Thread: Farmers, business owners concerned about finding workers

Originally Posted by vortex

$16-$19 an hour? Where do I sign up? I may need a few lessons digging potatoes, and a few more coffee breaks, the fresh air and losing body fat may be wonderful!
It has gotten to the point where American workers will do anything just to put food on the table.

Amen VT! Just because someone claimed they were offering $16-$19 an hour to pick fruit does not mean it's true. These growers have a vested interest in making such claims because they can then complain there are no willing local workers available.

What happens then you ask. Well traitors like Diane Feinstein attach so called emergency farm workers provisions to such things as Iraq spending bills in order to bring in more cheap labor from south of the border.

If anyone can find one of those so called job offers picking fruit at $16-$19 an hour...LET ME KNOW! My state Senator, Feinstein, still has not replied to my my e-mail In which I expressed my extreme interest in finding work with one of those farms who seemingly cannot find workers.

Please bear in mind that many of these agricultural growers are self-employed medium-sized businesses. One of their complaints about the H-2A Visas program is that it requires them to advertise widely for U.S. workers at their own expense, regardless of whether U.S. workers actually respond to their advertisements, which, in reality, it appears that for the most part they do not. In my reading, it seems to me that U.S. farmers have requested that Congress modify the H-2A Visas program in order to make it less expensive and less cumbersome in its burearcracy for them to use. I do not see why we should not at least consider the requests of our own farmers in these areas.

As a native of an agricultural region, I do see how the blood-thirsty cries of many at this forum that such U.S. businesses be run into the ground financially because "they deserve it" serves any purpose either in this discussion or for the national well-being. Unless Pat thinks the United States should follow the British model and import most of our food after the majority of our non-corporate farmers are driven out of business as they have been there.

Originally Posted by Texas2step

Please bear in mind that many of these agricultural growers are self-employed medium-sized businesses. One of their complaints about the H-2A Visas program is that it requires them to advertise widely for U.S. workers at their own expense, regardless of whether U.S. workers actually respond to their advertisements, which, in reality, it appears that for the most part they do not. In my reading, it seems to me that U.S. farmers have requested that Congress modify the H-2A Visas program in order to make it less expensive and less cumbersome in its burearcracy for them to use. I do not see why we should not at least consider the requests of our own farmers in these areas.

No, the farm bureaus have asked that the H2A visa be made less cumbersome IN CONJUNCTION WITH AMNESTY!!! They have never asked that the visa be made less cumbersome without any amnesty. They want to have their cake and eat it too, all at our expense.

Ask the whiners at the farm bureaus why don't they submit an H2A modification bill without anything else like amnesty attached.

Originally Posted by patbrunz

Originally Posted by Texas2step

I believe his point, Pat, was that, in the case of the heavy physical agricultural work required here, his experience shows that most local people really will not do it, regardless of the wages offered. I had read that statement before by a female fruit grower in California, who stated that she could not find local people willing to work for her no matter how many places she advertised or what wages she offered (and she was speaking of wages of from $16 to $19 per hour).

No offense, but with all due respect, I just don't buy it. Americans are not effete wussies who won't do hard physical work. If they can't find workers at $16 to $19 per hour, then $16 to $19 per hour is not enough for the type of work they want the workers to do.


Also, why just focus on local people? We can import people from another country with H2A visas, but we can't get people from other parts of our own country who are unemployed to do the work? It would seem to me, that another problem would be that the jobs need to be better advertised in other parts of our own country where people are out of work. Again, no offense to you intended, but I think you may be falling for OBL propaganda. If you offer Americans a fair wage, there is no job Americans won't do.

Anyone in this country, or even the world, can go online and look at the jobs that are available in every city, county and state. Most 'Unemployment Offices" have computers that anyone can use to do just that. Computers are also available for free in most libraries throughout the country.

Check out: http://www.edd.ca.gov/

Also, why just focus on local people? We can import people from another country with H2A visas, but we can't get people from other parts of our own country who are unemployed to do the work?

Americans aren't in fear of physical labor. Many are too tied down in their lives to travel from one coast to the other. Those not tied down, I assume, are also not satisfied with paychecks that will not enforce their current lifestyle.
This is not going to end very well, according to my gut feeling. This country really needs to go back to the good old days, where people grew gardens, sewed their clothes and all those other charming old-fashioned things we have abandoned.

Bowman, I believe your statement that US farmers have asked that H-2A Visas be made less cumbersome in conjunction with amnesty is, if not incorrect, at least misrepresentative. It makes little sense: why would farmers bother to ask that Congress "streamline" the present H-2A Visas program for legal Temporary Workers in Agriculture if they were able to obtain Congressional legalization of all illegal agricultural workers instead?

We also need to remember in this discussion that people who must support themselves and their families doing heavy manual labor generally are not in a financial position to move long distances at their own expense to find work, especially of a temporary nature. As one writer pointed out about U.S. construction workers being able to replace foreign Hispanic laborers in the Southwest, "What makes people think that an unemployed Afro-American carpenter in Watts (L.A.) would be financially able to move his family to Phoenix simply in the hope that he might be offered work there?" I'm sure that this statement applies equally to many unemployed workers of all races in places like Michigan, as well as those in other parts of the country, regardless of the type of work they did or are willing to do.

Originally Posted by Texas2step

Bowman, I believe your statement that US farmers have asked that H-2A Visas be made less cumbersome in conjunction with amnesty is, if not incorrect, at least misrepresentative. It makes little sense: why would farmers bother to ask that Congress "streamline" the present H-2A Visas program for legal Temporary Workers in Agriculture if they were able to obtain Congressional legalization of all illegal agricultural workers instead?

Once the amnestied illegal workers have a green cards, they will go get a better job and stop working the fields, so that is why the farm bureaus want the H2A visa streamlined also. So why do the farm bureaus even want amnesty for workers who are going to leave in a couple of years? I suspect the biggest reason is pressure from LaRaza, but I am only guessing.

I do know the local farmers where I live could care less about amnesty, they just want the H2A streamlined. You would have to ask their reps at the farm bureau why they are pushing for amnesty also.

Originally Posted by patbrunz

Originally Posted by Texas2step

"We don't have a local labor force willing to work," Zabka said. "WAGES DON'T SEEM TO BE THE PROBLEM AS FAR AS LOCALS. They either want to work or they don't."

Supply and demand. Pay enough and you'll get workers.

THAT'S IT!!! They want slave workers at slave wages!
AND, do you think the price of any produce will go down with the cheaper slaves? NO!!

No offense, but with all due respect, I just don't buy it. Americans are not effete wussies who won't do hard physical work. If they can't find workers at $16 to $19 per hour, then $16 to $19 per hour is not enough for the type of work they want the workers to do.

Also, why just focus on local people? We can import people from another country with H2A visas, but we can't get people from other parts of our own country who are unemployed to do the work? It would seem to me, that another problem would be that the jobs need to be better advertised in other parts of our own country where people are out of work. Again, no offense to you intended, but I think you may be falling for OBL propaganda. If you offer Americans a fair wage, there is no job Americans won't do.[/quote]

They will not listen as they are bound and determined to only have slave wages and you can do that to workers from other countries and not to us Americans. We know our rights and they don't.

WorriedAmerican wrote:

"...but we can't get people from other parts of our own country who are unemployed to do the work?"

I had written:

"We also need to remember in this discussion that people who must support themselves and their families doing heavy manual labor generally are not in a financial position to move long distances at their own expense to find work, especially of a temporary nature. As one writer pointed out about U.S. construction workers being able to replace foreign Hispanic laborers in the Southwest, "What makes people think that an unemployed Afro-American carpenter in Watts (L.A.) would be financially able to move his family to Phoenix simply in the hope that he might be offered work there?" I'm sure that this statement applies equally to many unemployed workers of all races in places like Michigan, as well as those in other parts of the country, regardless of the type of work they did or are willing to do."