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  1. #11
    Senior Member Judy's Avatar
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    Trump has done tons of stuff about this "immigration problem" and there's lots more he is doing and plans to do. No President since Dwight Eisenhower, has done more or will do more. That's why when he does a Mid-Term Rally, the candidates get a Trump Bump. Can Trump alone defy history and bring these mid-terms home for Republicans? I don't know, but if anyone can, he will. So much at stake and all on the back of one guy, named Donald J Trump.

    You will not turn Trump Supporters against him. That is pure folly. You will reinforce some DemoQuacks. You could jeopardize some close elections that depend on independents and hand over a chamber of our Congress to DemoQuacks. That's all you're doing, whether that is your goal or not. That is the only obvious clear outcome of your posts. If it is not intentional, then that is quite a serious mistake you are making and extremely harmful to our country.

    The United States is by design in perpetual election mode, it's the way our founders set up our federal system with 2 year Congressional terms with 1/3 of the US Senate up for grabs every 2 years. I'm sorry you're unhappy with our Constitution, but that's the way it is, I think it's a very good system, the best in the world ever, even when my team loses, it is still the will of the people based on the campaigns and the elections, and that's how our government was designed to function and that's the way it is. If you lose, you either didn't do a good job getting out the message or the people didn't agree with your message. Sometimes like right now, it's a very close call across the board.
    Last edited by Judy; 09-10-2018 at 10:19 AM.
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  2. #12
    Senior Member stoptheinvaders's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Judy View Post
    Trump has done tons of stuff about this "immigration problem" and there's lots more he is doing and plans to do. No President since Dwight Eisenhower, has done more or will do more. That's why when he does a Mid-Term Rally, the candidates get a Trump Bump. Can Trump alone defy history and bring these mid-terms home for Republicans? I don't know, but if anyone can, he will. So much at stake and all on the back of one guy, named Donald J Trump.

    You will not turn Trump Supporters against him. That is pure folly. You will reinforce some DemoQuacks. You could jeopardize some close elections that depend on independents and hand over a chamber of our Congress to DemoQuacks. That's all you're doing, whether that is your goal or not. That is the only obvious clear outcome of your posts. If it is not intentional, then that is quite a serious mistake you are making and extremely harmful to our country.

    The United States is by design in perpetual election mode, it's the way our founders set up our federal system with 2 year Congressional terms with 1/3 of the US Senate up for grabs every 2 years. I'm sorry you're unhappy with our Constitution, but that's the way it is, I think it's a very good system, the best in the world ever, even when my team loses, it is still the will of the people based on the campaigns and the elections, and that's how our government was designed to function and that's the way it is. If you lose, you either didn't do a good job getting out the message or the people didn't agree with your message. Sometimes like right now, it's a very close call across the board.
    I am only asking the Trump supporters who claim to be against illegal immigration to stand with one voice and hold Trump accountable to his campaign promises. Is that too much to ask?
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    You've got to Stand for Something or You'll Fall for Anything

  3. #13
    Senior Member Judy's Avatar
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    Absolutely, it is too much to ask. It's also wrong to ask it. Do you not know how political and deadly the immigration issue is in this country? Why do you think Hillary Clinton won the popular vote? Trump didn't win the election on the immigration issue, Trump won the election through a solid message of fixing our country that includes among other things solving the immigration issue. He got votes for fixing the bad trade deals, he got votes for fixing the immigration issue, he got votes for bringing our good jobs back, running the government more efficiently, putting America First, lowering taxes to make our companies more competitive and bringing offshore capital back into the country, deregulation, re-opening the coal mines, approving the pipelines, forcing NATO to pay their fair share so we can spend less on their defense, he was elected for many many reasons, some people like me supported almost all of his goals, others supported two or three, and some supported one or two. Trade and immigration were important ones, but they were not winners in the high-population states, they were winners in the 30 states. Mid-terms are nationwide, not by state, they are district by district and many districts do not hold all of our views on immigration. Of all the issues, the immigration issue is the most complicated, it's the hardest one to solve and the hardest one to win a district on in high population states, blue states, and that is where we have to win to keep our majority and gain seats in the Senate which Trump wants to do so we hopefully have a supermajority in the Senate next year so we can actually pass all the bills we desperately want and need.

    So yes, what you are asking is wrong and not the right thing at all on any level. Next year IF we have a majority in the House AND a Supermajority in the Senate, then everyone needs to unite behind the good bills that are in Congress and get them passed so we can fix this mess on immigration and also continue fixing other aspects of our country that need repair and improvement. Even if all that happens, there will not be "one voice" on the solutions, there is one voice on the overall goal, but as should be clear as crystal to you, not even people who have worked together to fix this mess here at ALIPAC even agree on how to do it, and that's been the case for all 13 years I've been here. The goal is simple, the traditional means to achieve it are not.

    To wail and whine about this issue now is not only just plain wrong, it's dangerous. If Congress is doing something bad and they may be, they're a sneaky bunch, wail and whine at them, but not at Trump, there's nothing more Trump can or will do on our issue beyond what he's already put in place or has in motion until after the mid-terms, because nothing is more important right now and for the next 58 days but winning the mid-terms for Republicans. It must be smooth messaging and everyone working together to win those elections, because if we lose them, you just lost the country.
    A Nation Without Borders Is Not A Nation - Ronald Reagan
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  4. #14
    Senior Member stoptheinvaders's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Judy View Post
    Absolutely, it is too much to ask. It's also wrong to ask it. Do you not know how political and deadly the immigration issue is in this country? Why do you think Hillary Clinton won the popular vote? Trump didn't win the election on the immigration issue, Trump won the election through a solid message of fixing our country that includes among other things solving the immigration issue. He got votes for fixing the bad trade deals, he got votes for fixing the immigration issue, he got votes for bringing our good jobs back, running the government more efficiently, putting America First, lowering taxes to make our companies more competitive and bringing offshore capital back into the country, deregulation, re-opening the coal mines, approving the pipelines, forcing NATO to pay their fair share so we can spend less on their defense, he was elected for many many reasons, some people like me supported almost all of his goals, others supported two or three, and some supported one or two. Trade and immigration were important ones, but they were not winners in the high-population states, they were winners in the 30 states. Mid-terms are nationwide, not by state, they are district by district and many districts do not hold all of our views on immigration. Of all the issues, the immigration issue is the most complicated, it's the hardest one to solve and the hardest one to win a district on in high population states, blue states, and that is where we have to win to keep our majority and gain seats in the Senate which Trump wants to do so we hopefully have a supermajority in the Senate next year so we can actually pass all the bills we desperately want and need.

    So yes, what you are asking is wrong and not the right thing at all on any level. Next year IF we have a majority in the House AND a Supermajority in the Senate, then everyone needs to unite behind the good bills that are in Congress and get them passed so we can fix this mess on immigration and also continue fixing other aspects of our country that need repair and improvement. Even if all that happens, there will not be "one voice" on the solutions, there is one voice on the overall goal, but as should be clear as crystal to you, not even people who have worked together to fix this mess here at ALIPAC even agree on how to do it, and that's been the case for all 13 years I've been here. The goal is simple, the traditional means to achieve it are not.

    To wail and whine about this issue now is not only just plain wrong, it's dangerous. If Congress is doing something bad and they may be, they're a sneaky bunch, wail and whine at them, but not at Trump, there's nothing more Trump can or will do on our issue beyond what he's already put in place or has in motion until after the mid-terms, because nothing is more important right now and for the next 58 days but winning the mid-terms for Republicans. It must be smooth messaging and everyone working together to win those elections, because if we lose them, you just lost the country.
    If bringing attention to illegals marching through our military bases or asking that military take action because border control is being shot at is considered wail and whine, then I am on the wrong forum.

    I was under the impression that ALIPAC was about the problems of illegal immigration. I was not aware that anyone who was asking that Trump be held accountable for his campaign promises would be berated and condemned. I have run into this same problem on another forum where the Trump cult has taken over the board. Their aggressiveness has run off any and all who wanted to or tried to speak out about immigration.

    Sad to see this happening here.
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  5. #15
    Senior Member JohnDoe2's Avatar
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    At least two bullets struck the driverís side of a Border Patrol vehicle near the U.S.-Mexico border, but the agent was not injured. (U.S. Customs and Border Protection)
    NO AMNESTY

    Don't reward the criminal actions of millions of illegal aliens by giving them citizenship.


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  6. #16
    MW
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    Quote Originally Posted by stoptheinvaders View Post
    If bringing attention to illegals marching through our military bases or asking that military take action because border control is being shot at is considered wail and whine, then I am on the wrong forum.

    I was under the impression that ALIPAC was about the problems of illegal immigration. I was not aware that anyone who was asking that Trump be held accountable for his campaign promises would be berated and condemned. I have run into this same problem on another forum where the Trump cult has taken over the board. Their aggressiveness has run off any and all who wanted to or tried to speak out about immigration.

    Sad to see this happening here.
    Not to worry. Judy tends to forget why many of us are actually here. I agree that we should hold all of our elected representatives feet to the fire when necessary and that includes President Trump. I'm sure William Gheen, the founder of ALIPAC, would tell you the same thing.

    IMO, Judy is under the misguided belief that everyone should think just as she does and anyone that thinks differently is the enemy.


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  7. #17
    Senior Member Judy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stoptheinvaders View Post
    If bringing attention to illegals marching through our military bases or asking that military take action because border control is being shot at is considered wail and whine, then I am on the wrong forum.

    I was under the impression that ALIPAC was about the problems of illegal immigration. I was not aware that anyone who was asking that Trump be held accountable for his campaign promises would be berated and condemned. I have run into this same problem on another forum where the Trump cult has taken over the board. Their aggressiveness has run off any and all who wanted to or tried to speak out about immigration.

    Sad to see this happening here.
    Do you read your own posts? You berate me as a "cult member", a "blind cheerleader", "the blind who refuse to see". I'm just telling you simple political facts, which I'm sure you know which is why I didn't bother posting it before you ASKED ME for my opinion. I give it to you and now I'm "berating" you? No, ma'am. No one is berating you. You are berating us. To give you some history of our organization, our ALIPAC endorsed President Trump for President and did so during a primary, something it has never done before and will probably never do again, because our membership was split. About 70% supported Trump and 30% supported Ted Cruz. Many of the Cruz supporters were very upset. So our ALIPAC is a forum of people who all want to stop illegal immigration but do not agree on the means to do so, or even on political candidates we want to solve the problem. Now I suspect most Cruz supporters ultimately supported or at least voted for Donald Trump, but some didn't, and many of those who did, resented having to do so.

    There is no "one voice" out there on this issue. You will not find that anywhere in this country. So you are chasing a unicorn and jeopardizing the ability of Republicans to win the mid-terms, and Trump's ability to help them win them, and maybe winning the mid-terms by Republicans doesn't matter to you. ALIPAC has a diverse membership of mostly Republicans and Conservatives, but many Independents and yes even some Democrats and Libertarians. We are diverse with the common thread of wanting to stop illegal immigration and also usually reducing legal immigration. Also, we are a lobbying organization, our role is to elect candidates for public office who support our goal of 1) preventing amnesty and 2) stopping illegal immigration.

    There is nothing you are asking anyone to do that hasn't been asked by ALIPACERS for 14 years. We've called, howled, whined, screamed, threatened, emailed, faxed for 14 years on "troops to the border", "secure our borders", secure our communities, secure our towns, our cities, our states, our everything .... and so far, the first person to actually do anything for us is Donald J Trump who has reduced the levels, increased enforcement, built some barriers, deported gangs, criminals, ended DACA to the extent he can, subject to these awful court orders, increased immigration judges, increased Border Patrol Agents, issued travel bans, ended Catch and Release until courts ordered otherwise, reduced refugees, changed the rules for asylum seeking, sent 4,000 National Guard troops to the border area, detained illegal aliens to the extent possible subject to court orders, tried to pass a massive bill with 70 immigration goals through the Congress, with a compromise on DACA for the DemoQuacks to approve it, but they chose not to, and that's where we are. To pass the bills we want, we need 10 more Republicans in the US Senate and a clear majority in the US House of Representatives.

    So anything that any of us say or do that hurts Trump or Republicans in their effort to keep as well as increase their seats in the US Congress is a negative activity, contrary to the goal of ever being able to stop illegal immigration or fix our country.

    That is not "berating" you, that is just informing you of the political facts of the matter at hand. You're a free person and can say and do whatever you want. So are we. Just a fact of the matter at hand.

    Last edited by Judy; 09-10-2018 at 12:40 PM.
    A Nation Without Borders Is Not A Nation - Ronald Reagan
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  8. #18
    Senior Member Judy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MW View Post
    Not to worry. Judy tends to forget why many of us are actually here. I agree that we should hold all of our elected representatives feet to the fire when necessary and that includes President Trump. I'm sure William Gheen, the founder of ALIPAC, would tell you the same thing.

    IMO, Judy is under the misguided belief that everyone should think just as she does and anyone that thinks differently is the enemy.


    LOL!! You know it's days like this, that I would actually get a big kick out of watching you post about President Booker. But then I just love my country too much to let that fly without a fight.

    A Nation Without Borders Is Not A Nation - Ronald Reagan
    Save America, Deport Congress! - Judy

    Support our FIGHT AGAINST illegal immigration & Amnesty by joining our E-mail Alerts at https://eepurl.com/cktGTn

  9. #19
    Senior Member JohnDoe2's Avatar
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    NO AMNESTY

    Don't reward the criminal actions of millions of illegal aliens by giving them citizenship.


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