Thread: Joe Horn Cleared for Killing Neighbor’s IA Burglars

Man Cleared for Killing Neighbor's Burglars
'Castle Doctrine' Gives Texans Unprecedented Authority to Take Action Against Intruders
By CHRIS BURY and HOWARD L. ROSENBERG
June 30, 2008—

A Texas man who shot and killed two men he believed to be burglarizing his neighbor's home won't be going to trial. A grand jury today failed to indict Joe Horn, a 61-year-old computer technician who lives in an affluent subdivision in Pasadena, Texas.

In the Lone Star state, where the six-gun tamed the frontier, shooting bad guys is a time-honored tradition, and Horn's case centered on a Texas state law based on the old idea that "a man's home is his castle." The "castle law" gives Texans unprecedented legal authority to use deadly force in their homes, vehicles and workplaces. And no longer do they have an obligation to retreat, if possible, before they shoot.

"I understand the concerns of some in the community regarding Mr. Horn's conduct," Harris County District Attorney Kenneth Magidson told reporters at the courthouse. "The use of deadly force is carefully limited in Texas law to certain circumstances. ... In this case, however, the grand jury concluded that Mr. Horn use of deadly force did not rise to a criminal offense."


'I'm Gonna Shoot!'

Horn called 911 in November to report a burglary in broad daylight at the house next door.

"I've got a shotgun; you want me to stop him?" Horn asked the dispatcher.

"Nope. Don't do that," the dispatcher replied. "Ain't no property worth shooting somebody over, OK?"

Horn was clearly upset by the dispatcher's response.

"I'm not gonna let them get away with it," he said. "I can't take a chance getting killed over this, OK."

Despite the dispatcher's protects, Horn said, "I'm gonna shoot! I'm gonna shoot!"

The 911 dispatcher warned Horn to stay inside at least a dozen separate times, telling him, "An officer is coming out there. I don't want you to go outside that house."

Then Horn  sounding angrier by the moment  cited the new Texas law.

"OK, but I have a right to protect myself too, sir," he said. "And you understand that. And the laws have been changed in this country since September the first, and you know it and I know it."

Moments later, Horn saw two burglars leave his neighbor's house, one of them carrying a bag filled with cash and jewelry.

"I'm gonna kill him," Horn said.
"Stay in the house," the dispatcher said.
"They're getting away," Horn replied.
"That's all right," the dispatcher said. "Property's not worth killing someone over. OK?"
"---damn it," said Horn, who then defied the dispatcher.

"Well, here it goes, buddy, you hear the shotgun clicking, and I'm going," he said.

"Don't go outside," the dispatcher warned.


Self-Defense?
Horn says he came out his front door, down his porch and confronted the two burglars. The next sounds heard on the 911 tape are Horn ordering the two men to stop & and then shooting them both.

"Move  you're dead," he said, and fired his shotgun three times.

"Both suspects were shot in the back," Pasadena Police Captain A.H. "Bud" Corbett said. "Not at the same angle, but both suspects were hit in the back."

Horn fatally shot the burglars, two illegal immigrants from Colombia named Diego Ortiz and Miguel de Jesus. Stephanie Storey, De Jesus' fiancée, wanted to see Joe Horn prosecuted.

"This man took the law into his own hands," she said. "He shot two individuals in the back after having been told over and over to stay inside. It was his choice to go outside and his choice to take two lives."

Horn turned down an ABC News request for an interview but his attorney Tom Lambright insists Horn was entirely justified.

"He was afraid for his life," Lambright said. "He was afraid for his safety, and then they charged him. I don't think Joe had time to make a conscious decision. I think he only had time to react to what was going on. Short answer is, he was defending his life. "

Lambright acknowledged that the 911 dispatcher urged Horn to stay inside but said, "Joe was doing what he thought was necessary. As a man, he thought it was his duty to protect his house, his neighborhood, his community."

The Horn case has aroused plenty of passion. At a recent demonstration outside his home, police in riot gear stood by as activists demanded prosecution while counter-demonstrators defended him, including a group of bikers led by Randy Laird.

"In this grand jury decision, we look for a complete acquittal, no charge of any kind, and that's what we believe will be right," Laird said then. "That's what's going to make either the Castle Doctrine stand or fall."


The Castle Next Door
Some prosecutors are wary of "Castle Law."

"There's too many imponderables in this law, whereas the previous law was working just fine," said Warren Diepraam, the Harris County Assistant District Attorney. "Frankly, life is precious."

The critical legal question hinged on whether Horn acted in a reasonable way to defend his neighbor's property.

"You cannot take another person's life in defense of their property unless you're somehow given permission by the other person to protect their property," Diepraam said.

On that 911 call, the dispatcher asked Horn directly about the owners of the house that was being burglarized, and whether he knew them.

"I really don't know these neighbors," Horn said. "I know the neighbors on the other side really well & I can assure you if it had been their house, I'd already have done something." Still, Lambright says that his client "absolutely" had his neighbors' permission.

"There's no question about it," he said. "They'd tell you today that they are very happy that he was there and that he was watching out. Every neighbor in the state of Texas watches out for one another."

"In most situations, calling 911 is the best remedy, not calling out for your 9-millimeter," Diepraam said.


'A No-Brainer'
Damon Barone, who killed a burglar in his own home, isn't sure whether Joe Horn was justified, but he does believe the Castle Doctrine has already delivered a crystal clear message to criminals.

Barone said that in Texas, the occupational hazard of burglarizing someone's home is "death."

"If you're lucky, you'll get arrested and sent to jail," he said.

In December 2007, Barone confronted a burglar breaking into his Houston home in the middle of the night. His wife, baby daughter and 6-year-old son were asleep when Barone heard a commotion and grabbed his Glock handgun.

"I heard a crashing through my window & [in] my bedroom, and I got my gun," Barone said.

"When I came around the corner, I saw the silhouette in my window, I pointed my weapon, I fired three times," he said.

Asked if he was shooting to kill, Barone said, "Yes."

The burglar Barone shot dead had a lengthy criminal record, and Barone had a permit for his gun. Even before the new law, he certainly could have been justified in using deadly force. But the "Castle Law" gives Barone added protection from criminal prosecution and even civil lawsuits.

Barone is "positive" that he did the right thing.

"And if I had to do it over again, I would," he added. "I mean, that's the safety of my family over us being hurt. It's a no-brainer for me."

So in Texas, the old tradition of shooting bad guys carries on. The big question now is whether a man's castle also includes & his neighbor's home.

Information from the Associated Press was used in this report.
http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/story?id=5278638&page=1

The Castle law should definitely send out a clear message to any criminal thinking to enter someone's home illegally.

This is great news and good for Texas....it should be the law of the Nation.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/met ... 64151.html

over 1800 comments left on the houston chronicle website

ANOTHER POST on story

http://www.alipac.us/ftopict-121473.html

http://www.alipac.us/ftopict-121491.html

IF CRIMINALS KNEW THEY MIGHT BE SHOT BY BREAKING AND ENTERING THEY WOULD THINK TWICE....OR TEN TIMES, BEFORE ENTERING.

PEOPLE SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO PROTECT THEIR PROPERTY. AND IN FACT NEIGHBORS SHOULD BE ABLE TO DO THE SAME.

IF CRIMINALS DONT WANT TO GET SHOT, ALL THEY HAVE TO DO IS NOT BREAK INTO SOMEONES PROPERTY. ITS AS SIMPLE AS THAT. STORE OWNERS SHOULD BE ABLE TO DO THE SAME.

UNTIL THE POLICE CAN BE EVERYWHERE ALL THE TIME, THE PROPERTY OWNER SHOULD BE ABLE TO PROTECT THEMSELVES AND THEIR PROPERTY.

I CAN TELL YOU THIS....ROBBERS WONT BE IN MR. HORN'S NEIGHBORHOOD ANYTIME SOON.

Frank Ortiz, a member of the local League of United Latin American Citizens chapter, said after the grand jury's decision that he hopes the case will be further investigated by federal authorities.

"That's amazing that they would no-bill him with so much evidence against him,'' said Ortiz, seen here in 2007. "It's amazing to me that anyone with a Hispanic surname cannot get justice. This was no more than a vigilante.''

Originally Posted by jamesw62

Frank Ortiz, a member of the local League of United Latin American Citizens chapter, said after the grand jury's decision that he hopes the case will be further investigated by federal authorities.

"That's amazing that they would no-bill him with so much evidence against him,'' said Ortiz, seen here in 2007. "It's amazing to me that anyone with a Hispanic surname cannot get justice. This was no more than a vigilante.''

What a douchebag! Where's the justice for the little MEXICAN girl who was beheaded by a Mexican illegal alien because she resisted being RAPED?!?! It's amazing to me what lengths hate-mongers like Ortiz go to shield hispanic criminals!

i placed a call to LULAC houston and they said he was not exactly in their office but i could leave my name and number--- which i did--- in hopes that he will return my call so i can ask him about this quote

Texas man cleared in fatal shootings of suspected burglars
Associated Press


Joe Horn was cleared by a grand jury Monday in the shooting deaths of two suspected burglars as they left his neighbor's house.
A grand jury decides not to indict Joe Horn, 62, after he killed two illegal immigrants who were leaving his neighbor's house.
By Miguel Bustillo, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer
July 1, 2008
HOUSTON -- A grand jury here Monday cleared a Pasadena, Texas, man in the shooting deaths of two suspected burglars as they left his neighbor's house -- a case that stirred a national debate over whether he was a vigilante or a hero.

Joe Horn, 62, shot the men on Nov. 14 after he called authorities and declared his intention to open fire on the suspects with his 12-gauge shotgun.

The 911 audiotape captured multiple warnings by the dispatcher, asking Horn to stay inside and telling him that "property's not worth killing someone over." However, Horn grew agitated because the men looked to be getting away before police arrived. As the tape rolled, Horn went outside, shouted "Move, you're dead!" and fired his weapon.

The incident in Pasadena, a city of about 140,000 east of downtown Houston, outraged some activists, who staged protests in the neighborhood.

They argued that if Horn -- who was not arrested -- were not white and his victims not dark-skinned, he would have been taken to jail immediately.

The controversy grew when authorities disclosed that the shooting victims, Diego Ortiz, 30, and Hernando Riascos Torres, 38, were illegal immigrants from Colombia.

"Joe would be the first to tell you that he wasn't acting as a vigilante," Horn's attorney, Tom Lambright, said outside the Harris County Criminal Justice Center, where Horn testified before a grand jury for 40 minutes last week. "He wishes these individuals had found a different line of work so that he wouldn't have gotten caught up in this whole fiasco."

Harris County Dist. Atty. Kenneth Magidson said that he understood "the concerns of some of those in the community regarding Mr. Horn's conduct," but added that the grand jury had thoroughly reviewed the evidence and testimony before deciding not to recommend any charges.

Many defense lawyers had predicted that a grand jury indictment would be unlikely in Texas, where many citizens strongly believe in their right to fire weapons in defense of home and property.

"This office will continue to aggressively prosecute anyone who illegally engages in the use of force, deadly or otherwise, against another," Magidson said in a statement. "In this case, however, the grand jury concluded that Mr. Horn's use of deadly force did not rise to a criminal offense."

Horn, a computer consultant, reportedly received death threats after the shootings, even as some callers on talk radio were praising him as a courageous role model.

He had expressed remorse about the shootings from the outset, and claimed that he was surprised when he ventured outside and saw how close the men were to him.

Ballistics tests suggested that at least one of the men had been shot in the back, raising questions about Horn's story.

But a plainclothes detective who witnessed some of what took place later told investigators that the men did not stop when a visibly nervous Horn pointed a shotgun in their direction, and that at least one man appeared to be moving toward Horn when Horn fired.

Lambright, a friend of Horn's for four decades, said he found it hard to reconcile the shooter with the man he knew. He defended Horn's right to step out his door and confront the suspects, but added that he hoped other neighbors would never find themselves in Horn's shoes.

"He is absolutely not the person you hear on that 911 tape," Lambright said of Horn. "Joe is quiet, humble."

miguel.bustillo@latimes.com
http://tinyurl.com/6b95x3