Thread: WHO is Telling the Truth in Florida ??

Yesterday, I happened to notice the campaign headquarters for Democrat Ron Klein who is going to try to replace Congressman Clay Shaw in Florida.

I decided to stop by to get some info and ask where he stands on Illegal Immigration. There were A LOT of campaign workers inside working HARD.

I asked a question, the first person couldn't answer it so I went over and picked up a pamphlet. I was walking out when a more in charge lady came running over to me, introduced herself and asked if she could help me.

I told her that I wanted to find out where Ron Klein stood on illegal immigration. She said she didn't know !!!!

I SAID TO MYSELF.....Well if SHE DOESN'T EVEN KNOW.....then that tells me RIGHT THERE WHERE HE STANDS.

She asked me to come back on Saturday (tomorrow) because he will be there for a party with the campaign staffers and she said that he would like to talk to me in person regarding this issue.

So, I will go for the sake of our cause, but I expect to be on opposite side from him.

I would appreciate any help from you guys on exactly what I should focus in on with him, and the best way for me to express my diagreement. I hate to sound negative....but come on....a Democrat in FLorida is most likely going to be a MAJOR PANDERER to special interest groups.

Could anyone please help me with this ? Just judging from how busy those campaign workers are already tells me that Clay Shaw might have a pretty hard time winning re-election.

ALSO, Clay Shaw has always stood by President Bush on everything. But I guess I will have to support him over this guy. I'm caught between a hard place and a rock because I've been disappointed in Clay Shaw for not standing more solidly by us.

I'm expecting him to use the old line about the economy needing illegals, so that's where I'm going to need to stop him.

William, do you have any suggestions, or are you just going to say, "You can handle it Legal."

That's what I'm expecting to hear from you guys !! I know you guys probably think that, and I realize that I know enough about this not to let anyone get anything over on me, BUT I still need a little help. Please ?

Are you guys speechless ??!! No one has ANY suggestions ??

I'll tell you what. I'll just tell him what I think he needs to be told and we'll leave it at that.

Thanks anyway.

Here's another idea.....just don't go and instead go to the beach with my family which was my original plan for Saturday !!!

I guess that's not a very good idea.

Okay, I'll go. But I know it's a waste of time. There's only ONE Democrat that I know who supports the American people regarding illegal immigration and that's Byron Dorgan of North Dakota.

I'd definitely give up the beach to talk to him.

I'm going to give him five minutes on Saturday to CONVINCE ME and then that's it. I'll "just say NO", and then head for the beach.

How does that sound ?

It sounds good, Legal. Thank you, Self.

My approach to my candidates...
1. Do you support securing the borders with enforcement?
2. Do you support amesty for illegal immigrants?

I am up front with them. I ask for a simple "yes" or "no" answer.

Expect them to counter with questions and then they will tell you of all the wonderful things that they have done for your area.

Good luck!

Ok, I posted something else and then went to do some research. I think I might post this as a separate topic. but here is some info.


Candidate statement:
http://shaw.house.gov/News/DocumentSing ... ntID=45797


SHAW: Congress Needs a More Thoughtful Approach to Immigration Reform



Washington, Jun 21 -

Ten years ago this August, I had the privilege of working to reform our nation’s welfare system. Taking on this challenge was no easy task, yet Congress did its proper work by holding hearings, listening to testimony, and encouraging both parties to put aside the partisan rhetoric and engage in meaningful, lasting reform. After months of work, and hundreds of hours of methodical planning, our program was signed into law by President Clinton and has been tremendously successful.


Congress must conduct itself in the same thorough way in regard to the current immigration debate. Its time for politicians from both parties to put partisanship aside and offer forward-thinking proposals that will fix the immigration problems we have today while considering the inevitable challenges we will face once a new policy is in place.


Congress must do several things to create an effective and meaningful immigration policy that will benefit Americans citizens, American businesses, and guest workers.


First and foremost, any immigration plan must effectively keep illegal aliens out of our country. I firmly believe we must stop the flow of illegal immigrants at the U.S.-Mexican border. With the border unsuitably guarded, I voted in favor of building a wall to deter illegal immigrants from entering the U.S. I strongly believe we must secure the border first before any guest worker program is established. When your basement is flooded, you have to turn off the water before you start cleaning up the mess.


The second component is to create a comprehensive guest worker program. There is no question that America needs guest workers. Immigrants need the work, and we need the labor. Our industries and some local economies depend on foreign workers.


Unfortunately, Congress has not addressed the myriad of questions that are central to a guest worker program: How do we determine who gets a guest worker permit? How many permits will we issued? How long are the permits valid? Are we going to complete background checks on each guest worker – if so, how do we administer the background checks? Before any immigration plan is approved by Congress and signed into law, we must methodically work through these challenges to ensure we are implementing good policy for both American employers and guest workers.


The third component in that Congress must recognize that a guest worker program is not a path to citizenship. In fact, in my view, guest worker policies and citizenship policies are entirely unrelated. Our country already has an established track to citizenship for law-abiding citizens, and a guest worker permit should not be used as a ticket on the fast train to American citizenship.


Our nation is a nation of immigrants. We have all read the immigrant story and take pride in our diversity of numerous ethnic groups. We can still keep Lady Liberty’s words of “Bring me your tired, your weary” but we must install an immigration policy that encourages a legal process.


Finally, one of the most underreported problems with a failed immigration policy is that it detracts from our ability to attend to other important issues between our countries such as trade. We have observed thirteen years of free trade between the U.S.-Mexico under NAFTA. Free trade promotes economic development in the country or region benefiting from low tariffs and unlimited market access. NAFTA has increased exports from Mexico to the United States. Despite the benefits that trade has brought to Mexico and the United States, there are many bilateral trade problems that need to be addressed but end up taking a back-burner because of the persistent problem of illegal immigrants. As Chairman of the Ways and Means Subcommittee on Trade, I will be focusing on aspects of our bilateral relationship with Mexico, especially trade, and how immigration has impacted the many dimensions of our countries’ relationship.


The enforcement of our border and immigration reform policy will remain one of our greatest domestic priorities. Congress and the President must offer a solution to the current immigration crises. I urge my colleagues to refrain from empty rhetoric and silly gimmicks and instead create a guest worker program that will work for future generations.

Grade from NumbersUSA was A-
http://grades.betterimmigration.com/tes ... &VIPID=203


Grade cards for Florida politicians at:
http://grades.betterimmigration.com/del ... istrict=FL

Posie, thank you so much. That advise is extremely helpful, to ask those couple of questions and keep the converstion on track. If he starts dictating his autobiography to me, I'll politely end it and trade in his hot air for the Atlantic Ocean's hot water. Thank you very much, Posie !

NewMexican, a million thanks for that information. It makes me glad that I called his campaign headquarters today. I will pick up the bumper stickers to hand out to people and try to volunteer some time helping with his campaign. I've been unsure about him lately, but I think I know now what we need to do.

Thank you to both of you. I'll let you know how it goes.

I named this thread: "Looking like Clay Shaw Might Lose in Florida".

I'm going to change it to " Looking Like Clay Shaw Might Win in Florida" !!

Here's how it went:

I never thought that I would get to talk to him for as long as I did one on one. I started by asking him what his position is regarding illegal immigration. He answered by saying that of course he wants the borders completely secured. (No surprise there...EVERY LAST ONE OF THE CANDIDATES WILL HAVE TO SAY THAT). He said that it is the employers who are creating this whole problem. Then I asked him about amnesty. He said that he is against it. He backed it up by saying that it wasn't fair and that it puts people who broke the law in front of others who are immigrating legally. He said if we reward people like that it will only draw more people entering illegally. He said a few more things, but then I reiterated saying "So you are against all amnesty, any amnesty ? " He said "Yes".

Then I told him that I'm an Independent and that I had voted for Bush.
IT TURNS OUT THAT I THINK THIS ONE SENTENCE HAD THE BIGGEST IMPACT ON HIM AND IN A MINUTE I'll EXPLAIN WHY.

I went on to tell him about the problems in our area, I asked him to drive down Sample Road at 7AM in the morning and just look for himself at all the illegals in our area waiting to be picked up to go to work. (Funny, he asked what are they doing there...I had to explain that they are picked up by people and taken to jobs).

He brought the conversation back to EMPLOYERS. He REALLY went into the EMPLOYERS being the problem. I told him that many of these "small business" owners are actually doing EXTREMELY WELL and some are downright wealthy, BUT THEY ARE PRETENDING THAT THEY CANNOT AFFORD to pay a legal American a liveable wage. He seemed a little SURPRISED that this fact was coming out. I said they want us to think that they are little Mom and Pop organizations living above the stores struggling and I said, this is a lie and misinformation. I told him the story about the California flower grower (Mr. Mellano...the article is posted here at ALIPAC) who grows his flowers on 375 acres of land and then says his business would be "harmed" without illegal workers. I said that I thought the Democrats were suppose to stand for the little guy in America, and if that is true then WHY aren't they standing up for the American people and why are they supporting this type of crime against us ?

I told him about a group of Americans I know who have been run out of what was their home for 14 to 17 years in a small apartment complex in the area. I told him some people from Brazil purchased the small complex and started raisng their rent in a manner which was clearly meant to run out the Americans. I said it all happened in a matter of four months and that the last American left this week. I told him the place is now FILLED with illegal aliens. He looked concerned to hear the story.

But the important thing was that as I was leaving, he started to give like a little informal speech to his campaign workers. I decided to stop and listen. He said that they all need to be ready for A LOT of questions. He said it's the "Independent" voter who will have the questions. He said many of them are concerned about specific issues, especially illegal immigration and we need to have answers for them. He said people who voted for the President want to know if we have the right answers to serious problems such as this.

Then he looked at me and I looked at him and he smiled and I smiled and I think Senator Klein knows that he had better take a strong stand on this issue or we Independents will not vote for him !

Okay that's all. I think we're going to need to really find out WHERE he goes with this situation of illegal iimigration. Was he just talking or was he serious ?

That's my question now. HOW CAN WE BE SURE THAT HE MEANS WHAT HE SAYS ?