Thread: Activists denounce man`s clearing in shootings

July 1, 2008, 7:30PM
Activists denounce man's clearing in shootings


By JUAN A. LOZANO Associated Press Writer
© 2008 The Associated Press


HOUSTON — A grand jury's decision to clear a suburban Houston homeowner for shooting to death two men he saw burglarizing his neighbor's home is not the end of the polarizing case, the fiancee of one of the two men said Tuesday.

"This is not over. It's not over by a longshot," said Stephanie Storey, the fiancee of Hernando Riascos Torres.

Storey said she was pondering her legal options, including filing a civil lawsuit.

Torres, 38, along with Diego Ortiz, 30, were fatally shot by Joe Horn, a retired grandfather, after he saw them crawling out the windows of a neighbor's house in the Houston suburb of Pasadena, carrying bags of the neighbor's possessions.

Horn's attorney has said his client shot the two men in November out of fear for his life when they came into his yard and threatened him.

But Storey, while not condoning what her fiancee and the other man did, called the shootings "premeditated murder" because Horn should have waited for police to handle the situation.

Horn, 62, called 911 and but ignored the dispatcher's repeated requests to stay inside, saying he was "gonna kill 'em." Horn confronted the men with a 12-gauge shotgun and shot both in the back.

Autopsy reports released Tuesday show the two men were shot in the back, arms and shoulders

Torres' cause of death was listed as coming from a shotgun wound of the torso and the area around the upper left arm and shoulder, while Ortiz's death came from a shotgun wound to the neck and torso.

"I'm very surprised that these two lives had no value, that someone can take the law into their own hands and shoot them down like animals and absolutely get away with it. I'm more than angry right now," Storey said.

Community activists, who denounced the grand jury's decision on Monday, said they planned to stage a demonstration outside the Harris County District Attorney's office next week.

Community activist Quannel X accused the district attorney's office and the justice system in Harris County of being racist and broken and needing to be fixed.

Torres and Ortiz were unemployed illegal immigrants from Colombia. Horn is white. Torres had been deported to Colombia in 1999 after a 1994 cocaine-related conviction.

"I believe that the racist mind-set that was there when Chuck Rosenthal was leading that office is still in existence in that office today," Quannel X said. "I believe that mind-set would allow a grand jury to be impaneled that is the racial makeup of really one race."

Quannel X said he suspected most of the grand jurors were white and called on the new district attorney, Kenneth Magidson, to release details about the racial makeup of the grand jury that cleared Horn.

Rosenthal, the former district attorney, resigned in February under the weight of a scandal involving the release of dozens of controversial e-mails, including racist ones, found on his office computer.

The city's black activists began to publicly question whether race played a role in several incidents in Rosenthal's career.

His assistant district attorneys were accused of finding creative ways to strike blacks from juries and using racist code words to discuss black jurors.

Donna Hawkins, Magidson's spokeswoman, said a court order issued by the judge who handled the grand jury prevents the release of their names or any other information about the panel.

Grand jury proceedings are secret and normally no information about panel members is made public, she said.

Hawkins also denied Quannel X's claims that race played any role in the grand jury's decision.

"I can absolutely assure you that racial bias did not color the proceedings in this case," she said. "We make every effort to present the law and evidence to the grand jury and it's their decision. Our victims are many colors. Our defendants are many colors. Our oath is to see that justice is done."

Magidson does not intend to present the case to another grand jury, which Quannel X requested on Tuesday.

"A fair assessment of the evidence was done by the grand jury," Hawkins said.

Quannel X said he also planned to lobby legislators to change the law that condoned Horn's actions.

Texas law allows people to use deadly force to protect themselves if it is reasonable to believe they are in mortal danger. In limited circumstances, people also can use deadly force to protect their neighbor's property.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/tx/5866764.html

now the true racist black man comes out of the wood work dragging the fiance' who does not want to condemn what the two did.
they say love is blind, this is the proof

I have a problem with what Mr. Horn did -killed 2 burglars who were fleeing. I thought we valued life over property, but the Grand Jury seems to think it's okay to shoot kids if they enter your yard and try to steal a gnome as a prank. We must make sure the laws are fairly enforced -this means there should be less penalty for stealing a slice of pizza, than stealing the Mona Lisa.
Some of you may be familiar with John White, the Black man who shot and killed a drunk teenager who had made death threats against his family, and then came onto his property with a group of other teenagers looking for a fight. The evidence shows Mr White came out of his house brandishing a gun, yet the teenager was shot from less than a foot away. I ask, would you let someone get that close to you with a gun? Mr White said the gun went off when the teenager tried to grab it. Mr. White was found guilty.
It seems to me Mr Horn got away with murder...

Originally Posted by Expendable

I have a problem with what Mr. Horn did -killed 2 burglars who were fleeing. I thought we valued life over property, but the Grand Jury seems to think it's okay to shoot kids if they enter your yard and try to steal a gnome as a prank. We must make sure the laws are fairly enforced -this means there should be less penalty for stealing a slice of pizza, than stealing the Mona Lisa.
Some of you may be familiar with John White, the Black man who shot and killed a drunk teenager who had made death threats against his family, and then came onto his property with a group of other teenagers looking for a fight. The evidence shows Mr White came out of his house brandishing a gun, yet the teenager was shot from less than a foot away. I ask, would you let someone get that close to you with a gun? Mr White said the gun went off when the teenager tried to grab it. Mr. White was found guilty.
It seems to me Mr Horn got away with murder...

i beg to differ. the plain clothes policeman sitting in the car in front of the house has said that the men made a move towards Horn before turning. that is about the same time he shot.

you can not tell me you would not shot someone if they were on your property, knew they had just broken into your neighbors house, didnt know if they were armed or anything, and started towards you.
See in texas, we have whats called the castle doctrine which allows a person to shot to kill anyone on their property if they feel their life and property are in danger

Quannel X should simply shut the hell up and go away and become a real activist and protest why parents are letting their kids drop out, become pregnant, killing each other, etc., etc....!! Hmmmmmmm notice he's on the side of TWO illegals and the woman who was going to marry one of them. Could this have the pre-tense of a sham marrage for the purpose of have one of the criminals stay in the country and try and get a green card?? Authorities should investigate her sorry behind next. If these two "suspected" criminals were not in this country in the first place, they would not be dead. If they had been here LEGALLY and on a JOB, they would not be dead. Put the pieces together and get a clue!!!

Originally Posted by jamesw62

Originally Posted by Expendable

I have a problem with what Mr. Horn did -killed 2 burglars who were fleeing. I thought we valued life over property, but the Grand Jury seems to think it's okay to shoot kids if they enter your yard and try to steal a gnome as a prank. We must make sure the laws are fairly enforced -this means there should be less penalty for stealing a slice of pizza, than stealing the Mona Lisa.
Some of you may be familiar with John White, the Black man who shot and killed a drunk teenager who had made death threats against his family, and then came onto his property with a group of other teenagers looking for a fight. The evidence shows Mr White came out of his house brandishing a gun, yet the teenager was shot from less than a foot away. I ask, would you let someone get that close to you with a gun? Mr White said the gun went off when the teenager tried to grab it. Mr. White was found guilty.
It seems to me Mr Horn got away with murder...

i beg to differ. the plain clothes policeman sitting in the car in front of the house has said that the men made a move towards Horn before turning. that is about the same time he shot.

you can not tell me you would not shot someone if they were on your property, knew they had just broken into your neighbors house, didnt know if they were armed or anything, and started towards you.
See in texas, we have whats called the castle doctrine which allows a person to shot to kill anyone on their property if they feel their life and property are in danger

Did you hear the 911 call? I want you to count the seconds between when he says "move, you're dead" and the first gunshot. I want you to visualize what happened, based on the facts as we know them -not what the cop in the car said. This is the same cop who didn't recognize the 2 men as burglars -just what exactly was he supposed to be doing there anyway...
The facts show both were shot in the back. If it's true they started towards him with loot in their arms, but then turned away after seeing the gun, then it's a fact he shot 2 fleeing burglars.
All I'm saying is I thought we valued human life over property. Your argument says it's okay for a homeowner to shoot 2 kids as they're running away from his/her property with a garden gnome in tow.
Just look up the John White case, and tell me if you think he should've been convicted. I'm waiting!..

Originally Posted by Expendable

Did you hear the 911 call? I want you to count the seconds between when he says "move, you're dead" and the first gunshot. I want you to visualize what happened, based on the facts as we know them -not what the cop in the car said. This is the same cop who didn't recognize the 2 men as burglars -just what exactly was he supposed to be doing there anyway...
The facts show both were shot in the back. If it's true they started towards him with loot in their arms, but then turned away after seeing the gun, then it's a fact he shot 2 fleeing burglars.
All I'm saying is I thought we valued human life over property. Your argument says it's okay for a homeowner to shoot 2 kids as they're running away from his/her property with a garden gnome in tow.
Just look up the John White case, and tell me if you think he should've been convicted. I'm waiting!..

i heard the 911 call, remember the dispatcher is a civilian, not a member of any police force. i did visualize what happened and what the officer has said based on reports in houston media. One was actually shot in the side towards the back, which would be consistant with someone turning away from mr horn.
the castle doctrine that went into effect last september in Texas gives property owners the right to defend themsevles and as the robbers were crossing into his yard. he had no idea what they would do to him, if anything, and hes not taking any chances. and neither would I. especially if someone started to come after me and was only 10-12 feet away

Would you charge a man holding a shotgun? There is no delay between him threatening them and him shooting them on the 911 call. A police officer who did the same thing would be under investigation for using deadly force when not warranted. It's as if you just won't accept the facts of the case. How do you justify shooting a man that hasn't shot at you, and is running away from you...

Originally Posted by Expendable

Would you charge a man holding a shotgun? There is no delay between him threatening them and him shooting them on the 911 call. A police officer who did the same thing would be under investigation for using deadly force when not warranted. It's as if you just won't accept the facts of the case. How do you justify shooting a man that hasn't shot at you, and is running away from you...

again, as the one suspect came toward horn then turned away is about the time he got shot.

Originally Posted by jamesw62

Originally Posted by Expendable

Would you charge a man holding a shotgun? There is no delay between him threatening them and him shooting them on the 911 call. A police officer who did the same thing would be under investigation for using deadly force when not warranted. It's as if you just won't accept the facts of the case. How do you justify shooting a man that hasn't shot at you, and is running away from you...

again, as the one suspect came toward horn then turned away is about the time he got shot.

Okay, they've been showing Horn talking to officers after the shooting. He NEVER says they came towards him, but he does says the guy was trying to run away. His statements are in contrast to what he told the 911 operator. He went from cocky to scared in a matter of 3 shots. It just saddens me to see so many folks who think it's okay to shoot an unarmed burglar who is trying to get away. Again, a police officer would be in trouble if he/she shot an unarmed suspect who was trying to escape arrest.
When you juxtapose the John White case and the Horn case, it becomes apparent that a black life is worth less than a white life. I live near Dallas, and I've seen killers get probation for taking a human life, yet Mike Vick is in jail for financing dog fighting. Does that sound right to you -a dog's life is worth more than that of a black man?..