sure how understanding poverty has much to do with the issue. I think it would actually be more beneficial for more people to understand wealth. It is not and should not ever be the responsibility of the rich to financially support the poor. Why is it that some poor people bring themselves out of poverty while others continue as they are?

maybe I should have said they don't know the value of a dollar --- the point I was trying to make is the elite apparently have no problem selling out our country while the middle class and the poor won't. The elite want cheap labor to cut their lawns, wash their clothes and keep up the golf course . . . .

I myself have never been on welfare and don't think rich people are responsible for me -- 'the world doesn't owe me a living'

Everyone wants cheap labor. Everyone wants to get a good deal on a purchase. That's how the rich stay rich; they hold on to their money. They should not have to settle for a mediocre lawn job when they can get a great lawn job for less money. It is the fault of the government for allowing the illegals to compete in the market. We cannot force good morals on people, but we can uphold necessarily laws. That is the key.

IMHO, if these illegal immigrants become legal, they will just stop doing what they are doing and look for something that will pay them better, afterall they will have the right.

If you used to earn $3/hour because you are not allowed to get a $5 job, when you get the chance/right to get that $5/job, would you still continue to work for $3?

These people saying "let them stay, I don't want to be picking vegetable/fruits", does not understand that if these 11 million illegals stay and become legalized all at the same time, that there is a very big possibility that they might lose their jobs. It would be very naive to assume that these cheap laborers will continue to be cheap laborers after becoming legal, when the cheap laborers know they can get better paying jobs, jobs that are being held by citizens, or legal residents who went through the process and followed the law.

You know businesses do not have to pay the cost of cheap labor. When you actually look at cheap labor and the deal you think you are receiving think of this. Although this business is charging you ½ of the going rate what the actual cost of the job should be consider the increased taxes to you of putting the illegal’s kids through school which here in Oregon is about 8000 Per student. How about the unpaid medical they create through hospital visits they don’t pay for which is passed off to all through higher premiums to our employers who eventually will say enough is enough and quit paying insurance premiums. How about the fact that they contribute very little back into the community in dollars because they send it home and they do very little community service work. We pay increased auto insurance premiums from uninsured motorist’s accidents. We have not covered incarceration costs and added police costs from other illegal activity such as drugs and gangs. So I would have to say is that 50 % off your law care still a deal?

Originally Posted by 4legalimmigration

IMHO, if these illegal immigrants become legal, they will just stop doing what they are doing and look for something that will pay them better, afterall they will have the right.

If you used to earn $3/hour because you are not allowed to get a $5 job, when you get the chance/right to get that $5/job, would you still continue to work for $3?

These people saying "let them stay, I don't want to be picking vegetable/fruits", does not understand that if these 11 million illegals stay and become legalized all at the same time, that there is a very big possibility that they might lose their jobs. It would be very naive to assume that these cheap laborers will continue to be cheap laborers after becoming legal, when the cheap laborers know they can get better paying jobs, jobs that are being held by citizens, or legal residents who went through the process and followed the law.

I disagree. The economy does not produce jobs based on immigration status. Employers will not be in a position to offer higher wages simply because his workers have been legalized. The reason they have jobs in the first place is because they are willing to work for less wages. This will won’t change magically because of an Act of Congress. Furthermore, allowing certain sectors of the labor market to be illegally flooded with workers effects supply, thus lowering the price of labor. Anti-union conservatives should take note. The decline of American organized labor is largely responsible for the success of illegals. If companies were required to negotiate labor contracts, as they had for decades, there would be no room for illegals.

Originally Posted by nvxplorer

I disagree. The economy does not produce jobs based on immigration status. Employers will not be in a position to offer higher wages simply because his workers have been legalized. The reason they have jobs in the first place is because they are willing to work for less wages. This will won’t change magically because of an Act of Congress. Furthermore, allowing certain sectors of the labor market to be illegally flooded with workers effects supply, thus lowering the price of labor. Anti-union conservatives should take note. The decline of American organized labor is largely responsible for the success of illegals. If companies were required to negotiate labor contracts, as they had for decades, there would be no room for illegals.

You are right, the economy does not produce jobs based on immigration status. What I was referring to is rights. Illegal immigrants have to accept jobs where they will not be required to present documentation that allow them to work in the US, thus they accept jobs that pay less. Do you think that they will continue to work for less when they are legal and can accept work like any legal resident or citizen?

Originally Posted by 4legalimmigration

You are right, the economy does not produce jobs based on immigration status. What I was referring to is rights. Illegal immigrants have to accept jobs where they will not be required to present documentation that allow them to work in the US, thus they accept jobs that pay less. Do you think that they will continue to work for less when they are legal and can accept work like any legal resident or citizen?

Those jobs you speak of are a fraction of the total. There are tens of thousands of illegals in Northern Nevada. None are working in fields - there is no agriculture in Reno. They work in hotels, casinos, factories and warehouses. They all have forged/stolen documentation. The vast majority of illegals are not undocumented. They are fraudently documented. As you should know, the requirements for employers are abyssimal. Two pieces of readily forged documentation and a signed statement are all that is required.