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Thread: CNN---it was not undocumented---but" toxic masculinity'" that caused Mollie's death

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  1. #1
    Senior Member stoptheinvaders's Avatar
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    CNN---it was not undocumented---but" toxic masculinity'" that caused Mollie's death

    A startling number of women say they have been harassed while running

    By David Williams, CNN
    Updated 5:39 PM ET, Thu August 23, 2018

    Jessica Rudd runs at least 30 miles a week and says she frequently gets harassed.

    (CNN)Jessica Rudd has been running for 10 years and says she gets rude comments or some other form of harassment from men at least once a week.

    Mollie Tibbetts autopsy finds that she died by multiple sharp force injuries

    But Tibbetts' case has raised safety questions for women runners, a startling number of whom say they have faced harassment, or worse, from men who seem to view an athletic woman in shorts or jogging pants as an invitation for lewd or frightening behavior.
    Survey finds widespread harassment

    In 2016 Runner's World asked its readers, "How often, if ever, does a stranger whistle at you, comment on your body, needlessly honk at you, or give you other similar unsolicited sexual attention?"

    Forty-three percent of women runners said they sometimes, often or always experienced such behavior. Only 4% percent of men did.

    According to court documents, Rivera said in an interview that when he approached Tibbetts, she pulled out her cell phone and said she was going to "call the police" and that made him get angry.

    CNN contributor Symone D. Sanders argued this week that the main safety issue in the Tibbetts case was not Rivera's status as an undocumented farm worker from Mexico but his "toxic masculinity" and the suspect's unwillingness to take no for an answer.
    Symone D. Sanders


    Mollie Tibbetts was murdered b/c she told a man to leave her alone while she was jogging. Her murderer happens to be undocumented. This isn’t about border security. This is about toxic masculinity. Mollie Tibbetts lost her life b/c a man couldn’t take her saying no. Full stop.

    3:46 PM - Aug 22, 2018

    The Runner's World survey found that violence against women joggers is rare. Only 3% said they had been grabbed, groped, or otherwise physically assaulted -- but that doesn't make the other behavior less frightening.

    -- 30% of women said they have been followed by a person in a car, bicycle or on foot
    -- 18% said they have been sexually propositioned
    -- 5% said they have been flashed
    And 54% of women said they were concerned at least sometimes while running, or getting ready to run, that they could be physically assaulted or have unwanted physical contact.

    Some of Mollie Tibbetts' family don't want her death politicized

    To protect themselves, many women told Runner's World they'd changed their running routes, brought their phones with them or told loved ones where they'd be running.
    Running coach Eladio Valdez told CNN affiliate WDAF that women should be aware of their surroundings and try to run with a buddy.
    "You find people to run with, even just one person, that will dramatically lower the risk of anything happening. And if you do like to run by yourself, pick well lit, highly populated roads with other pedestrians or cars," he said.
    'It's probably best to just keep running'

    Rudd said she hasn't changed her training patterns because of the Tibbetts case. But she always takes precautions to stay safe.

    She doesn't run in unfamiliar areas after dark and she won't run alone in places that may be dangerous. On a recent work trip, she used an app to find a recommended route and checked with the hotel concierge to make sure it would be safe.

    The Atlanta woman says she's usually too focused on her runs to react to abuse, so she tries to tune it out.

    What's really upsetting to her is when men -- or women who don't run -- downplay the harassment or ask why she would put herself in bad situations by running alone.

    "I don't necessarily want to get in my car and drive 30 minutes to meet other people at six in the morning," she said. "I just want to open my door and run outside and get it done."

    Rudd said the harassment she faces is usually verbal, but sometimes a man will try to touch her butt or block the sidewalk so she has to run in the street to avoid "accidentally" brushing against him.
    That sometimes makes her want to turn around and sock the man, but she fears it could provoke an even more violent response.
    "So you just keep running like it didn't happen, and then you're mad at yourself because you wish you did something else," she said. "But it's probably best to just keep running."

    Rudd says she doesn't bother changing her running route after someone bothers her because "I would have nowhere to run if I did that."

    "I could run on Peachtree Street in broad daylight in front of police officers and a guy on the street will (still) say something to me," she said. "Most of the time, no reaction is the best reaction, so I just try to tune it out."

    If you need support or advice on how to deal with harassment, call the toll-free National Street Harassment Hotline at 1-855-897-5910.

    The Atlanta Ph.D student runs 30 to 35 miles a week -- more if she's training for a big race -- and often while alone. When someone harasses her, she grits her teeth and tries to ignore them.

    "It's hard to always tell if it's meant to be funny ... but almost always it comes off as sketchy," Rudd, 33, told CNN.

    There's a world of difference between catcalls or wolf whistles and the fatal violence that befell Mollie Tibbetts, who disappeared last month after going out for an evening run in Brooklyn, Iowa. Authorities say her suspected killer, Cristhian Bahena Rivera, followed her in his car as she ran along a country road before assaulting her.

    Last edited by stoptheinvaders; 08-23-2018 at 10:21 PM.
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  2. #2
    Super Moderator GeorgiaPeach's Avatar
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    The danger to the lives of American citizens from illegal aliens should not exist no matter the reason.
    Matthew 19:26
    But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

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  3. #3
    Senior Member Judy's Avatar
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    CNN is so clueless. He didn't kill her because he was an illegal alien, he killed her because he was in our country and able to do so. If he wasn't in our country, he couldn't have killed her. Just like if illegal aliens weren't in our country, they wouldn't be able to rob our coffers of $113 billion a year in government benefits. Just like if illegal aliens weren't in our country, they wouldn't be able to steal millions of jobs from Americans. Just like if illegal aliens weren't in our country, they wouldn't be able to breed anchor babies. Just like if illegal aliens weren't in our country, they wouldn't be stealing seats in colleges from American Kids.
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  4. #4
    Senior Member 6 Million Dollar Man's Avatar
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    The Mollie Tibbetts killing is not about immigration,

    Mollie Tibbetts and Cristhian Bahena Rivera (Photos: AP Images)The monthlong search for Mollie Tibbetts came to a tragic end this week when investigators located the 20-year-old’s body in a cornfield near her hometown of Brooklyn, Iowa. Tibbetts, who was set to start her sophomore year at the University of Iowa this week, was dogsitting for her boyfriend at the time of her disappearance and was last seen jogging on the evening of July 18.

    Investigators say they solved the case through security footage of Tibbetts running, leading them to the owner of a Chevy Malibu: Cristhian Bahena Rivera. During an interrogation, police said, the 24-year-old farm worker confessed to following Tibbetts, saying he was inexplicably “drawn” to her and that after he exited his car to run alongside her, Tibbetts threatened to call the police — which made him angry. After that, investigators say Rivera told them, he “blacked out” and woke up later to find her dead in his car.

    Since the Mexico native is an undocumented immigrant, conversations in the wake of his arrest have inevitably turned political. But as Tibbetts’s cousin is speaking out against the politicization of her death, others are taking to social media to make another point: that regardless of Rivera’s legal status, if what police say he told them is accurate, the killing is a grave example of toxic masculinity. defines toxic masculinity as “a narrow and repressive description of manhood, designating manhood as defined by violence, sex, status, and aggression. It’s the cultural ideal of manliness, where strength is everything while emotions are a weakness.” While it’s impossible to know for sure if toxic masculinity prompted Tibbetts’s death, the notion that her alleged killer was set off by her rejecting his advances certainly fits the bill.

    It’s circumstances like these that Jackson Katz, PhD, author of the book The Macho Paradox, has been trying to unpack for years. Katz’s TED talk on the topic, titled “Violence against women — it’s a men issue,” has close to 2 million views, and the Mentors in Violence Prevention program he pioneered is taught to athletes and students around the world.

    While Katz is careful to note that any comment on Tibbetts’s case is speculation, he says the narrative is a familiar one. “If the story is true, it fits a predictable pattern — which is, men using violence to redress grievances,” Katz tells Yahoo Lifestyle. “In other words, he feels like he was disrespected by her, and he was responding to perceived challenges to his authority. Violence is the quickest way for men to gain what they think has been taken from them.”

    It’s a tool that is used often. Of the more than 100 mass shootings that have occurred in the U.S. since 1982, just two of them have been committed by women. It’s a trend mirrored in other violent crimes. According to the Federal Bureau of Statistics, men make up 99 percent of arrests for forcible rape, 88 percent of arrests for murder, and 80 percent of arrests for violent crimes overall.

    So where does this tendency toward violence come from?

    Katz says it’s a learned skill, one with roots in outdated definitions of manhood. “Men — especially those who buy into traditional gender ideologies — view vulnerability as something that’s inconsistent with being a strong man,” he explains. “The easiest way to cover feelings of vulnerability is violence and anger. Men are taught that anger is a socially acceptable emotion for them to experience and that violence is a socially sanctioned reaction. That’s the appropriate way to ‘reassert his manhood,’ if you will.”

    So while killings like that of Tibbetts may seem like random acts of violence, Katz says, the painful truth is that they’re often the result of deeply ingrained beliefs. “Violence is usually not impulsive,” says Katz. “There is usually a belief system that underlines these actions. If you start getting under the surface of violent acts, it’s men trying to regain control. Women don’t have the same underlying belief systems, but men are taught that violence is connected to manhood.”

    Although Katz worries that a hyper-masculine president may be exacerbating the problem, he says there are things that can be done to unravel this thinking. “It’s one of the great tragedies of our species, how much abusive behavior is connected to men caught up in this narrow understanding of manhood,” he says. “One of things we need to do is repeat over and over that acknowledging vulnerability isn’t a weakness: It’s a strength. You don’t always have to have the answer, you don’t always have to be in control. Men who do that aren’t demonstrating strength.”

  5. #5
    Senior Member 6 Million Dollar Man's Avatar
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    Feb 2017
    The media is out in full force trying to defend these illegal alien killers. It really sickens me.

  6. #6
    Super Moderator Newmexican's Avatar
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    Heart of Dixie
    "Toxic Masculinity" is the norm in Mexico. It is so culteraly entrenched that there are organized protests in Mexico against the treatment of women. CNN has actually just made the case that unvetted males from Mexico may not be a good cultural fit in our current society.

    After seeing the pictures of the little peacock that killed Mollie Tibbetts, my impression is that he considers himself "Macho".JMO

    Making a noise about machismo in Mexico

    By Katy WatsonBBC Mexico and Central America reporter
    20 May 2016

    Many Mexicans are fighting to stop all-too-common violence against women"Machismo has to die," chanted protesters as they walked through the centre of Mexico City last month.
    Thousands of people came out onto the streets to say enough was enough.

    The macho culture is all pervasive in Mexico and many of those at the march think its emphasis on male pride is a contributing factor in the high rates of violence against women that Mexico is experiencing.
    It is estimated that nine out of 10 women (link in Spanish) have been subjected to sexual violence, whether on the streets or at home.

    'Tired of the violence'

    "I'm here because I'm tired of the violence against women in Mexico," said Ana Carlota Velazquez, a student.

    "I'm tired of living it and hearing it happen to my friends, in the streets, on public transport, in university and at work."

    The women were joined by thousands of men. Many were carrying placards.

    "I need feminism too", read one. Another read: "Because she's my sister, my girlfriend, my wife."


    "We want to stay alive," other protesters shouted.

    The extreme end of gender violence is femicide, the intentional murder of a woman because she is a woman.

    Mexicans fed up with high levels of violence against women took to the streets

    It is a particular problem in Mexico. According to the country's National Commission to Prevent and Eradicate Violence against Women (CONAVIM), on average six women die a violent death each day (link in Spanish) in Mexico.

    Accurate figures are hard to come by. States differ in the way they collect data and in how honest they are with the figures.

    Even CONAVIM admitted getting accurate data was a challenge.

    This is made harder by the fact that it is hard to prove that a murder was committed because gender alone. As a result, femicides are massively under-reported.

    In a country where up to 99% of crimes go unsolved, many victims' families often do not go to authorities for help because they believe it will not change anything.

    Murdered in Mexico State

    Irinea Buendia's sign which shows a photo of her daughter translates as: "I did not kill myself. You killed me"

    Ciudad Juarez used to be known as the most violent city in Mexico, a city where hundreds of women went missing.

    But Ecatepec, part of poor Mexico State on the edge of the capital, has now surpassed the reputation Ciudad Juarez once had.

    Irinea Buendia lives in Mexico State, not far from Ecatepec. She says her daughter Mariana was killed by her husband.

    He had a history of violence and had threatened to kill her. But when Mariana was found hanged in the marital home, her death was recorded as a suicide.

    "The first thing they say is 'what did you daughter do for him to treat her like that? What did she do to make him kill her?'," Ms Buendia tells me.

    "But men don't own women. Just because there's a problem in a relationship or in a marriage doesn't mean that murder is the answer."

    Therapy - is it hard to be a man?

    On the other side of Mexico state, a workshop is trying to tackle the root of the problem.

    A group of men - and two women - are sitting in a classroom, with a psychologist at the whiteboard.

    "Is it hard to be a man?" he asks the class.

    There is a real mix of responses from the participants. One breaks down as he tries to explain his point of view.

    Another says no, if you know how to behave decently, it should not be hard at all.

    One of the participants, Alberto Trinidad Martinez Nava, was sentenced to 28 years in prison for raping and killing two women.

    He is now free and says his attitude has changed.

    "It was all about me," he says. "Machismo - it was just me, me, me. I belittled women. I had that bad attitude that women would be under my control but I know that not to be true now."

    'Violence is accepted'

    "If we only focus on the victim, the perpetrator will continue to be violent in new relationships," says Marisol Zarco Reyes, a psychologist at Mexico State Council for Women.

    "Sadly, perpetrators of domestic violence are born seducers so they finish one relationship and move on to the next so we saw the need to focus on them, too."

    Alberto Trinidad Martinez Nava served a prison term for the rape and murder of two women
    "Getting them to admit they are the perpetrators of violence is half the process," says Ms Zarco.

    "Unfortunately in our society, violence is accepted. They are taught that violence is the way to keep power."

    The issue of gender violence is a worldwide problem but Ms Zarco says there is a cultural problem particular to Mexico, too.

    "Machismo is a hegemonic model of masculinity in Mexico," she says.

    "The man who shouts, who has to hit people to show his power. Yes, there's machismo in Mexico."

    'Ongoing struggle'

    The workshop is part of a bigger initiative called Mexico State for a Life without Violence, which supports women who are vulnerable to domestic abuse.

    According to a victims' agency run by the government, 90% of victims of sexual violence are women.

    And for women like Ms Buendia, the struggle against the culture of violence goes on.

    After five years of campaigning, the Mexican Supreme Court last year ordered her daughter's death to be re-investigated from a gender perspective.

    It is a move that Ms Buendia thinks could be hugely significant for many other cases that have also not been investigated as femicides.

    These are small steps in a country where a lack of resources - and many say a lack of will - have meant crimes against women have gone unpunished.
    But they are progress nonetheless.

    Guatemala: Where women are killed by their families
    Marchers in Argentina condemn domestic violence
    Brazil femicide law signed by Rousseff
    Struggling with sexism in Latin America
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  7. #7
    Super Moderator Newmexican's Avatar
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    Heart of Dixie
    The Culture of Machismo in Mexico Harms Women

    Veronica Lira Ortiz

    Image via
    I was twelve years old, and a man on the street was already verbally harassing me. He looked at me as if I were a juicy steak instead of an innocent child.

    We all know that sexism is a problem, that women have not gained the opportunities and rights demanded by feminists for decades. However, we tend to suffer from the misconception that the feminist cause has worked equally in many places, that little by little we have eliminated certain practices, and that we have a further understanding of what equality is and why we need it. For some of us, sexism encounters a bigger problem deeply rooted in our historical narrative, making any change nearly impossible: machismo.

    Machismo is quite a singular word, for it’s not only defined as sexism or misogyny. Instead, it mostly refers to an attitude or conception that men are, by nature, superior to women. I’ve even heard people say that being a macho is positive because to be macho is to protect women. However, I’ve never understood this statement. Machismo reinforces the idea of women as second-class citizens whose rights and opportunities — even when included in public policies — are undermined in their households, in the streets, at school or work. It also perpetuates relations based on power and reflects the inequalities in the social, political and economic realm. It imposes specific ways of how to act and think, limiting female agency over their lives and bodies.

    My mother wanted to be a Marine Biochemist. In order to pursue this course of study, she had to move to the north of Mexico. She thought my grandparents would encourage her to follow her dreams as they did with her brothers, who had the opportunity to study away from home. Instead, my grandmother suggested she should study a “short and easy” major so she could “settle quickly.” She believed that a woman studying a science career while living alone and away from home was something scandalous. My grandparents genuinely thought they were protecting her by not letting her go. My mother studied Marketing, and she’s now quite good at what she does. Nonetheless, she will never forget how awful it felt not being able to study something you love because “you are the little lady of the house.”

    What is the outcome of this specific form of machismo? The latest set of data from the National Survey on Occupation and Employment showed that only 2 out of 10 engineers in Mexico are women. According to the AMMJE, Mexican working women destinate 70% of their salaries to their community and their household, while men only inject between 30 and 40% of their resources. Mexico remains one of the countries with the largest gender wage gap, being number 83 of 135 (WEF). Unsurprisingly, the WTO revealed that only about 4.2% of CEO positions in Latin America are occupied by females. The fact is that if at home we still make our children believe that women should not pursue the same careers as men or expect them not to be as independent, we won’t see any change in these statistics.

    “Oye bonita, ¿vienes sola? Yo te puedo acompañar a donde quieras.” (Hey pretty, are you alone? I can accompany you wherever you want). I was twelve years old, and a man on the street was already verbally harassing me.

    He looked at me as if I were a juicy steak instead of an innocent child. I realized why my mother didn’t let me go out alone or wear short dresses or skirts in public spaces. Some months ago, I heard someone sitting at a family dinner say: “Let’s be honest, women dress with short and tight clothes, because they want to be noticed or complimented. I don’t understand why they feel offended if we look at them; it is inevitable.” I couldn’t believe someone from my family would say that, neither could I believe that others agreed on such a statement.

    Every day in Mexico and all over Latin America, women have to put up with lascivious comments or other forms of street harassment. Catcalling is a universal issue, and countries like my own still joke about how to distinguish compliments and harassment. Machismo protects the aggressors by normalizing these conducts and not considering the implementation of consequences. A girl’s parents would teach her to be careful, to dress in a certain way to avoid harassers, to always walk with someone – preferably at male.

    If for several decades women have become more politically empowered, why is machismo still preventing full integration? In fact, more political female representation is not a true sign of full equality. The social infrastructure is still fragile, while the superstructure has not met with a radical ideological change. Inequality is as real as ever. In 2011, Enrique Peña Nieto —the current Mexican president— was asked during an interview about the price of a kilo of tortillas. His answer was quick,“I am not the lady of the house, I’m sorry. I guess it must be around 18 pesos.” The fact is, important men wielding political and social power continue to stand by damaging narratives about women’s positions in society, making even more problematic the disconnection of men with day to day activities, like buying tortillas. Furthermore, this aggression was considered a funny but reasonable comment. Comments falling within this realm continue to discredit women in politics and in other dimensions of power.

    My experiences are merely examples of how machismo works. I am not generalizing that all cases are the same; my sole intention is to introduce something as problematic as this into public conversation and awareness.

    Maybe you are a woman who can relate to any of these stories. Maybe you are a man who, without realizing, has contributed to machismo and made it harder for equality to actually happen. And maybe you are neither, you are a curious reader, a bystander. I just hope that after reading this you will worry as much as I do about the invisible practices feeding machismo on a regular basis. Machismo may not kill as quickly as a gunshot, but it is a silent and insidious torture

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  8. #8
    Senior Member stoptheinvaders's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Newmexican View Post
    CNN has actually just made the case that unvetted males from Mexico may not be a good cultural fit in our current society.

    They most certainly did !
    Beezer, jtdc and Newmexican like this.
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  9. #9
    Moderator Beezer's Avatar
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    Apr 2016
    They need to go home and solve their own problems.

    Boot them all out! No DACA and absolutely no path to stay...THAT right there will send the message do NOT come here.

    And these stupid women give birth to more of these animals. Then they raise these children to repeat the violence. Their sons do the same thing and their daughters are pregnant at 13 years old. We don't want them!

    Now they want to flee and come here and leave their spawn behind. Hell no! They are pregnant with more of them and those people follow them here. Keep them out!

    Look at how violent these "unaccompanied" minors are! They steal, rape, kill, join gangs here, car theft, identity theft, harass our kids in school. They mouth off in our streets and protest. Boot those kids out of our schools and neighborhoods.

    I do not feel sorry for any of them!


    jtdc and Judy like this.


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