Thread: AZ: Panel OKs bill to bar punitive damages for illegals

Panel OKs bill to bar punitive damages for illegal immigrants
February 16, 2011 8:17 PM
BY HOWARD FISCHER - CAPITOL MEDIA SERVICES

PHOENIX — A House panel on Wednesday approved legislation designed to benefit one man: Cochise rancher Roger Barnett.

The measure would spell out that anyone who is in this country illegally cannot collect punitive damages even after winning a lawsuit.

Voters already approved a constitutional amendment doing precisely that in 2006. But that came nearly two years too late for Barnett, who was sued following a 2004 incident when 16 illegal immigrants said the rancher illegally imprisoned them.

HB 2191 makes that ballot measure retroactive to the beginning of 2004.

If it survives the legislative process — and if it is found legal — the change could save Barnett $60,000, the amount of punitive damages four of the plaintiffs were awarded two years ago. Rep. Jim Weiers, R-Phoenix, said that's exactly what he has in mind.

Jaime Ferrant of the Border Action Network said the measure “sets a dangerous precedent.â€

Suck wind MALDEF

EXCELLENT!

"He said nearly 75 percent of those voting in 2006 approved the constitutional change. Weiers said that is a clear indication of the will of the people."

Yes it is!

[quote="jamesw62"]
“This bill would establish that a certain person, or certain persons, are so important that we must make sure that they get their own set of laws to protect them,â€

The constitution guarantees against post defacto laws. The harm to all of us if this law passes is far greater than the harm of the judgment already rendered. For those who do not know, post defacto means that a law can not be retroactive. The law in place at the time of the incident is the law that rules at the trial.

Imagine if we got rid of this law. Congress could pass a law making long hair a felony. Someone produces a picture of you taken 20 years ago with long hair, without post defacto, you could be charged. (I know the example was lame, but I am trying to show that without this clause, anything we do today, that becomes illegal tomorrow but is legal today, could get us locked up.)

[quote="ReformUSA2012"][quote="jamesw62"]
“This bill would establish that a certain person, or certain persons, are so important that we must make sure that they get their own set of laws to protect them,â€

Originally Posted by cayla99

The constitution guarantees against post defacto laws. The harm to all of us if this law passes is far greater than the harm of the judgment already rendered. For those who do not know, post defacto means that a law can not be retroactive. The law in place at the time of the incident is the law that rules at the trial.

Imagine if we got rid of this law. Congress could pass a law making long hair a felony. Someone produces a picture of you taken 20 years ago with long hair, without post defacto, you could be charged. (I know the example was lame, but I am trying to show that without this clause, anything we do today, that becomes illegal tomorrow but is legal today, could get us locked up.)

But this isn't Congress. This is a state. And these aren't citizens, these are illegal aliens. Congress violates the ex post facto provision of the US Constitution all the time with tax laws that go into effect during or at the end of the tax year that apply retroactively to the portion of the year already passed.

Also, this law applies to civil matters, not criminal matters, and it applies to people who don't or shouldn't have legal rights to sue in our country to begin with, because they have no standing to file suits in our country, because their illegal status revokes any such rights they would have otherwise had for civil damages if they were legal litigants.

Take other aspects of civil law. If you have a corporation or a limited liability company that's behind on their annual $200 a year or whatever it is in each state to keep their corporation or other entity registered with the state, they can't file a lawsuit for damages and if they win a jury award the loser doesn't have to pay it, all because the plaintiff entity was behind on their payments to the Secretary of State of the state where they're registered. And the basis for that is that unless you have complied with the law to be a legal entity, you have no litigation rights in the US because you have no legal standing, because you have no jurisdiction. It's no different with illegal aliens. If they are in our country and a state illegally, then they have no standing in the civil courts of that state or our federal courts.

If the law of standing and jurisdiction and the legal theories that support the right to sue in the United States were applied uniformly to individuals as it's applied every day to our corporations and business entities, then this case would have been thrown out on its butt like it should been in 2004. No illegal alien has any right to sue for civil damages in the United States, because they have no standing in any state in which that suit could be filed, because they are present in that jurisdiction in violation of US immigration law and therefore not subject to our jurisdiction as a matter of law and thus have no standing for protection under it.

Why defense lawyers haven't used this argument to knock these cases out of the park is completely beyond me. But it's well past time they started using their legal noggins and this argument to bat these frivolous and absurd cases out of our courts once and for all.

The measure would spell out that anyone who is in this country illegally cannot collect punitive damages even after winning a lawsuit.

I wish Virginia could also have steeper laws against illegal aliens crime activities, and this State would also eliminate employers from hiring undocumented aliens over American citizens.

I heard a man say the other day, him and his family have lost almost everything they worked for their entire lives because they cannot find work. That is very sad, but so many other labor and unskilled workers are facing the same situations and this is because undocumented aliens have replaced them in work places throughout the Country.

Many more illegal immigrants will arrive to the U.S. because we Americans are too soft on our laws and they will try to take control of this Country, the same as they have almost done in their homelands.

[quote]“This bill would establish that a certain person, or certain persons, are so important that we must make sure that they get their own set of laws to protect them,â€

[quote="NoBueno"][quote]“This bill would establish that a certain person, or certain persons, are so important that we must make sure that they get their own set of laws to protect them,â€

[quote="NoBueno"][quote]“This bill would establish that a certain person, or certain persons, are so important that we must make sure that they get their own set of laws to protect them,â€