Thread: William: Question for Ron Paul Supporters

I appreciate everyone's input here.

I think I know what we should do.

I will work on a statement for our Ron Paul supporters tomorrow.

Instead of going for the full endorsement, I will say that if I were voting in the Republican primary tomorrow, I would vote for Ron Paul.

One of the reasons we have not endorsed a candidate is that ALIPAC supporters are people that are very informed and very capable of making good decisions on our own.

It makes sense for us to endorse in US Senate and Congressional races, but our supporters are very capable of making wise decisions on their own in regards to Presidential candidates if we just provide them with supporting information.

W

Originally Posted by ALIPAC

The "loons" in my opinion are true paranoids that see more shadows than truth. They find comfort among those of us in the immigration enforcement movement and around the Ron Paul campaign that are looking at actual conspiracies and trickery.

I'm starting to think that our world of dealing with true behind the scenes betrayals is both an attractant and cover for some people that have serious mental issues.


W

Yes, I've met some very interesting people (ehem!) working with the campaign. So are so many theories they can't all be true.

But if anybody had told me 2 years ago that there were groups that wanted to combine North AMerica, I would have laughed.

If you had told me that the competing news markets would collude over certain talking points, I woud have doubted you.

There are far too many conspiracy theories in the Paul world, but I can't always decide exactly where reality ends and lunacy begins.

Rest assured it's before the "lizard people who rule the world",though.

And, to be fair, I met a Romney supporter who looked like a Grandma. SHe told me all about the gas company that was piping in poison to all the Jewish homes in the neighborhood...for about 20 minutes I got an earful of chinese nuclear babies, russian spy bots...I was happy to see that Paul wasn't the only candidate that had a loony in the crowd sometimes.

Originally Posted by AngelaTC

Originally Posted by Dolly3275

The attack on Sean Hannity in New Hampshire DEFINITELY happened. He showed it on his television show----and it was brought up on Hannity's radio show as well as many other radio shows.

It was a snowball, for heaven's sakes. Perhaps not the wisest move ever, but hardly an attack of the magnitude that whiny Hannity apparently made it out to be.. We have a lot of youthful energy in the Paul movement. No doubt they are frequently their own worst enemies.

I know you've seen how the media can spin immigration rally incidents - this same media is the source you're now citing?

None of the talk show hosts talk rationally with Ron Paul supporters. So attack them verbally, insult them, do everything but address the issues. You can't treat tens of thousands of people like that and not expect some of them to get mad.

Hannity and Fox News have a special place in Ron Paul hell, for absolutely refusing to even mention his name when discussing the candidates.

I was also a Ron Paul precinct captain, and they effectively killed Paul's campaign by refusing to discuss him. SO many people had never heard of him, or thought he had dropped out...

www.ronpaultimeline.com keeps logs on all the non-reporting and mis-reporting. We had a professor from ....argh! I can't remember the nameof the college...but anyway, a professsor at a college you've heard of came to us to get information. He is going to use Ron Paul's campaign as an example of the power of the media, and the effect of collusion in the news market. I did not get the impression that he was necessarily a supporter. If he was, he was the least interested supporter I've ever met.

So while Paul is very markedly an advocate of non-violence....Hannity deserved a snowball. People who spread propoganda deserve some instant karma.

It was not "one" snowball----they were hitting him with MANY snowballs.

And, you are trying to say that physically attacking someone----even with snowballs----is okay??

These actions definitely do not look positive in the media----especially in regard to what this organization and the anti-illegal movement is trying to accomplish.

Well that is great that ALIPAC is able to endorse. I do think if you said "If I were voting tomorrow in the primary I would vote for Ron Paul. " That's a good idea.

Sean Hannity deserved to be hit with many snowballs lol. Even a pie in the face! That's always good. Just line em up..hannity, oreilly, that idiot Levin, Boortz (Boortz gets 3 pies for being a libertarian and dissing Ron Paul) ...gee..it would be a very very long line.

Here's what I think. Ron Paul's message should supercede the reaction of his supporters. I understand that some of his supporters are very young..and don't think before they act. I don't think Ron Paul should be held responsible for that...and people should rise above it and listen to what he says. I wonder how much time the Ron Paul naysayers here have actually spent listening to Ron Paul or reading his MANY writings on issues. The Main Stream media CREATED Ron Paul "the kook". The Main Stream Media created the lunatic supporters and that was their plan to begin with...to PROVE Ron Paul was a loon by inciting anger in his supporters and show them reacting in a negative way. We have talked about this so many times in our meet ups...about conducting ourselves accordingly because the media adores taking pot shots at us. For every incident you have seen or experienced that was not so cool from Ron Paul supporters...there are probably 10 incidents where we were just as professional as anyone . We had several events here in my town..fairly large events that gained very positive local news coverage.

As I said in another thread...we are living in a matrix..will you take the MSM pill?

Originally Posted by ALIPAC

Originally Posted by Lord_Xar

since everyone is all juiced over dobbs, ping dobbs on the downlow and get him to either VP for Ron or Ron to vp for dobbs.

****************

The Paul campaign has a plan. Trust in that.

Remember, this is the SAME candidate that many of you were saying had 10 pimply faced kids in a basement, as supporters. Remember?

Now, with over 600,000+ votes cast for him in the first part of the primary (and that is with the complete media blackout and the obvious MSM manipulations of a 2-man run and even what we have seen here: vote romney to derail McCain)... SO, Ron's support is rather large.

What you also don't know is where Ron placed very well. CNN is being blatant in their omissions.

So, my point being. Once there were 12, now there are 3. Who would have thought.

Alipac. What you are failing to understand is that you are waiting too long. You are afraid to "pull the trigger".

IF you endorse Ron Paul as the GOP candidate, that would go far. BUT that does not mean you preclude an endorsement for a third party run (ala, dobbs). You are giving your endorsement for the GOP nominee.

Think on that. Your endorsement of a GOP nominee is DIFFERENT than your endorsement for Presidential candidate (if dobbs runs).

Alipac. Whatever you do, you need to do it fast and stand behind your endorsement.

I will ask you to endorse Ron Paul for the GOP Nominee. That is the only hand you have. If you wait for some miracle third party, be it Dobbs or Ron Paul - you don't have that luxury.

LordXar,

One of the very big problems I'm starting to develop with possibly endorsing the Ron Paul campaign is the over aggressive, hostile, accusatory, and sometimes flagrantly paranoid messages we are receiving from SOME Ron Paul supporters.

Many of our national supporters like Ron Paul and are voting for Ron Paul, but unfortunately Paul's campaign has also attracted some Lunatic Fringe element.

These people have accused me of being on the take, being paid by Lou Dobbs, working for the CIA, and being a member of the Scull and Bones.

We were threatened by one activist in the west that if we did not utilize our e-mail alert system the way she wanted for Ron Paul she would launch an Internet crusade against ALIPAC. Earlier this week, half my work day was spent dealing with a crazed Ron Paul supporter that did not like one of our emails.

We have been told, a few times, that we will receive no future donations if we don't do this or that. These threats have come exclusively from Ron Paul supporters.

We have been criticized for not endorsing Paul already. We have been criticized for not endorsing Romney beforehand.

We had to ban more people than ever before from our boards due to hostilities between the Paul and Romney supporters that were violating our rules and the Ron Paul supporters were more likely to require banning 2 to 1 over Romney supporters.

ALIPAC has done a great deal to help both Ron Paul and Mitt Romney. The vast majority of our supporters voted for one of the two of them.

If Ron Paul's campaign is going to have a chance, you folks need to reign in this small faction of Ron Paul supporters that are giving the campaign a very bad name.

Other groups in the movement have reported the same kind of overly hostile contacts and wild accusations.

This small cadre of Ron Paul supporters that are acting fanatical and rude are causing the campaign great harm because they are more likely to turn people off to the Ron Paul campaign than to persuade people to join.

My exposure to these people have really dampened my earlier enthusiasm for the Paul campaign.

W

William,

First off, I sincerely want to thank you for giving us ALIPAC and for giving the Ron Paul supporters this opportunity. I am also sorry to hear of your recent problems with some Ron Paul supporters. As you know, within any large grassroots group striving for the same goals, you are going to have people from all walks of life with varying beliefs and opinions on how to get there.

I first became poltically active about 10 yrs ago because of the illegal immigration issue. While I have found the majority of activists to be law abiding decent Americans who are very welcomimg of LEGAL immigrants and just want our laws enforced, there have been a few bad apples among these groups who carry a racist mindset.

Now, some of these same people supported both local and presidential candidates who were on the forefront of fighting illegal immigration, which they have every right to do. But I just could not tolerate working with these people as fellow activists. They had a different agenda. They were coming from a place that went completely against everything I believed in. So I dissassociated myself from them and found people who were sincere . But I never disassociated myself from a decent candidate whom I believed would do some good simply because they may have a few racist people amongst the thousands of their supporters!

Their choices in supporting certain candidates did not make me think any less of the candidates they supported. (Unless of course it was David Duke!) That would be absurd. Grassroots support is just that. It's coming from the people. It's not being directed from any official campaign. As the head of ALIPAC, you know that it's impossible to control the hearts of all your members.

If for example, there are a few on this board who made racist remarks against immigrants, would it be fair for the media or other outsiders to assume that you and ALL the members are of the same mindset? No, of course not.. You would certainly do what you could to protect ALIPAC from such assumptions, but there is only so much that you can control.

With that being said, it would be equally unfair to completely fault Dr. Paul for the actions of a few bad apples. He has NEVER condoned any rude or bad behavior. With thousands of grassroots supporters NO candidate can control what their supporters do or say, or what they may or may not believe in. It's impossible. And I wouldn't hold what a supporter did or said against ANY candidate. Rep. or Dem. It wouldn't be fair.

Yes, I myself have cringed at some of the childish actions by a minority of Paul supporters. While I share their utter frustration and anger at the smears and dirty tactics being used against Ron Paul, I certainly do not condone some of their behavior. You have to remember that many supporters are also college age kids. The majority are great kids but we all know what it was like to be young and stupid. Sometimes you just don't think, you react.

Another thing to please keep in mind- and this is VERY important - There ARE in fact certain elements that have already infiltrated some Ron Paul groups that will stop at nothing to try and bring down the campaign. This has already been verified by some local groups. We try to look out for these people but it's extremely difficult. I'm not suggesting that the people who caused you trouble were not Paul supporters, but there is also a very good possibility that some were not. There's a lot of dirty stuff going on so please understand why some Paul supporters can be rather intense at times!

Of course in politics this happens, as well as with any powerful citizen activist group such as ALIPAC. You know very well the dirty covert tactics that are employed. There will always be those instigators on the opposite side who will PRETEND to be members/supporters while spouting hateful rhetoric so that they can destroy ALIPAC's credibilty. So please keep that in mind too William.

I must admit that it frightens me a little that you would want to dismiss Ron Paul because of what you personally experienced. With all due respect, you are only focusing on a very small percentage of supporters out of the thousands of good families, church people, and military service men and women. I don't think it is fair to punish those who have been playing by the rules and all the good that we have been doing - fighting head to head against a Goliath such as the MSM in trying to get Dr. Paul's message out to the masses.

We're good people and we need good people like yourself and the good members of ALIPC on our side. I hope you will reconsider your thought process on this and make your decison based on Dr. Paul's message of restoring the Constitution - and not on a tiny group of immature people. Thanks.

Never said he would dismiss.. Just some thought was needed on a decision. I think you would agree some thought was necessary.

Originally Posted by Pistov

Never said he would dismiss.. Just some thought was needed on a decision. I think you would agree some thought was necessary.

At the time I was responding I don't believe William's second post was there. Took me so long to type mine up he must have beat me to it! Yes of course I agree, some thought was necessary! Thanks.