Thread: Oracle lobbyist: Congress is holding H-1B boost hostage

Congress is holding H-1B boost 'hostage,' says Oracle lobbyist
Posted by Anne Broache | 6 comments HOLLYWOOD, Calif.--

The politically explosive debate over millions of undocumented U.S. workers appears to be smothering high-tech companies' attempts to obtain higher allotments of H-1B temporary visas and green cards, Oracle's head lobbyist suggested Wednesday.

Any "rational" politician understands those longstanding pleas to bring in more skilled foreigners for gaps where no qualified Americans fit, said Robert Hoffman, who also serves as co-chairman of a coalition of high-tech companies called Compete America that lobbies for heightened visa caps. By his estimation, if that issue were severed from the rest of the immigration debate, it would "easily" sail through Congress and become law.

"As long as Congress holds us hostage to the broader question of comprehensive immigration reform, we're toast," Hoffman said during a panel discussion at the Tech Policy Summit here.

Last year, of course, a proposed H-1B cap increase found itself a casualty of a far more sweeping immigration bill that died amid myriad political clashes. In recent weeks, a number of standalone H-1B proposals have surfaced, proposing anywhere from doubling to tripling the annual cap, but Hoffman seemed pessimistic about the prospects of any such changes, even on a short-term basis, while the broader divisions persist.

The frustrating result of that political skirmish, Hoffman added, is that this year's class of foreign graduates from American universities most likely won't even have a shot at jobs with technology companies in the United States.

That's because the high-tech industry predicts that, when the petition window for next year's crop of visas opens next week, the number of applications will rapidly exceed the cap, just as it did last year, potentially months before the new graduates even have their requisite degrees in hand. The H-1B program allows foreigners with at least a bachelor's degree in their area of specialty to work for a company in the United States for up to six years. The annual cap is currently 65,000 new visas--not including renewals and an additional 20,000 for foreigners with advanced degrees from U.S. universities.

The H-1B set-up, of course, is not without controversy. A group of American computer programmers called the Programmer's Guild has for years advanced a platform that H-1Bs devalue and displace American workers and that the "shortage" of qualified personnel claimed by technology companies isn't real. Some politicians, including Senators Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa) and Dick Durbin (D-Ill.), have raised concerns about abuse and proposed requiring U.S. employersto do more to certify that they're giving Americans first dibs on openings before hiring foreigners.

Hoffman, for his part, said his impression is that the idea of allowing more skilled, potentially American university-educated foreigners to work in the United States is really not so contentious, either among politicians or among citizens more broadly.

"If you ask the general public, what's your position on skilled immigration, they'll say, 'Yeah, sure, why not?'" he said. "As opposed to (when you ask) shall we give undocumented immigrants a path to citizenship? And (you hear), 'No, heavens no.'"
http://www.news.com/8301-10784_3-990440 ... 7-1082_3-0

Instead of importing more skilled foreign labor, why not invest in educating AMERICANS for these jobs?

No to more HB visas!

Alan Greenspan, former chairman of the United States Federal Reserve Board, March 2007
"If we open up a significant window for skilled workers, that would suppress the skilled-wage level and end the concentration of income."

http://www.boston.com/business/globe..._immigrants_in

Right from the horses... mouth

OK, OK, OK, OK - I'll go along with the scheme.

But... "What's good for the goose, must be good for the gander".
Accordingly... in order to fully 'sell' me on the idea I propose that we implement this program by using skilled 'guest workers' in these positions first:

1). Chairman of Fed Reserve
2). Agency Director US DoL (Dept. of Labor)
2). High-tech/IT company CEOs
3). Congressmen/women that have shown a propensity to want to replace Americans from their jobs
4). :
5). Then, if the cap hasn't been fully used up, then we can talk about importing workers for 'ordinary' jobs.

Any "rational" politician understands those longstanding pleas to bring in more skilled foreigners for gaps where no qualified Americans fit, said Robert Hoffman, who also serves as co-chairman of a coalition of high-tech companies called Compete America that lobbies for heightened visa caps. By his estimation, if that issue were severed from the rest of the immigration debate, it would "easily" sail through Congress and become law.

I don't know. Is it just me or do other people have a hard time buying that in a nation of 300 million people, these companies can make the claim that "no qualified Americans fit" as a excuse to bring in so called skilled workers from India and China in which they are paid half of what an American would be paid doing the same job.

NoBueno - Hey, it's a legit question. Plus, much of the 'braintrust' leading the IT industry have a rather strange penchant for understanding the marketplace in terms of products/features/price/etc - but looking right over the fact that they also compete to attract workers. They seem to either not know how, or not want to do it. In short, many (not all, but MANY) take it for granted that:

a). A pool of ready/willing/able workers is always parked off to the side just waiting for their phone call

b). The workers have exactly the needed skills for the job

c). The workers are content to work from short term project to short term project; never having a 'career' or even a long-term job in the process...

d). Going to a job under the threat of a random upheaval and replacement on any given day could plausible happen.

e). Workers are 'disposable' in that a someone doesn't have exactly the same set of skills for a job, you just replace them rather than engage in helping them update their skills, etc.

Workers are supposed to be attracted to an industry with fairly rigorous degree/academic requirements, but has shown declining or stagnant compensation levels? (In fact, all the younger folks that are at high school or entry college age I know that I've asked the question to usually respond with: "why would I want to do that when I can do a business degree and make more money?" Most think computing is fun as a recreation or like the prospect as a casual utility, but most are hesitant to dive in knowing that the industry is already colluding to put them out of a job...)

In short, the CEOs have become arrogant and distantly removed from the actual details of ordinary life most American high-tech/IT professionals must endure.


So the begging question must be asked:

Why would anyone want to subject themselves to that?
Answer: their 'worker shortage' is largely a product of their own making.

Originally Posted by PhredE

NoBueno - Hey, it's a legit question. Plus, much of the 'braintrust' leading the IT industry have a rather strange penchant for understanding the marketplace in terms of products/features/price/etc - but looking right over the fact that they also compete to attract workers. In short, many (not all, but MANY) take it for granted that:

a). A pool of ready/willing/able workers is always parked off to the side just waiting for their phone call

b). The workers have exactly the needed skills for the job

c). The workers are content to work from short term project to short term project; never having a 'career' or even a long-term job in the process...

d). Going to a job under the thread of a random upheaval and replacement on any given day could plausible happen.

e). Workers are 'disposable' in that a someone doesn't have exactly the same set of skills for a job, you just replace them rather than engage in helping them update their skills, etc.

f). Workers are supposed to be attracted to an industry with fairly rigorous degree/academic requirements, but has shown declining or stagnant compensation levels? (In fact, all the younger folks that are at high school or entry college age I know that I've asked the question to usually respond with: "why would I want to do that when I can do a business degree and make more money?" Most think computing is fun as a recreation or like the prospect as a casual utility, but most are hesitant to dive in knowing that the industry is already colluding to put them out of a job...)

Etc, etc.

In short, the CEOs have become arrogant and distantly removed from the actual details of ordinary life most American high-tech/IT professionals must endure.


So the begging question must be asked:

Why would anyone want to subject themselves to that?

Thanks for that insight PhredE I admit that I do not know a whole lot about the IT and high tech Industry. I have met many people who work in these fields that do not have computer science or engineering degrees. I guess these people are self taught and are very good at what they do. They seem to always be able to find jobs that are well paying. So I would assume they know what they are talking about

The guys in IT at my company do not have college degrees in computer science, but they know networks and other things I guess. Again, I'm not an expert by any means in this stuff so I don't know. It just seems odd to me that we need to import these workers.

the shortage doesn't even exist though.

Quoted from a comment on the article:

"Study after study confirms that there are not enough Science
and engineering workers or students in the US"...
Nope. Study after study shows the opposite:
1) The Urban Institute
2) The Sloan Foundation
3) The Rand Corporation
4) Harvard University
5) Duke University

1) The Urban Institute
Urban Institute report disputes shortage of STEM grads.
Into the Eye of the Storm: Assessing the Evidence on Science and
Engineering Education, Quality, and Workforce Demand
http://news.cenews.com/article.asp?id=1035&page=1
http://tinyurl.com/37omtw < - - - the report http://tinyurl.com/3yohn9
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kVA5UA38nE

2) The Sloan Foundation
Annual Report – Education and Careers in Science and Technology
http://www.sloan.org/report/2006/sciwork.shtml

3) The Rand Corporation
Is the Federal Government Facing a Shortage of Scientific and Technical Personnel?
http://www.rand.org/pubs/research_br...05/index1.html
http://www.rand.org/pubs/research_br...005/RB1505.pdf

4) Harvard University
How and Why Government, Universities, and Industry Create
Domestic Labor Shortages of Scientists and High-Tech Workers
http://www.nber.org/~peat/PapersFold...rs/SG/NSF.html

5) Duke University
Study: There Is No Shortage of U.S. Engineers
http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,2111347,00.asp


"The end result will not be better paying tech jobs for Americans,
but no jobs at all for Americans, as these high tech jobs follow folks
who are qualified to do so in other economies"...
There is no evidence of this at all. Scare tactics.

(oops - my bad)

Originally Posted by PhredE

(oops - my bad)

My... You are playing devil's advocate this morning...