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Thread: Is Trump Right?

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  1. #1
    Administrator Jean's Avatar
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    Is Trump Right?

    by Ben Shapiro
    7 Jul 2015

    Republicans are now foundering on the rocky shoals of Donald Trump’s rhetoric. Three weeks after Trump set the media world aflame with his comments about illegal immigration, the debate has not quelled.

    Democrats and the media, seeking a way to demonize Republicans with Hispanic voters, have turned Trump’s statements into a litmus test for other Republican candidates. Do they agree with Trump, or do they disagree? Did he go too far, or did he raise an important issue? TrumpTrump

    Naturally, the Republican elites are appalled at Trump’s commentary and manner. Not without reason, they believe Trump’s comments were offensive in tone and tenor. But instead of separating the message from the messenger, they have bought wholesale into the media narrative: Trump is a racist, and any discussion of illegal immigrant criminality betrays a deeper xenophobia. Can’t we all just get back to avoiding discussions of same-sex marriage and illegal immigration in favor of stimulating conversations about top marginal tax rates?

    The fact is this, however: without Trump’s typically blustering comments, the media would still be ignoring the problem of illegal immigrant criminality. Nobody would have heard of 32-year-old Kate Steinle, murdered over the weekend in San Francisco by a five-times-deported illegal immigrant seeking sanctuary in the city; nobody would have heard of the six-times-deported illegal immigrant charged in a felony hit-and-run of an Arizona mom and her two young kids; nobody would have heard of the four-times-deported illegal immigrant in Texas who confessed to hammering his wife to death.

    The media have come to the defense of illegal immigrants, suggesting that illegal immigrants have a lower rate of crime than the general population. This neglects the basic fact that America’s immigration policy should be selective enough to avoid criminals altogether, rather than letting in swaths of illegal immigrants via an unprotected southern border. But is that contention even true?

    According to the Immigration Policy Center, an advocacy group for illegal immigration, the answer is yes:

    [I]mmigrants are less likely to commit crimes or be behind bars than the native-born, and high rates of immigration are not associated with higher rates of crime. This holds true for both legal immigrants and the undocumented, regardless of their country of origin or level of education.

    To evidence this contention, IPC shows that the foreign-born share of the US population has increased dramatically over the last two decades, including illegal immigrants, while crime has fallen; a 2007 study from sociologist Ruben G. Rumbaut that found that the incarceration rate for the native-born young men aged 18-39 was five times higher than that of immigrants; and reports from the Public Policy Institute of California (“the foreign-born, who make up about 35 percent of the adult population in California, constitute only about 17 percent of the adult prison population”), and the New Jersey Department of Corrections and US Census Bureau, among others.

    Pew Research has created a graph supposedly charting criminal offenses among the native-born and first- and second-generation immigrants, and finding that native-born Americans and second-generation immigrants are significantly more likely to commit crimes than first-generation immigrants.

    On the other side of the argument, Northwestern University researcher Jorg Spenkuch has found, according to Reason, “a ten percent increase in the share of immigrants–roughly one percentage point based on numbers from the 2000 Census–is estimated to lead to an increase in the property crime rate of circa 1.2 percent, while the rate of violent crimes remains essentially unaffected.”

    The Center for Immigration Studies, an anti-illegal immigration group, cites criminal statistics from certain counties, like Maricopa County, Arizona, where 22 percent of felons are illegal immigrants; they point out that as of 2009, “57 percent of the 76 fugitive murderers most wanted by the FBI were foreign-born”; they rip the “poor quality of data used” in the PPIC and IPC studies, with good reason.

    Why this controversy? Shouldn’t it be easy to determine the criminality rate of illegal immigrants by, for example, determining the place of origin for those currently in America’s prisons? It would be, but as Ann Coulter has pointed out, the government refuses to measure such statistics:

    Instead of counting the immigrant stock filling up our prisons, the government issues a series of comical reports claiming to tally immigrant crime. The Department of Justice relies on immigrants’ self-reports of their citizenship. The U.S. census simply guesses the immigration status of inmates. The Government Accounting Office conducts its own analysis of Bureau of Prisons data. In other words, the government hasn’t the first idea how many prisoners are legal immigrants, illegal immigrants or anchor babies.

    The Atlantic, attempting to argue that illegal immigration doesn’t impact crime rates, actually underscores Coulter’s point:

    In a 2013 study conducted by Lake Research Partners, as well as scholars from PolicyLink and the University of Illinois at Chicago, 45 percent of Latinos reported that fear of police investigating either their own immigration status or the status of people they know makes them less likely to voluntarily offer information about crimes. Even 28 percent of U.S.-born Latinos said that they are less likely to contact police officers even if they’ve been the victims of a crime because they fear police will look into the immigration status of people they know. Among undocumented immigrants, fully 70 percent report they are less likely to contact police.

    Underreporting crime does not mean that crime does not exist. It simply means it is ignored, which makes it more common. America’s drug problem can largely be attributed to the influence of Mexican drug cartels, who do a hefty business in illegal immigration; so too can much of America’s gang problem, which is responsible for a large share of the murders in the United States. As Judicial Watch reported last year:

    Of the 61,529 criminal cases initiated by federal prosecutors last fiscal year, more than 40%—or 24,746—were filed in court districts neighboring the Mexican border….Nearly 22% (13,383) were drug related, 19.7% (12,123) were violent crimes and 10.2% (6,300) involved white-collar offenses that include a full range of frauds committed by business and government professionals.

    Journalists in border areas have cut down on their reporting of crime in these areas for fear of retaliation by Mexican-based cartels and gangs.

    So, putting aside the rhetorical flourishes and speaking statistically, was Trump right? The fact that we don’t know the answer from a government supposedly dedicated to keeping our border secure demonstrates that his case is stronger than the media report or wish.

    http://www.breitbart.com/big-governm...s-trump-right/
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  2. #2
    Senior Member southBronx's Avatar
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    TRUMP IS RIGHT IN EVERY THING HE SAID . YOU DON'T HAVE THE BACK BONE TO SAY ANYTHING . I FOR ONE WANT HIM FOR OUR NEXT PRESIDENT. WE WANT OUR COUNTRY BACK & JOB 'S & THE BORDER CLOSE DOWN I DON'TSEE ANY ONE DOING ANYTHING JUST KICK TRUMP DOWN TO THE FLOOR . WHY HE SAID WHAT NO ONE WANT TO,HEAR ABOUT THE ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS ' WELL IT THE TRUE . WAKE THE HELL HAS ANY ONE OF YOU GO THE CITY OF NYC OR ANY OTHER CITY LIKE I DON'T THINK SO & SEE WHAT THE HELL WE LIVE IN ?IT ONE HELL OF A MESS . IT NOT ONLY MEXICAN IT ALL,OF THE OTHER COUNTRY AS WELL . YOU NAME IT THEY LIVE IN OUR CITY . IT A HELL HOLE .YES TRUMP WANT OUR COUNTRY BACK & SO DO I
    GOOD LUCK MR TRUMP
    Last edited by ALIPAC; 07-07-2015 at 02:12 PM.
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  3. #3
    MW
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    Quote Originally Posted by southBronx View Post
    TRUMP IS RIGHT IN EVERY THING HE SAID . YOU DON'T HAVE THE BACK BONE TO SAY ANYTHING . I FOR ONE WANT HIM FOR OUR NEXT PRESIDENT. WE WANT OUR COUNTRY BACK & JOB 'S & THE BORDER CLOSE DOWN I DON'TSEE ANY ONE DOING ANYTHING JUST KICK TRUMP DOWN TO THE FLOOR . WHY HE SAID WHAT NO ONE WANT TO,HEAR ABOUT THE ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS ' WELL IT THE TRUE . WAKE THE HELL HAS ANY ONE OF YOU GO THE CITY OF NYC OR ANY OTHER CITY LIKE I DON'T THINK SO & SEE WHAT THE HELL WE LIVE IN ?IT ONE HELL OF A MESS . IT NOT ONLY MEXICAN IT ALL,OF THE OTHER COUNTRY AS WELL . YOU NAME IT THEY LIVE IN OUR CITY . IT A HELL HOLE .YES TRUMP WANT OUR COUNTRY BACK & SO DO I
    GOOD LUCK MR TRUMP
    You have the right to support whomever you choose, however, you are aware that Trump supports amnesty, aren't you? Just wanted to make sure that didn't slip by you.

    "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing" ** Edmund Burke**

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  4. #4
    Administrator ALIPAC's Avatar
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    Every crime an illegal alien commits on American soil is 100% preventable if the Constitutions and laws of America are honored and enforced!

    It is the wholesale inadequate enforcement of America's existing immigration and border laws that have drawn in so many illegal aliens and then facilitated their illegal stay in our nation. Then many of them engage in broader criminal conduct because their first acts on American soil were to violate our laws and sovereignty.

    The amount of illegals in America, the number of crimes they commit, and the numbers of inbound illegal aliens would all decrease and eventually reverse if America simply had a President that was willing to announce he or she would begin to enforce our laws.

    W
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  5. #5
    Administrator ALIPAC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MW View Post
    You have the right to support whomever you choose, however, you are aware that Trump supports amnesty, aren't you? Just wanted to make sure that didn't slip by you.
    Most people do not know Trump supports amnesty for illegal aliens yet. That information was discussed and documented here at ALIPAC.us and we have not put it out yet because there is no need to pull the rug on Trump just yet as his parade is marching.

    Scott Walker supported amnesty then recently says he has changed his mind, Ted Cruz supports doubling the number of legal immigrants allowed into America each year beyond our current hyper level of 1.6 million, and Donald Trump says illegals can stay if they "remain productive".

    But at this time it is to our advantage that Trump is elevating this issue and saying what nobody else is allowed to say on TV.

    W
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  6. #6
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    Trump's position on deportation and amnesty is the one thing that drives me nuts. Going as far as he has, I just do not get him dodging on amnesty vs. deportation, unless he calculates that he has to leave a little for "the other side." If he does not get pushed out, and wins a nomination, it will be because many sleepy Americans saw the light that he lighted. Then maybe we can bring him around to getting off the "they can stay if..."

    Like Donald Trump or not, he seems to be the only horse so far in the race wearing our colors.
    Last edited by kevinssdad; 07-07-2015 at 08:40 PM. Reason: added comment
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  7. #7
    MW
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    kevinssdad wrote:

    Like Donald Trump or not, he seems to be the only horse so far in the race wearing our colors.
    I would respectfully disagree. While, like William said, his speaking on the issue is a very good thing, I'm not convinced he is "wearing our colors" just yet. Perhaps I'll reconsider if I hear Walker and Santorum coming out in the future for amnesty. Until that happens, I cannot support anyone that supports amnesty. If every single candidate comes out in support of amnesty, I'll than have the very difficult job of reassessing my position.
    kevinssdad likes this.

    "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing" ** Edmund Burke**

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  8. #8
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    MW, I can agree with you in part, because I have not committed yet to one favorite, truthfully likely will not. The reason I say likely will not commit. with the number of candidates running on the republican banner, who will still be standing by the time primary time in TX arrives. I doubt if it will be more than three, at least still with a fighting chance. With a late primary, often my candidate is gone when I vote.
    MW likes this.

  9. #9
    Senior Member southBronx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MW View Post
    You have the right to support whomever you choose, however, you are aware that Trump supports amnesty, aren't you? Just wanted to make sure that didn't slip by you.
    YES I CHOOSE MR TRUMP FOR OUR NEXT PRESIDENT HE IS FOR OUR COUNTRY .HE TELL IT LiKE IT IS WE DON'T SEE WHAT GOING ON DOWN IN AZ . MY FAMILY LIVE IN AZ . THEY TELL US MANY THING IT NOT FUNNY . WE HAVE ALL, OF OUR FAMILY & FRIEND FOR MR TRUMP . DO YOU LIVE IN THE NYC OR ANY OTHER CITY DO YOU HAVE A JOB . I VOTE HE HAS THE BACK BONE OUR COUNTRY NEED & THAT WHAT I WANT I HAVE HIS NAME ON MY CAR
    GOOD LUCK MR TRUMP STAND YOUR GROUND .

  10. #10
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    As a parent of a victim of one of our governments lack of law enforcement for more than 40 years, Trump trumped the republican party again by sharing a stage with a victims family. From his announcement he allowed, purposely or coincidentally, other candidates from the republican party nearly four weeks to share a rally with the victims of governments endorsed acceptance of criminals invasion of the USA and deaths of citizens resulting. There is not one candidate that could not have found victims within their own state to share a published moment with, there are NO excuses for not doing so other than they are quite pleased deny that there are victims.

    Reince Priebus is probably sorry that he called Trump and suggested that he tone things down, that Trump was not representative of the party. He should have called Jeb and told him to show concern for the victims of alien immigrants, to share a stage with them. I am not deciding who to vote for yet, but I will never forget who the first candidate to acknowledge a real victim's story of intentionally irresponsible governing. I doubt that I'm alone!

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