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  1. #1
    Administrator ALIPAC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Gheen, Minnesota, United States

    Where are we at with the Senate Stim checks for illegals?


    I need to get an update out to our supporters about the campaign we launched to block stimulus checks from going to illegal aliens.

    Here is my understanding at this time, please correct me, fact check me, or update me so I can get the most current and accurate info out to our supporters.

    It is my understanding that the phones in the Senate and Congress started ringing off the hooks startling staffers.

    Some Congressional offices denied that their bill allowed illegals to receive stim checks?

    It was later determined that they had unintentionally left a loophole that would allow the checks to go to illegals?

    In the Senate, Senator Ensign attempted an amendment in committee that would close the loophole but his amend was shot down?

    Then Senator Grassley came out and acknowledge that the house had made a mistake and the Senate was going to fix that mistake by requiring a valid SS number to receive Stim checks?

    Is that about right? Is that where things are at?

    I need your help on this.

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  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    The word was that Ensigns amend was still in it to stop illegals from getting the checks , it was another Ensign amend that was shot down

    Its also my understanding that Reid put this whole debate on
    hold until next week

    We do need some acurate info on exactly where it stands right now
    there has been no further discussion of this on cable news that I have seen
    besides a report yesterday on Cavuto that they "took out giving it to illegals"

    I will watch for anything relavent on this today

  3. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Oregon (pronounced "ore-ee-gun")
    This might help (look for bold section near end)...
    FuseAction=PressReleases.Detail&PressRelease_id=d1 94e7c0-c68c-9390-d0a7-0df87d6524e5

    For Immediate Release
    January 31st, 2008


    Statement of Senator Chuck Grassley

    Floor Debate of Economic Stimulus Bill

    Thursday, January 31, 2008

    Mr. President, I want to start out by thanking Chairman Baucus for his courtesy, hard work, and patience in this legislative effort. As we have in the past, we wanted to process the economic stimulus issues, as we have always done in the past, through the committee. That process started shortly after this session of Congress opened. We talked substance and process. We had discussions with the Administration, especially Secretary Paulson. We had discussions with our leaders. We had two private meetings and took input from our committee members. We had two hearings on economic stimulus.

    Our goal was a bipartisan economic stimulus package. We both wanted a bipartisan economic stimulus package that responded to the needs of Americans and business and would provide a very much-needed boost for the economy.

    During the same period, the President sent a strong message that Congress must act and act quickly to design a fiscal stimulus plan aimed at boosting the economy. The President said that such a plan would provide a "shot in the arm" to keep the economy healthy.

    Last week, the bipartisan, bicameral congressional leadership met with the President. At that meeting, the Senate leaders, more or less, yielded the legislative process and substance on this important question to the House and the Senate. In other words, Senate leaders agreed that whatever package the House leadership and the White House agreed on would be treated as a "fait accompli" in the Senate.

    The Senate leaders’ sudden shift in direction caught Chairman Baucus and me by surprise. As I noted above, we’d already engaged the committee process for several weeks. We were fully engaged on a member and staff level. Many of our members and staff brought to the table the experience from three stimulus bills earlier in this decade.

    Now, I respect the role of the leaders here. My guess is Chairman Baucus and the two-thirds of the committee members that supported the committee bill yesterday also respect the role of the leaders. Many in the leadership on my side of the aisle worried about the problems that might arise if the Senate had no role other than to rubber stamp the House bill. They are rightly concerned about the Senate processing a bill, dragging it out, and loading the bill up. Certainly, that is a reasonable concern. Certainly, it is a carefully considered concern. But is that concern, in itself, so great that the Senate should abdicate all of its legislative responsibility? Is that concern so great that Finance Committee members should have no say over legislation that falls in its jurisdiction?

    In my almost quarter century of service on the Finance Committee, I’m not aware of any precedent like this. I’m also not aware of any precedent on the House side. At the end of last session, some on the House side might have complained about the outcome of legislation favoring the Senate. I’m not, however, aware of a situation where House leaders, on either side, virtually ceded their role in legislating on a tax bill this important. As I said, I respect the concern of the leaders about timing.

    It comes down to this, Mr. President. The leaders’ concern with timing must be weighed against the question of the quality of the House bill. In other words, is a take-it or leave-it House bill, which passes quickly, better than a Senate bill which allows the Senate to work its will. I’ve laid out the leaders’ concerns about timing. Now, we question of the adequacy of the House bill. That’s the other side of the balance we need to strike. I know other members, on both sides, have asked themselves this same question, including our chairman.

    The chairman makes the ultimate call. Even if I had decided the importance of quick action outweighed the benefits of going through the committee process, the chairman would’ve made the ultimate call to go forward. That was the call the chairman made back in 2002 and it was the call he made this time. In 2002, I disagreed on the substance and we had a party-line markup, but the committee did process a stimulus bill. So to anyone on my side who says my opposition would have stopped the chairman from going forward, I’d say look at history. It didn’t stop the committee in 2002 and it wouldn’t stop it now. The same outcome occurred in 2003 when I was chairman and Senator Baucus was ranking member. We went forward in 2003.

    This time we proceeded in a bipartisan manner. And what did the committee process yield, Mr. President? Let’s examine this side of the question. Asked another way, did the committee process improve the House bill with a Senate amendment? One thing I heard loud and clear from Republicans was concern about suffocating income limits. The Chairman heard me out and agreed to eliminate them. Unfortunately, the support from our side of the aisle did not line up with that principle. On the Chairman’s side of the aisle, great controversy developed.

    We heard the uncapped proposal, over and over again, defined by Bill and Melinda Gates. To those on the left, let me tell you there must be a lot of Bill and Melinda Gateses out there. The reason I say that is that $12 billion of rebate checks is involved in going back to the House income caps. With the amount of checks capped, it means millions of families, not a few millionaires are the folks affected. Like I said, those facts didn’t move many on my side away from the House bill that contains those caps. So, I revisited the issue with the Chairman. The caps are back, but at a much higher level. They begin to phase out at $150,000 for single taxpayers and $300,000 for married taxpayers.

    Mr. President, that’s double the House income limits. It’s safe to say that the higher income limits will aid a lot of AMT tax paying families we hear about. From my perspective, this is a big improvement over the House bill. So, if you’re support the Finance Committee bill, you’re recognizing the burden these taxpaying families bear. I don’t want hear any more demagoguery about Bill and Melinda Gates getting checks. No billionaires get checks. No millionaires will get checks. No half-millionaires get checks. But a lot of upper middle income families who won’t get a check under the House bill will get a check under the Finance Committee amendment.

    Most on my side would consider these higher income caps an improvement over the House bill. I’d particularly credit Senators Crapo and Kyl for bringing this point up in our Finance Committee meetings. Some, on the other side, especially those from high-income, high-tax Blue States will quietly support this change as well.

    On the other end of the income scale are 20 million low-income seniors. Let’s underscore this point. The House bill leaves out 20 million low-income seniors. The Chairman’s mark corrects that defect. Here is the House bill. You won’t find seniors with social security income covered in this bill. You will find them covered in the Finance Committee bill.

    Since we don’t have bill text yet, I’m holding up the chairman’s mark. We made this happen by including social security benefits as qualifying income in the Chairman’s mark. Here’s what the mark, at page 3, says:

    "All eligible individuals are entitled .. if they satisfy at least two of the following criteria: The sum of an individual’s: earned income .. and (2) social security benefits must be at least $3,000."

    That language is not in the House bill. Because that language is not in the House bill 20 million seniors won’t get checks if the House bill passes as is.

    During our committee process, many members discussed this defect in the House bill. As a result of careful Finance Committee member deliberations, we were able to improve the House bill.

    Many disabled veterans don’t get checks under the House bill. Disabled veterans get checks under the Finance Committee amendment. Here’s what the Finance Committee document, at page 2, says:

    "The provision modifies the Chairman’s mark to expand the rebate benefit to disabled veterans."

    During careful Finance Committee deliberations, Senators Lincoln and Snowe filed an amendment to insure that disabled veterans would be covered. The Chairman incorporated that amendment into his modified mark. Does anyone think that this is an inappropriate improvement to the House bill? I ask that of those who insist that we rubber stamp this House bill.

    So, the House bill, which some are insisting cannot be improved by the Finance Committee, includes 20 million seniors and disabled veterans. The House bill also could send checks to illegal aliens. That’s right, Mr. President, the House bill, which some are saying is the best bill we can get, covers illegal aliens.

    Let’s turn to the Modification to the Chairman’s mark. On page 2, here’s what the document says:

    "The provision denies the basic credit and the qualifying child credit to individuals if they do not include on their tax return a valid taxpayer identification number for: (1) themselves (and if they are married, their spouse); and (2) any children for whom the qualifying child tax credit is claimed. For these purposes, a valid taxpayer identification number is defined as a social security number.

    If an individual fails to provide a correct taxpayer identification number, such omission will be treated as a mathematical or clerical error. As under present law, the Internal Revenue Service (the "IRS") may summarily assess additional tax due as a result of a mathematical or clerical error without sending the taxpayer a notice of deficiency and giving the taxpayer an opportunity to petition the tax Court. Where the IRS uses the summary assessment procedure for mathematical or clerical errors, the taxpayer must be given an explanation of the asserted error and given 60 days to request that the IRS abate its assessment."

    Mr. President, this provision uses current IRS verification techniques. It ensures that the taxpayer getting the check is identified by the tax system.

    During Finance Committee deliberations, Senator Ensign and his staff raised this important issue. Senator Ensign filed an amendment that was addressed in the modified Chairman’s mark.

    The House bill has no provision on this. Here’s the bill. Take a look at this bill. There is no language in the House bill to address the problem Senator Ensign properly raised in the Finance Committee. The Finance Committee bill improves the House bill by making sure illegal aliens do not get the check.

    The Finance Committee amendment also beefs up the business stimulus package by adding additional years to the current law net operating loss ("NOL") carryback rules.

    The Finance Committee bill adds extension of unemployment insurance benefits. I know this was a big sticking point in the negotiations between the House and the White House. In this respect, I favor the House bill. My personal preference would be to eliminate this provision. It, however, was a key issue for all the Democrats. So, in the compromise the Chairman has worked out, it was essential.

    I pushed hard for investment energy incentives and the Chairman agreed with my respect. So, the last piece of this compromise is an expansion of the investment incentives to seamlessly extend investment incentives for wind, biomass and other renewable energy projects. In committee, these provisions caught some criticism and I expect we’ll hear more of the same today. I’ll respond in detail when those criticisms arise.

    So, Mr. President, I compliment committee members on finding the bipartisan middle ground. The Committee’s stimulus package raises the caps on rebate checks, expanding the benefit to more middle class Americans, social security recipients and disabled veterans. It makes sure illegal immigrants don’t get checks. It also expands some of the business relief and addresses unemployment benefits. The energy investment incentives round out the package.

    I ask members to go back to the basic question of balancing quick action on the House bill versus improvements made by the Finance Committee.

    The House bill could be passed quickly without improvements. Or we could finish the process here in the Senate and add the improvements made by the Finance Committee. I’d challenge anyone to argue that none of the improvements made by the committee process are important enough to finish the job here in the Senate.

    Having made that point, Mr. President, we could prove our leaders right if we load up the bill in the Senate. We must keep our eye on the ball. We must not load up this stimulus package or else it is likely to sink. Christmas is over folks. Let’s not load this up like a Christmas tree. Thank you, Mr. President.
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  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Oregon (pronounced "ore-ee-gun")
    Grassley is co-chairman for the minority (Repubs), so he has probably the best and most critical perspective on the whole process as it winds through the Senate Finance Committee and out to the Senate for a vote.
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  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    January 31, 2008

    As we told you yesterday, the economic stimulus package going through Congress right now has loopholes that allow the IRS to issue tax rebate checks to illegal aliens. Yesterday, the Senate Finance Committee took up the Senate version of the economic stimulus package. In the hearing, Senators agreed in principal to fix these loopholes, but the language has not been officially released and adopted. WE MUST THEREFORE KEEP PRESSURE ON CONGRESS TO ACT!!!

    It is important to note that the language of the House bill (which is also the basis for the Senate bill) does not expressly state that illegal aliens are eligible for the tax rebate. The problem arises because nothing in the legislation expressly tells the IRS to weed out false and fraudulent social security numbers already in the system before issuing checks. It also allows some individuals using individual taxpayer identification numbers (ITINs) to claim rebate checks. ITINs are issued by the IRS regardless of immigration status and are often used by illegal aliens to file taxes. The irony here, of course, is that many illegal aliens file tax returns because they fear the IRS, but clearly not the Department of Homeland Security.

    During yesterday's committee hearing, Senator John Ensign (R-NV) raised the issue that the economic stimulus legislation (based on the House version, H.R.5140) would allow the IRS to issue rebate checks to illegal aliens. This generated a discussion in which a number of Senators agreed this loophole must be closed. The committee members then agreed in concept to amendment to the bill that:

    * requires recipients to be lawfully present;
    * prohibits the issuance of rebates to individuals filing with individual taxpayer identification numbers (ITINs); and
    * requires the IRS to check taxpayer names and social security numbers against no-match lists.

    Again, while this amendment was agreed to in principle, committee staff must still draft the language and insert it into the final version of the bill. With the agreement in concept, the Senate Finance Committee passed the economic stimulus package by a vote of 14-7. The bill now goes to the Senate floor where it may be taken up as early as TONIGHT!!! If the Senate passes language that addresses the loophole, the House must also approve the change.

    FAIR therefore urges all members, activists, and friends to call their Senators and Representatives IMMEDIATELY and tell them this loophole must be fixed before Congress passes any economic stimulus legislation!!! Tell them Congress must act to end the taxpayer subsidy of illegal immigration. ... usMess.htm

  6. #6
    Senior Member Catslave's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    I only heard this on tv as I going out the door so cant supply exact source,
    but it regarded conflict between house and senate versions and they said
    they should at least pass the house version quickly. RED FLAG!

    Thats the one with the giveaway to stimulate Mexicos economy, deny
    seniors who pay taxes any of the pie (the one China is funding) and
    numerous loopholes to redistribute the wealth.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Catslave's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by usanevada
    The word was that Ensigns amend was still in it to stop illegals from getting the checks , it was another Ensign amend that was shot down

    Its also my understanding that Reid put this whole debate on
    hold until next week

    We do need some acurate info on exactly where it stands right now
    there has been no further discussion of this on cable news that I have seen
    besides a report yesterday on Cavuto that they "took out giving it to illegals"

    I will watch for anything relavent on this today
    Thats right. Reid "wants them", Obama and Klinton back on Monday to
    be in on this thing. Stalling?

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Oregon (pronounced "ore-ee-gun")
    Oh, here's a little nugget I failed to investigate earlier, but by some traversing of basic details, does tend to explain a lot here:
    (Where the current stimulus package likely got most of it's current configuration)

    (Look for Reps in bold for special or notable significance)

    US House Financial Services Committee Members

    Chairman Barney Frank represents Massachusetts' Fourth Congressional District. The other Democratic members of the Committee are:

    Rep. Paul E. Kanjorski, PA
    Rep. Maxine Waters, CA
    Rep. Carolyn B. Maloney, NY
    Rep. Luis V. Gutierrez, IL
    Rep. Nydia M. Velázquez, NY
    Rep. Melvin L. Watt, NC
    Rep. Gary L. Ackerman, NY
    Rep. Brad Sherman, CA
    Rep. Gregory W. Meeks, NY
    Rep. Dennis Moore, KS
    Rep. Michael E. Capuano, MA
    Rep. Rubén Hinojosa, TX
    Rep. William Lacy Clay, MO
    Rep. Carolyn McCarthy, NY
    Rep. Joe Baca, CA
    Rep. Stephen F. Lynch, MA
    Rep. Brad Miller, NC
    Rep. David Scott, GA
    Rep. Al Green, TX
    Rep. Emanuel Cleaver, MO
    Rep. Melissa L. Bean, IL
    Rep. Gwen Moore, WI
    Rep. Lincoln Davis, TN
    Rep. Albio Sires, NJ
    Rep. Paul W. Hodes, NH
    Rep. Keith Ellison, MN
    Rep. Ron Klein, FL
    Rep. Tim Mahoney, FL
    Rep. Charles Wilson, OH
    Rep. Ed Perlmutter, CO
    Rep. Christopher S. Murphy, CT
    Rep. Joe Donnelly, IN
    Rep. Robert Wexler, (FL)
    Rep. Jim Marshall, GA
    Rep. Dan Boren, OK

    Republican Members

    Rep. Spencer Bachus, AL
    Rep. Richard H. Baker, LA
    Rep. Deborah Pryce, OH
    Rep. Michael N. Castle, DE
    Rep. Peter King, NY
    Rep. Edward R. Royce, CA
    Rep. Frank D. Lucas, OK
    Rep. Ron Paul, TX
    Rep. Steven C. LaTourette, OH
    Rep. Donald A. Manzullo, IL
    Rep. Walter B. Jones , NC
    Rep. Judy Biggert, IL
    Rep. Christopher Shays, CT
    Rep. Gary G. Miller, CA
    Rep. Shelley Moore Capito, WV
    Rep. Tom Feeney, FL
    Rep. Jeb Hensarling, TX
    Rep. Scott Garrett, NJ
    Rep. Ginny Brown-Waite, FL
    Rep. J. Gresham Barrett, SC
    Rep. Jim Gerlach, PA
    Rep. Stevan Pearce, NM
    Rep. Randy Neugebauer, TX
    Rep. Tom Price, GA
    Rep. Geoff Davis, KY
    Rep. Patrick T. McHenry, NC
    Rep. John Campbell, CA
    Rep. Adam Putnam, FL
    Rep. Michele Bachmann, MN
    Rep. Peter J. Roskam, IL
    Rep. Kenny Marchant, TX
    Rep. Thaddeus McCotter, MI
    Rep. Kevin McCarthy, CA

    Update: Added the below -

    If you didn't have enough to be afraid of, nor concerned about in this day and age, here's one that should REALLY make you sit up and pay attention:

    Re: Luis Gutierrez...

    Domestic and International Monetary Policy, Trade and Technology
    Chairman Luis V. Gutierrez (IL)leads the subcommittee. The subcommittee’s jurisdiction includes domestic monetary policy, and agencies which directly or indirectly affect domestic monetary policy, multilateral development lending institutions such as the World Bank, coins and currency including operations of the Bureau of the Mint and the Bureau of Engraving and Printing, and international trade and finance including all matters pertaining to the International Monetary Fund and the Export-Import Bank.

    ...Is a degreed social worker (Sociology?, Social Work?) - no advanced degree, no specialization in economics, political science, etc. OMG!
    We really ARE doomed!!!!
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  9. #9
    Senior Member tinybobidaho's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    I heard on CSPAN yesterday that they could vote on this bill Monday.
    RIP TinybobIdaho -- May God smile upon you in his domain forevermore.

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  10. #10
    Senior Member crazybird's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Joliet, Il
    Bold print reps are in highly illegal areas. Like it's a surprise.

    This doesn't even address those using stolen SS#'s etc. I doubt they are going to cross check anything since speed is of the essence.
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