Thread: Why is English as a 2nd language even necessary?

I understand that all children are entitled to a free, appropriate, public education, because, just like anchor babies, even though parents may be here illegally, they are for some reason considered under a state's jurisdiction, but with so much money being spent on teaching these kids English, I don't understand we can't just teach kids who are here legally ESL in schools. Why aren't the kids here illegally, mostly from Mexico and Spanish-speaking, just being taught the basics, in Spanish. It would be cheaper to have a Spanish speaking teacher teach them the basics in Spanish, then to waste years trying to teach them English, and then teach them the basics in addition to English. If they graduate from high school unable to speak English, but knowing the basics, in Spanish, that should be considered their parent's choice (to not learn English themselves, and teach it to their kids).
The public school my child was to go to (in Tucson, kids can go to the public school they are assigned to, try to get into another public school which uses a lottery to decide which out of area children can attend, or try to get into a charter school, which is not part of TUSD) was failing (25% of the children are in ESL), and also doesn't teach any foreign languages (only English to children who don't speak English, so I guess that's a foreign language to them, so they basically get a better education then my kid would) so I tried to get her into an excelling public school, which was closer to my house than the school she was assigned to, but she didn't "win" the lottery, so I put her in a charter school where she will be taught Spanish and Chinese (I think knowing a foreign language is necessary today).
I'm just curious why ESL is considered part of an appropriate education, instead of appropriate meaning the basics in whatever language they already understand.
One school, a magnet public school, Catalina Magnet High School, needs to have extra special programs to entice minority children, due to segregation problems. They actually pay $115,000/year to teach 10 students to fly airplanes and get their pilot's license, at taxpayer expense. That article was in the AZ Daily Star today. Of course, illegals would be allowed to get into this also (appropriate?). They can also take classes in health care, business, etc, knowing they can't work legally. How does this benefit them, or the taxpayers?
Why are illegals allowed to get a free public education, why are they allowed to go to charter schools which, while free, are not part of TUSD (I'm using Tucson Unified School District, but I'm sure it's the same in every state).
Meanwhile, we are hearing about huge budget cuts to K-12 in AZ. How much does it cost for all the "La Raza" programs in public schools? Are those "appropriate" or necessary, or do they benefit all children and not just those who are part of "THE race"?
Any ideas?

It is necessary for those here illegally, to learn English so they are better suited to steal jobs from American citizens. Spanish speakers are forcing taxpayers to educate, translate, and otherwise eliminate, any barrier to the recolonization of America.
I wonder how much our country spends yearly on programs that benefit Spanish speakers as opposed to those who speak any other foreign language? Of course, no one would ever be allowed to reveal such information.

ESL students are typically behind 2 to 3 grade levels from non ESL kids grade levels. Their A in math is not the same as a non esl students A in math or any other subject. Typically the esl kids are taught in English-the teachers just go slower as they are teaching the kids new English words and the subjects at the same time. So in reality at least in my area they are only being taught the basics.

Meanwhile, we are hearing about huge budget cuts to K-12 in AZ. How much does it cost for all the "La Raza" programs in public schools? Are those "appropriate" or necessary, or do they benefit all children and not just those who are part of "THE race"?

Alot and no it doesn't benefit all the students. Only the Spanish speakers. In fact they cut classes and programs away from our students in order to cater to just the Spanish speakers. Other students, atleast in my area, do not all get ESL classes if they aren't a certain percentage of the student population. So if you're Chinese and there's not enough of you....you are thrown in to sink or swim.

Here....many of the ESL students are taught classes in their native language and not in English.....which just reinforces the need not to speak English. Those kids then graduate and then start demanding college classes in Spanish.....which then leads to American citizens and other legal immigrants who learned English to be refused positions because their second language isn't Spanish.....even though they are bi-lingual. Now they are starting to refuse people positions based on race alone. It's not enough to be a teacher who takes on another language to be certified bi-lingual educator...you must be the same ethnic group as well.

Now it seems we don't have a real issue with students who speak other languages, because their parents usually encourage them to learn English and do so AND because it is required for citizenship. The one group who remains obstinate about it are the hispanics.

Learning another language is wonderful, it's a problem when it denies qualified people the right to work in their own country when they don't speak another specific language for the area they live in because of whom ever might be the latest wave of new immigrants in the area.........yet I can't demand to be spoken to in English. There's I think 350 different languages spoken in the USA......it's impossible to expect everyone to be fluent in all of them in order to live and work here....when we require only 1.....English, to level the playing field for everyone. Why cater to just the hispanics when others face the same issues and aren't catered to. Can you imagine a tornado warning or a road sign with each and every language represented? Can't cater to one group without catering to others.......and I shouldn't need a translator to order a hamburger in my own country....I never left. You can't go basing the second language on who's the biggest group now because through time that changes as well. You can walk through our mall or stand in line at the deli and hear a multitude of languages being spoken. The difference is they can ask a question and answer one in English. Why should the minimum wage deli clerk be expected to address each one in whatever language they want, when all any of them have to do is speak English? How often do you see a job where it says "must speak Hungarian"? or "Must speak Arabic" or Polish or any other language out there? Knowing another language....ANY other language is wonderful......why just Spanish catering only? I lived in an area where the newest and biggest influx of immigrants was Chinese. Wal-Mart didn't have bi-lingual signs in Chinese. But they did in Spanish. Yet it was an area settled by Germans, Swedes and Hungarians.....all of whom had to learn English as well. The school didn't have bi-lingual Chinese-English classes. The Chinese people learned English right off the bat by refusing to speak Chinese and flooding themselves in the English language through books and TV and radio etc. They weren't screaming for special funding just for their people or demanding to be catered to or treated differently than the rest of the citizens in the area.

LOL.....not to mention an English speaking person can't graduate in America if they don't pass English classes......how can you graduate in America and not speak English? But they are doing it. If I'm not mistaken it was the main reason they started the public school system, to get everyone speaking the same language and leveling the playing field for all so we weren't in seperate ethnic communities having some exel and others be left behind.

We are having alot of programs being offered at tax payers expense to favor certain groups and neglect of others. Citizens being denied help so illegals get a break, based not on grades and ability, but on race alone.
Kind of blows the idea of equality out of the water.....forget who's best for the job or anything else. Why should my tax dollars be spent to fund any specific ethnic group when it's denied my child because they aren't? I mean if they want us to seperate into ethnic groups or language groups, then tell me where my section of the country is and I'll go......just don't come banging on my door demanding equality if you're group doesn't do so hot. Stay out of my schools and jobs and everything else and keep to your own section....and may the best group win. Just don't be surprised in 50 years that they don't start bussing and such to get back to "diverse communities" because some did well and others failed......AGAIN.

Why aren't the kids here illegally, mostly from Mexico and Spanish-speaking, just being taught the basics, in Spanish.

Umm, Because this is America!!!!

Originally Posted by wmarincic

Why aren't the kids here illegally, mostly from Mexico and Spanish-speaking, just being taught the basics, in Spanish.

Umm, Because this is America!!!!

I hate to be so blunt, but wmarinic is right. Our taxes are throught the roof where I live, and it is BECAUSE of the esl programs. They get all the free handouts that the district provides, and I have to pay for it. 2 weeks ago, I had a birthday party for my daughter in her classroom. I had just enough cupcakes and Hawaiian Punch for the 15 kids in her class. Right before the class was dismissed, the ESL class lined up in front of the door to get ready to leave. They saw the party going on and immediately rushed into the classroom, ignoring their spanish-speaking teacher. They pointed at the cupcakes and punch and was spewing something in spanish. My little girl was picking out her "present" from her teacher when a little anchor boy took the ring out of my daughters hand. It took 2 esl teachers to physically remove these kids. This is NOT something I should have to pay for. This IS America and WE speak ENGLISH! In my eyes, NONE of the children born to an illegal are citzens. That type of "it's all mine" attitude these kids displayed is exactly why we can't support this any longer. These kids will grow up, and America will be theirs.

Originally Posted by jshhmr

Originally Posted by wmarincic

I hate to be so blunt, but wmarinic is right. Our taxes are throught the roof where I live, and it is BECAUSE of the esl programs. They get all the free handouts that the district provides, and I have to pay for it.

That's my point. In Tucson, it costs at least $40,000,000 per year to teach ESL. http://www.tucsoncitizen.com/daily/local/101258.php
I say, just teach them in Spanish, and let them graduate speaking one language, if their parents choose not to pay to have them learn English in a class after school, or choose not to learn English and teach their kids English themselves, and let them try to find a job not speaking English. As it is, many jobs here require bilingual English/Spanish, not just English or just Spanish, so they would then have a harder time finding a job, just as those who only speak English do. It wouldn't cost 40 million to hire a few Spanish speaking teachers to teach them the basics in Spanish. I just don't think it's the school/taxpayer's place to teach kids how to speak English. ESL is too expensive. La Raza is a waste of money. The children could go to some La Raza group on their own time, such as after they get home from school or on weekends. That simply does not belong in school, and I resent paying for it with my taxes.

Originally Posted by Steph

Originally Posted by jshhmr

Originally Posted by wmarincic

I hate to be so blunt, but wmarinic is right. Our taxes are throught the roof where I live, and it is BECAUSE of the esl programs. They get all the free handouts that the district provides, and I have to pay for it.

That's my point. In Tucson, it costs at least $40,000,000 per year to teach ESL. http://www.tucsoncitizen.com/daily/local/101258.php
I say, just teach them in Spanish, and let them graduate speaking one language, if their parents choose not to pay to have them learn English in a class after school, or choose not to learn English and teach their kids English themselves, and let them try to find a job not speaking English. As it is, many jobs here require bilingual English/Spanish, not just English or just Spanish, so they would then have a harder time finding a job, just as those who only speak English do. It wouldn't cost 40 million to hire a few Spanish speaking teachers to teach them the basics in Spanish. I just don't think it's the school/taxpayer's place to teach kids how to speak English. ESL is too expensive. La Raza is a waste of money. The children could go to some La Raza group on their own time, such as after they get home from school or on weekends. That simply does not belong in school, and I resent paying for it with my taxes.

Then we pay them welfare or SSI because they dont have the language skills to get a job. I hate to sound hateful but, as far as I'm concerned anchor babies do not qualify for citizenship under the 14th amendment, and illegal immigrant children should not be going to school in America. The reason we have the problems we do with illegals is because we make it so welcoming for them, IE; dial 8 for spansh, welfare, education, free medical and mere deportation for committing major crimes. Stop making it easy for them to be here and they will self deport, no medical care unless they are dying, no education for their kids and no social service programs, PERIOD.

RED ALERT PATRIOTS!!!! YOUR HELP IS NEEDED!

http://www.alipac.us/ftopict-144543.html

English is the 2nd most spoken language is the world, number one is Mandiran (sp) Chinese however english is more widely spoken throughout the planet and is used in business and air traffic control.