Thread: William: Question for Ron Paul Supporters

Originally Posted by ALIPAC

LordXar,

One of the very big problems I'm starting to develop with possibly endorsing the Ron Paul campaign is the over aggressive, hostile, accusatory, and sometimes flagrantly paranoid messages we are receiving from SOME Ron Paul supporters.

Many of our national supporters like Ron Paul and are voting for Ron Paul, but unfortunately Paul's campaign has also attracted some Lunatic Fringe element.

These people have accused me of being on the take, being paid by Lou Dobbs, working for the CIA, and being a member of the Scull and Bones.

We were threatened by one activist in the west that if we did not utilize our e-mail alert system the way she wanted for Ron Paul she would launch an Internet crusade against ALIPAC. Earlier this week, half my work day was spent dealing with a crazed Ron Paul supporter that did not like one of our emails.

We have been told, a few times, that we will receive no future donations if we don't do this or that. These threats have come exclusively from Ron Paul supporters.

We have been criticized for not endorsing Paul already. We have been criticized for not endorsing Romney beforehand.

We had to ban more people than ever before from our boards due to hostilities between the Paul and Romney supporters that were violating our rules and the Ron Paul supporters were more likely to require banning 2 to 1 over Romney supporters.

ALIPAC has done a great deal to help both Ron Paul and Mitt Romney. The vast majority of our supporters voted for one of the two of them.

If Ron Paul's campaign is going to have a chance, you folks need to reign in this small faction of Ron Paul supporters that are giving the campaign a very bad name.

Other groups in the movement have reported the same kind of overly hostile contacts and wild accusations.

This small cadre of Ron Paul supporters that are acting fanatical and rude are causing the campaign great harm because they are more likely to turn people off to the Ron Paul campaign than to persuade people to join.

My exposure to these people have really dampened my earlier enthusiasm for the Paul campaign.

W

The thought has crossed my mind that (some, many, most of) these 'Ron Paul supporters' of whom you speak may very well not be supporters at all, but operatives in the employ of those who want Dr. Paul's message to be marginalized.

I think we all know that there are people who are paid piles of money to cruise forums such as this and plant statements whose ONLY aim is to discredit that forum. You've seen it here at ALIPAC more than once. There are trolls over at the Ron Paul forums that are doing this 24/7 in an attempt to disrupt and discredit the entire movement.

Originally Posted by RJHawkins

Originally Posted by ALIPAC

LordXar,

One of the very big problems I'm starting to develop with possibly endorsing the Ron Paul campaign is the over aggressive, hostile, accusatory, and sometimes flagrantly paranoid messages we are receiving from SOME Ron Paul supporters.

Many of our national supporters like Ron Paul and are voting for Ron Paul, but unfortunately Paul's campaign has also attracted some Lunatic Fringe element.

These people have accused me of being on the take, being paid by Lou Dobbs, working for the CIA, and being a member of the Scull and Bones.

We were threatened by one activist in the west that if we did not utilize our e-mail alert system the way she wanted for Ron Paul she would launch an Internet crusade against ALIPAC. Earlier this week, half my work day was spent dealing with a crazed Ron Paul supporter that did not like one of our emails.

We have been told, a few times, that we will receive no future donations if we don't do this or that. These threats have come exclusively from Ron Paul supporters.

We have been criticized for not endorsing Paul already. We have been criticized for not endorsing Romney beforehand.

We had to ban more people than ever before from our boards due to hostilities between the Paul and Romney supporters that were violating our rules and the Ron Paul supporters were more likely to require banning 2 to 1 over Romney supporters.

ALIPAC has done a great deal to help both Ron Paul and Mitt Romney. The vast majority of our supporters voted for one of the two of them.

If Ron Paul's campaign is going to have a chance, you folks need to reign in this small faction of Ron Paul supporters that are giving the campaign a very bad name.

Other groups in the movement have reported the same kind of overly hostile contacts and wild accusations.

This small cadre of Ron Paul supporters that are acting fanatical and rude are causing the campaign great harm because they are more likely to turn people off to the Ron Paul campaign than to persuade people to join.

My exposure to these people have really dampened my earlier enthusiasm for the Paul campaign.

W

The thought has crossed my mind that (some, many, most of) these 'Ron Paul supporters' of whom you speak may very well not be supporters at all, but operatives in the employ of those who want Dr. Paul's message to be marginalized.

I think we all know that there are people who are paid piles of money to cruise forums such as this and plant statements whose ONLY aim is to discredit that forum. You've seen it here at ALIPAC more than once. There are trolls over at the Ron Paul forums that are doing this 24/7 in an attempt to disrupt and discredit the entire movement.

Absolutely, such as the purported allegation that Glenn Beck was harrassed when no evidence or prosecution was ever known, yet people who watched that interview with RP were tainted!

It is fairly hard to ascertain the true allegiance of an individual online. It is popular here in Seattle amoungst the collectivist groups, to join groups with which they disagree, then adopt policies of radicalism and extremism simply in order to slander or cause negative association. Another technique they utilize is to find a devisive element, focus on it and exploit that fissure. I would contend that since this is a public facing internet resource, to which anyone can join, the obvious rift between cadidate supporters is highly visible. Therefore one would have to consider that an individual could easily adopt a public facing of negativity of a candidate they dislike and misrepresent them. You can see this practice from time to time here on ALIPAC. There are the extremist folk who adopt a portion of the message and mix it with sheer and utter nonsense, or even resort to pretending to be military veteran experts. Why? To either influence the credibility of their message or to create an image that those who believe in A (opposition to illegal immigration) also believe in B, black helicopters rounding up people in putting them into prison camps after "they" create a catastrophe like a meteor strike (just an example of the kind of silly, unsubstantiated examples I have seen). I could wear a Hillary T-Shirt (tho' this would never happen while I am alive) and walk into a crowd of Obama supporters and start a fight in the name of Hillary...This is what I believe may be happening in a digital environment with proclaimed Ron Paul folk. William, you worked as an organizer so you know very well what the McCain campaign and the RNC are capable of.

What I am learning about the Ron Paul campaign is that it is decentralized and places the responsibility of support on individual involvement. The major problem is representation of course, to which there are not many policing elements. Maybe reuqesting directly from the campaign a statement of position and goals would help to contrast against these heathen radicals. And I should note that I am not saying that there aren't nut cases out there who are backing the candidates, I am simply saying due to the decentralized and digital nature of his campaign and the layer of anonymity, it is hard to connect the dots as easy as it would be to say connect McCain with Hernandez. Anytime someone makes a proclamation against the system it is gauranteed to produce at least in some part a turn out of the tin foil hat crowd. With online anonimity it can at times turn into a who's who in mental illness.

I would just say that it will be virtually impossible for ALIPAC to survive without an endorsement of some sort. Aorund May they are going to come after organizations like this very strongly and from what I hear they want to have them compartmentalized by the end of summer. An endorsement of Ron Paul carries with it some negative baggage. Until now William, you have a somewhat positive representative position in the media. Endorsing Ron Paul directly will give the MSM extra ammo to disgard you, which by the way they are working on doing anyway. They can simply paint ALIPAC as a fringe Ron Paul style organization out of touch with mainstream thought. On the other hand, it may be better to endorse the position of Ron Paul and make solid note that this position is also the position of other, or ex presidential candidates. Another words: ALIPAC supports Ron Paul, Tancredo and Duncan Hunters message of ___________. ALIPAC stand firmly behind any candidate that supports ___________. This is different from an endorsement, which the McCain campaign would love for you to make. In my opinion, packaging this as an endorsement of position is best. If Ron Paul happens to be the remaining candidate who supports this position so be it.

But, I would carefully consider this in the context of their intent to marginalize ALIPAC before November.

Chosen wrote:

Endorsing Ron Paul directly will give the MSM extra ammo to disgard you, which by the way they are working on doing anyway. They can simply paint ALIPAC as a fringe Ron Paul style organization out of touch with mainstream thought. On the other hand, it may be better to endorse the position of Ron Paul and make solid note that this position is also the position of other, or ex presidential candidates. Another words: ALIPAC supports Ron Paul, Tancredo and Duncan Hunters message of ___________. ALIPAC stand firmly behind any candidate that supports ___________. This is different from an endorsement, which the McCain campaign would love for you to make. In my opinion, packaging this as an endorsement of position is best. If Ron Paul happens to be the remaining candidate who supports this position so be it.

Well said, Chosen. I couldn't agree more. IMHO, endorsing Ron Paul by name would be very risky business. Honestly, I don't see how such an endorsement could benefit ALIPAC. However, I can definitely see how such an endorsement could be used by our enemies to marginalize the organization and its message.

Ron Paul in my opinion isn't risky, it is the public and RNC image created by the MSM I speak of. He does have a clear cut position against illegal immigration that I agree with and is the only one left who does.

I would add to that this oddity... I think ALIPAC has to make endorsements to survive. There has to be some political connectivity as they are going to basically ramp up a campaign to ostracize ALIPAC and pro-Constitutional folks over the next few months. I personally now support Ron Paul, I just favor shielding ALIPAC from the RINO and MSM's characterization/mis-representation of Paul. This is simply and purely a strategic point based on the favored RNC methodology of assasination by association.

The proper contextualization means everything. ALIPAC members would vote for a candidate that supports enforcing immigration laws. This goes back to my earlier mention of the importance of an illegal immigration caucus. This would allow candidates to attend a forum that ALIPAC hosts that would allow people to make informed decisions based on what the candidates say. If John McCain doesn't show up, that says it all. I also understand that the logistics of this are tough, but this forum, in whatever context it manifests itself, would be important. It is even possible to have a video statement of position by ALIPAC and invite the candidates to post a video response to this.

If there is no indirect support of a politician then ALIPAC dies.

I think that you have to have the conviction of your principles to endorse RP. It takes guts to fight for what you believe in even when others are strongly against you. Look at the times he is the ONLY one in the house that will vote for or against something. Look at the bills he trys to put thru dealing with SS and Medicare for our seniors. He will not compriomise his beliefs in the Constitution and our country while many people call him a kook, a isolationist, etc. For all of those who like his views but won't vote for him because he can't win are not sticking to their principles. That is why we are in the situation we are in today. I have never been involved in politics until I heard about this man and how lobbiests won"t even visit his office. He will not sell out the American people or our country. He will fight for us to the death. He WILL do the will of the people. Who else can you say that about?

Originally Posted by sturmruger

Originally Posted by RJHawkins

Originally Posted by ALIPAC

LordXar,

One of the very big problems I'm starting to develop with possibly endorsing the Ron Paul campaign is the over aggressive, hostile, accusatory, and sometimes flagrantly paranoid messages we are receiving from SOME Ron Paul supporters.

Many of our national supporters like Ron Paul and are voting for Ron Paul, but unfortunately Paul's campaign has also attracted some Lunatic Fringe element.

These people have accused me of being on the take, being paid by Lou Dobbs, working for the CIA, and being a member of the Scull and Bones.

We were threatened by one activist in the west that if we did not utilize our e-mail alert system the way she wanted for Ron Paul she would launch an Internet crusade against ALIPAC. Earlier this week, half my work day was spent dealing with a crazed Ron Paul supporter that did not like one of our emails.

We have been told, a few times, that we will receive no future donations if we don't do this or that. These threats have come exclusively from Ron Paul supporters.

We have been criticized for not endorsing Paul already. We have been criticized for not endorsing Romney beforehand.

We had to ban more people than ever before from our boards due to hostilities between the Paul and Romney supporters that were violating our rules and the Ron Paul supporters were more likely to require banning 2 to 1 over Romney supporters.

ALIPAC has done a great deal to help both Ron Paul and Mitt Romney. The vast majority of our supporters voted for one of the two of them.

If Ron Paul's campaign is going to have a chance, you folks need to reign in this small faction of Ron Paul supporters that are giving the campaign a very bad name.

Other groups in the movement have reported the same kind of overly hostile contacts and wild accusations.

This small cadre of Ron Paul supporters that are acting fanatical and rude are causing the campaign great harm because they are more likely to turn people off to the Ron Paul campaign than to persuade people to join.

My exposure to these people have really dampened my earlier enthusiasm for the Paul campaign.

W

The thought has crossed my mind that (some, many, most of) these 'Ron Paul supporters' of whom you speak may very well not be supporters at all, but operatives in the employ of those who want Dr. Paul's message to be marginalized.

I think we all know that there are people who are paid piles of money to cruise forums such as this and plant statements whose ONLY aim is to discredit that forum. You've seen it here at ALIPAC more than once. There are trolls over at the Ron Paul forums that are doing this 24/7 in an attempt to disrupt and discredit the entire movement.

Absolutely, such as the purported allegation that Glenn Beck was harrassed when no evidence or prosecution was ever known, yet people who watched that interview with RP were tainted!

The attack on Sean Hannity in New Hampshire DEFINITELY happened. He showed it on his television show----and it was brought up on Hannity's radio show as well as many other radio shows.

This fringe, small group of loons----have also done all of the things that William described to MANY people, groups-----including those in the media.

I listen to a lot of the talk show radio hosts-----Levin, Hewitt, Limbaugh, etc.-----the majority have refused to take calls from Ron Paul supporters for a long time. I have listened when a Ron Paul supporter was able to sneak a call in-----and I have heard the host get EXTREMELY angry at the caller, call him/her a nut, and hang up on them.

The media and McCain/Clinton campaigns----as well as maybe even La Raza---- will use guilt by association between Ron Paul and the loons-----and guilt by association between Alipac and anti-illegal activists/groups and the loons.

Also, I think that these fringe groups are capable of getting even "loonier"-----as it becomes more obvious that Ron Paul has no chance of winning the nomination.

There has to be some political connectivity as they are going to basically ramp up a campaign to ostracize ALIPAC and pro-Constitutional folks over the next few months.

Who is they?

I like Ron Paul's policies. I'de love to see him win.

Thank you for all the great information.

Originally Posted by MW

Chosen wrote:

Endorsing Ron Paul directly will give the MSM extra ammo to disgard you, which by the way they are working on doing anyway. They can simply paint ALIPAC as a fringe Ron Paul style organization out of touch with mainstream thought. On the other hand, it may be better to endorse the position of Ron Paul and make solid note that this position is also the position of other, or ex presidential candidates. Another words: ALIPAC supports Ron Paul, Tancredo and Duncan Hunters message of ___________. ALIPAC stand firmly behind any candidate that supports ___________. This is different from an endorsement, which the McCain campaign would love for you to make. In my opinion, packaging this as an endorsement of position is best. If Ron Paul happens to be the remaining candidate who supports this position so be it.

Well said, Chosen. I couldn't agree more. IMHO, endorsing Ron Paul by name would be very risky business. Honestly, I don't see how such an endorsement could benefit ALIPAC. However, I can definitely see how such an endorsement could be used by our enemies to marginalize the organization and its message.

I agree with you.......They will use guilt by association!!

There are many times that skinhead types try to show up at Minuteman protests of illegals. The Minuteman members IMMEDIATELY try to distance themselves from those people----so that there is NO WAY that anyone can try to associate the Minutemen with the skinheads.

About a year ago, there was one protest in California where this skinhead type came up and stood beside a Minuteman member for one brief moment----before the Minuteman member could say to him-----Please have your own protest some place else, we do not want to be seen with your group. The pro-illegal media IMMEDIATELY took advantage of that situation and snapped a picture--- which was in a lot of the papers in California----and they used the picture to say that the Minutemen were associated with the skinheads!!!

People are underestimating what La Raza, SPLC, ACLU, etc.----will do to try to stop any anti-illegal efforts.

For example, they are not even aware that they use plants to continually monitor sites like this-----looking for one word or statement that they can use to say-----"see, we told you that they are nothing but racists, and are dangerous to our country".

Originally Posted by Americanpatriot

There has to be some political connectivity as they are going to basically ramp up a campaign to ostracize ALIPAC and pro-Constitutional folks over the next few months.

Who is they?

I like Ron Paul's policies. I'de love to see him win.

Thank you for all the great information.

Ron Paul gave a speech today to a crowd of 8,500 + enthusiastic supporters at Liberty University. You can see the video at Daily Dose at RP's campaign site.

John McCain gave a speech today to 350 supporters.

Seems RP is picking up supporters from other ex candidate camps.