Thread: PA Jury: Immigrant's Beating Death No Hate Crime

[quote=SeaTurtle]

Originally Posted by Judy

Originally Posted by SicNTiredInSoCal

Originally Posted by SeaTurtle

Originally Posted by ALIPAC

Originally Posted by "dragonfire":1emczr1c

25-year-old Hispanic man, Luis Ramirez, and his 15-year-old girlfriend

That's illegal in NC if there is sex involved.

W

It's illegal in PA, too. The girl's dad tried at least two times to get the cops to help him. He died in February before seeing any justice done on this case. God rest his soul.

And yes, the girl DID admit on the stand that she had a "physical" relationship with the illegal alien, and that he had asked her to marry him just a few days before the fight. She said he even gave her a ring.

If this was the case, then how come the IA's "wife" (what was her name? Crystal something or another?) was so in everyone's face defending him? Why would she be so in his corner if he was messing around on her with a teenager?
I must have missed some key elements of this story along the line.

The IA wasn't married. He was just living with his "finance" who had borne him to Anchor Babies. Crystal probably didn't know he was having sex with someone else, let alone a 15 year old. He had been with the 15 year old at some friend's house, all day, then he and the 15 year old got a ride home but asked his friend to drop him off at the park, when the 15 year old got out, she ran home, he waited in the park, then she comes out and meets up with him in the park, about that time the 4 boys are coming down the way on their way home from the Polish-American Block Party, made the comment to the girl "isn't it a little late for you to be out", the IA was furious and started yelling at them, they yelled back, a little altercation, then the 4 boys walk away, and the IA gets on his cell phone, yells at the boys and "charges" after them, one of the boys turns around and punches him, he goes down, hits his head on the sidewalk, went unconscious and died from a brain injury from the fall. All the yammering about "beating him to death" isn't true, because his friends he'd called had arrived, the older boys were trying to break up the fight, and it was just a tragic accident that when the 1 boy punched him 1 time, the IA fell backwards and hit his head which turned out to be fatal.

I think as the case unfolded and the whole story came out, that's the first Crystal, the fiance with 2 of his kids, knew of the girl-friend.

The 1 boy, Walsh who threw that punch, plead guilty and is serving 4 years for that. But the others shouldn't have been charged with anything except simple assault, let alone charged with murder or manslaughter.

The media made a big mountain out of this mole-hill. People get in brawls all the time, usually started by a hot head like Ramirez, and if someone falls from a punch they lured and drew, as he surely did, then that isn't murder, that's what you get when you yell at someone and charge after them, they turn around and pop you one.

Ramirez was the one who'd been over at his friends house drinking all day and night, the boys had just had a little beer at the block party. Yet, the media made it out that they were drunks. The jury saw through all this and made the right decision, but lordy, if we don't get these people out of our country, it's Americans that will be going to prison, not the Illegal Aliens. It won't be happening to someone else's child, it will be happening to yours. It'll be your underage daughter having sex with a 25 year old Mexicans. It'll be your teenage boys trying to send her home by making a comment. It'll be your family members on trial for trying to do the right thing. This is getting way out of hand in our country and our next generation of Americans are going to be paying the price for what ours didn't do to protect them.

The 15 yr old is Crystal Dillman's half-sister. Dillman has been pretending to be Ramirez's fiancee since last summer. None of her children are Ramirez's offspring (according to the PA child support website!), so her position is just a show for sympathy and cash (she got $10,000 for People Mag story, $20,000 from Victims Advocate Office, and unspecified monetary donations from the Tan Klans).

Dillman may not have known about the relationship between Ramirez and her little sister, but Dillman DID try to run that sister over in August (cops charged her with reckless driving ONLY!) once there were rumors that the little sister was pregnant with Ramirez's anchor baby. The teen girl was sent away by her family for a while, so no one knows for sure if she actually was pregnant, but it's definite that Dillman did try to run her sister over. Oh, yeah, and Dillman was the getaway driver for a theft at a pharmacy (one of the items stolen was a PG test).

On a side note, Dillman's kids' real father, Servee Perez, is also deceased. It would seem this treasonous Dillman has some black widow tendencies going on.[/quote:1emczr1c]



Oh my God! It's a friggin' soap opera! So the whole thing in the media was a total lie about Crystal being his fiance and Ramirez was the father of her two kids?!! Why hasn't this been in the news?! Or was it and the MSM just wouldn't pick it up and get it out to the rest of the country?

What about that Ramirez. Was that his real name and did he have a record? There were some blogs back when this happened that thought he had knifed someone at some point along the way, and was Ramirez even his real name? How did Perez die? Was he murdered by chance?

Too bad Dillman's father couldn't have put a stop to this statutory rape of his daughter and then this might not have happened. I feel sorry for those boys, they were too young to know what to do in that situation. They should have never turned around and just kept walking. Their lives are a mess now. What a shame, terrible, terrible shame.

By the way who are the Tan Klans?!!

Immigration crisis videos
http://www.alipac.us/ftopict-155851.html

EVERYONE NEEDS TO LISTEN TO ALL THESE VIDEOS Exclamation

Originally Posted by Judy

Oh my God! It's a friggin' soap opera! So the whole thing in the media was a total lie about Crystal being his fiance and Ramirez was the father of her two kids?!! Why hasn't this been in the news?! Or was it and the MSM just wouldn't pick it up and get it out to the rest of the country?

What about that Ramirez. Was that his real name and did he have a record? There were some blogs back when this happened that thought he had knifed someone at some point along the way, and was Ramirez even his real name? How did Perez die? Was he murdered by chance?

Too bad Dillman's father couldn't have put a stop to this statutory rape of his daughter and then this might not have happened. I feel sorry for those boys, they were too young to know what to do in that situation. They should have never turned around and just kept walking. Their lives are a mess now. What a shame, terrible, terrible shame.

By the way who are the Tan Klans?!!

The news is finally starting to realize what a bunch of dumb sh*ts they are and some have changed Dillman's relationship to "girlfriend" especially after her sister testified under oath that she herself was Ramirez's fiancee.
On the first day of trial, the guy from CNN doing the documentary "Latinos in America" was coming up the courthouse steps as I was leaving. He said to me "How many fiancees did this guy have?" I told him "two, so far."

Then I read the CNN article about the acquittals, and that CNN reporter called Dillman Ramirez's wife!

His full name was Luis Eduardo Ramirez Zavala, according to his obituary. He also used the name John Damesio (and was wanted under this name in Georgia for cruelty to children), as well as several variants of his obit name. In 2004, under the name Luis Zavala, he was charged with aggravated assault, among other things, for stabbing and almost killing another illegal alien. The DA's office said it wasn't the same person, but the stabbing victim ID'd Ramirez as the person who attacked him (confirmed it to the family of one of the boys), but the DA reused to even consider the consequences of THAT, and of course it never made it to the trial because "Ramirez wasn't there to defend himself."

Dillman's step-father tried to get help for the 15-yr-old. The cops just would not help him. I don't know why exactly. I have not found the details of Servee Perez's demise yet. I'm still working on it, but he died sometime in or around 2006, and Dillman referred to him as "the love of my life" whom she'd lost on her old MySpace page.

The Tan Klans are MALDEF, LuLac, La Raza, and any other brown supremacist group.

The boys were being cocky jerks. They did make comments to the teen girl that night about being out too late, and it wasn't a chivalric move, at least not intentionally. When they spoke to her, she was alone. Ramirez at that time was hiding in the park. He came out of the park, then the girl told them what the boys said, and Ramirez freaked. And we all know what happened from there.

Originally Posted by SeaTurtle

Originally Posted by Judy

Oh my God! It's a friggin' soap opera! So the whole thing in the media was a total lie about Crystal being his fiance and Ramirez was the father of her two kids?!! Why hasn't this been in the news?! Or was it and the MSM just wouldn't pick it up and get it out to the rest of the country?

What about that Ramirez. Was that his real name and did he have a record? There were some blogs back when this happened that thought he had knifed someone at some point along the way, and was Ramirez even his real name? How did Perez die? Was he murdered by chance?

Too bad Dillman's father couldn't have put a stop to this statutory rape of his daughter and then this might not have happened. I feel sorry for those boys, they were too young to know what to do in that situation. They should have never turned around and just kept walking. Their lives are a mess now. What a shame, terrible, terrible shame.

By the way who are the Tan Klans?!!

The news is finally starting to realize what a bunch of dumb sh*ts they are and some have changed Dillman's relationship to "girlfriend" especially after her sister testified under oath that she herself was Ramirez's fiancee.
On the first day of trial, the guy from CNN doing the documentary "Latinos in America" was coming up the courthouse steps as I was leaving. He said to me "How many fiancees did this guy have?" I told him "two, so far."

Then I read the CNN article about the acquittals, and that CNN reporter called Dillman Ramirez's wife!

His full name was Luis Eduardo Ramirez Zavala, according to his obituary. He also used the name John Damesio (and was wanted under this name in Georgia for cruelty to children), as well as several variants of his obit name. In 2004, under the name Luis Zavala, he was charged with aggravated assault, among other things, for stabbing and almost killing another illegal alien. The DA's office said it wasn't the same person, but the stabbing victim ID'd Ramirez as the person who attacked him (confirmed it to the family of one of the boys), but the DA reused to even consider the consequences of THAT, and of course it never made it to the trial because "Ramirez wasn't there to defend himself."

Dillman's step-father tried to get help for the 15-yr-old. The cops just would not help him. I don't know why exactly. I have not found the details of Servee Perez's demise yet. I'm still working on it, but he died sometime in or around 2006, and Dillman referred to him as "the love of my life" whom she'd lost on her old MySpace page.

The Tan Klans are MALDEF, LuLac, La Raza, and any other brown supremacist group.

The boys were being cocky jerks. They did make comments to the teen girl that night about being out too late, and it wasn't a chivalric move, at least not intentionally. When they spoke to her, she was alone. Ramirez at that time was hiding in the park. He came out of the park, then the girl told them what the boys said, and Ramirez freaked. And we all know what happened from there.

Wow! The MSM has really let down the folks on this story. So Ramirez wasn't even with the girl when the boys first said that to her about "isn't it a little late for you to be out"?!!! So I was right, Ramirez did start the whole mess when he came out and freaked and went after the boys.

Oh, so the Tan Klans are MALDEF Etc. Thanks. Good term for them!

I hope the whole truth gets told to the entire public about this incident and the whole background of Ramirez gets told and you can find out what happened to Perez.

What a Circus! Do you feel the jury came to the right conclusion at the trial?

WOW! Soap Opera is right. Thanks for clearing that up for me. I feel a bit foolish for how sad I felt for the IA getting "beat to death".

Thats what I get for going all "soft"!

Originally Posted by SicNTiredInSoCal

WOW! Soap Opera is right. Thanks for clearing that up for me. I feel a bit foolish for how sad I felt for the IA getting "beat to death".

Thats what I get for going all "soft"!

Softee J/K

To Judy: Yes I believe the jury reached the correct verdict. The boys were involved in a fight, so simple assault makes sense. They admitted to drinking underage, so the underage alcohol charges makes sense too. All the rest were trumped up just because MALDEF said so.

Originally Posted by SeaTurtle

Originally Posted by SicNTiredInSoCal

WOW! Soap Opera is right. Thanks for clearing that up for me. I feel a bit foolish for how sad I felt for the IA getting "beat to death".

Thats what I get for going all "soft"!

Softee J/K

To Judy: Yes I believe the jury reached the correct verdict. The boys were involved in a fight, so simple assault makes sense. They admitted to drinking underage, so the underage alcohol charges makes sense too. All the rest were trumped up just because MALDEF said so.

That's was my view of it, too. Thanks for confirming.

Hate crime acquittal becomes Hispanic rallying cry

Teenagers, a small town and alcohol. Tension between whites and a growing Hispanic population. Ethnic slurs, punches and kicks. A dead illegal immigrant from Mexico.

The acquittal of white Pennsylvania teenagers of all serious charges this month in the death of Luis Ramirez has become a rallying cry for justice among Hispanics who feel increasingly under attack here in America. It also has exposed difficulties in enforcing hate crime laws designed to keep minorities from becoming targets.

Civil rights groups and elected officials were planning a news conference Wednesday to urge the Justice Department to prosecute the Ramirez case after the state-court acquittals, and to renew calls for passage of a federal hate crimes bill that would expand enforcement and extend protection to gay and transgender individuals.

The bill has passed the House, and President Barack Obama has said he will sign it.

Even with the new law, prosecutors still would have to delve into the minds of people accused of committing crimes based on race, color, religion, ethnicity, gender, sexual orientation, gender identity or disability.

That can be easy when a swastika is sprayed on a synagogue. It can be harder to pinpoint the emotions that make a random encounter turn deadly.

"To prove someone's state of mind beyond a reasonable doubt, and therefore the motivation someone had to commit a crime, that can be very difficult," said Morgan Scott, a former U.S. attorney in Virginia who currently teaches law at Roanoke College. He favors using hate crime prohibitions as a factor in sentencing, where the standard of proof is lower.

"You can say, OK, they hated Hispanics, but that doesn't prove that was the reason why they did THIS crime," said former federal prosecutor Sunny Hostin.

She said bias crimes that end in death are even harder to prove because the victim can't testify: "You have to link the defendant to the murder, and now you have another hurdle to prove the reason they did it, inside their head."

But Hostin says the laws still need to be enforced. "It's not only about punishment, it's about deterrence," she said. "In a society that's always evolving, you need to send a message that hate will not be tolerated."

On July 12, a half-dozen high school football players were headed home from a block party in the coal town of Shenandoah, Pa., which has attracted Hispanic immigrants with jobs in factories and farm fields. They came across Ramirez, 25, and his 15-year-old girlfriend in a park.

An argument broke out and the football players hurled ethnic slurs, although lawyers disputed who said exactly what. Defense attorneys called Ramirez the aggressor.

Soon Ramirez and Brandon Piekarsky were trading punches. Derrick Donchak jumped in - his lawyers said to break up the fight - and wound up on top of Ramirez. Prosecutors said he pummeled Ramirez while gripping a small piece of metal to give his punches more power; defense attorneys denied he had a weapon.

The fight wound down but the argument continued. Ramirez charged the group. He was knocked out by a punch to the face. Prosecutors said he was killed by Piekarsky's kick to the head; defense lawyers said another teen delivered the fatal blow.

Piekarsky was acquitted by an all-white jury of third-degree murder and ethnic intimidation; Donchak was acquitted of aggravated assault and ethnic intimidation. Both were convicted of simple assault, which carry possible one- to two-year prison sentences.

The May 1 verdicts were decried by Hispanic advocates who say Ramirez's death is part of a rising tide of hate crimes against Latinos.

"This was not a tragedy in isolation. It's just representative of what we're seeing nationwide," said John Amaya, an attorney for MALDEF, the Mexican American Legal Defense and Educational Fund.

"Sure, in the heat of passion people say things they wouldn't otherwise, and when rage and anger are present anything can be said," Amaya said. "On some level we all have our prejudices. They may not all be malicious, but in the heat of the moment, when passion is lashing out, your true core principles kind of come out."

FBI statistics show an increase from 595 Hispanic victims of hate crimes in 2003 to 830 in 2007, the most recent year available. But the situation may be more complex than those numbers reveal.

Reporting is inconsistent from state to state - the Alabama Criminal Justice Information Center reports zero hate crimes from 2007, for example. Other jurisdictions may be classifying incidents previously considered minor as hate crimes. And many Hispanics don't report hate crimes due to immigration enforcement fears, advocates say.

Then there are the gray areas, like when black vandals spray the N-word on a black person's home, or when Latino men use the N-word while beating up a black panhandler but are not charged with a hate crime - or when the state of Maryland passes a law to outlaw hate crimes against homeless people.

"It's very hard to second-guess the motivation from outside the case," said Frederick Lawrence, dean of the George Washington University Law School and author of "Punishing Hate: Bias Crimes Under American Law."

"But it's always a mistake to look to the criminal justice system to solve every aspect of a social problem," he said. "There are ways it plays an important and critical role, but it's a mistake to think that's the whole answer."

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