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  1. #1
    Senior Member zeezil's Avatar
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    Why states are resisting U.S. on plan for REAL I.D.

    Why states are resisting U.S. on plan for REAL I.D.
    Concerns among critics of the identification plan include its hefty price tag and privacy issues.
    By Alexandra Marks | Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor
    from the November 5, 2007 edition

    New York - The federal government's efforts to create a standardized, secure driver's license that would also serve as a national ID card have hit some significant stumbling blocks.

    Chief among them: Eight states have voted in the past year not to participate in the program. Nine others are on the record opposing the proposal. In total, legislation opposing the plan has been introduced in 38 states.

    Behind much of the state legislative opposition to the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) plan is Missouri state Rep. Jim Guest, a conservative Republican. His primary concern: REAL ID, as DHS has dubbed the initiative, would not deter terrorists. Instead, he believes, it would be an unprecedented invasion of individual privacy, creating a databank of personal information to which officials on the local, state, and federal levels would have access.

    "I love my freedom, I love my country, and we're heading down a road here that would take away many of the things we take for granted," says Representative Guest. "If we had to start carrying a card around – if we lost our freedom not to – I don't think we could ever get that back."

    Passed by Congress in 2005 and recommended by the 9/11 Commission, the REAL ID Act requires states to create tamper- and fraud-proof driver's licenses. Each would contain a digital photograph, a digital signature, and a machine-readable bar code. Before issuing a license, a state would have to verify that an individual is a US citizen or has a valid foreign passport and visa. That information would have to be cross-checked against other states', Social Security, immigration, and State Department databases. The intent is to make it much more difficult for a terrorist to get access to a driver's license that could be used to board a plane, as most of the 9/11 hijackers did.

    Under the original proposal, the citizens of states who fail to meet the REAL ID standards would not be able to use their state driver's licenses to board planes or enter federal buildings.

    Homeland security experts say such a standardized identification system would be helpful in maintaining security.

    "This could assure you that people are not using false identifications and boarding planes under false pretenses," says Michael Greenberger, director of the University of Maryland's Center for Health and Homeland Security. "But there are a lot of strong arguments against it. It's become very unpopular, politically."

    One reason is the price tag, estimated at $14.6 billion. Congress has so far appropriated only $40 million and twice this summer voted against additional funding. There's also concern about how difficult it would be to implement. Critics question how states could verify the legitimacy of many foreign passports. Conservative libertarians and liberal privacy advocates balk at the requirement that the cards would eventually have an infrared chip containing such personal information as Social Security numbers – machine readable from several feet away. While critics argue that having a central databank could dramatically increase identity theft, DHS contends the secure nature of the ID would decrease it.

    The objections raised by states have already prompted DHS to extend the deadline for implementation from the spring of 2008 to 2013.

    Last week, Guest and the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) sparked more consternation at DHS by claiming it watered down REAL ID requirements so much that it negated the original intent of the program. In a conference call with state officials, including Guest, DHS reportedly said it is considering further extensions. DHS also made it clear that if states don't comply, their citizens could still use passports or go through extended screening to board planes.

    "Under repeated and direct questioning about whether or not DHS would enforce penalties against those states that don't comply, Assistant Secretary Richard Barth said, 'No, we are not going to be blocking the citizens of noncompliant states from doing things like flying,'" says Tim Sparapani, the ACLU's senior legislative counsel.

    DHS denied it was "watering down" the program and said in statement that the ACLU continues to "spout off erroneous information to confuse and mislead the public."

    In a phone conversation later, DHS spokeswoman Laura Keehner insisted, "The bottom line is that we have not backed off anything. We will enforce REAL ID."

    But Guest and other state officials say they will fight to repeal the program
    http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/1105/p02s01-usgn.html
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    Hapexamendios's Avatar
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    In a phone conversation later, DHS spokeswoman Laura Keehner insisted, "The bottom line is that we have not backed off anything. We will enforce REAL ID.
    And I will see you in hell before I get a "REAL ID" mark my words you traitorous pieces of garbage, it will be a cold day in hell before you EVER get me to have the mark of the beast.
    "When the Government Fears the People, there is Liberty. When the People Fear the Government, there is Tyranny."

    Thomas Jefferson

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    Hapexamendios's Avatar
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    I've got an idea for the government, instead of shoving a leash up the asses of your slaves, err I mean "citizens" why don't you keep a better track of who's coming in and going out of this nation.

    It was you after all that was at fault on 9/11. You let terrorist in, you prevented the FBI and CIA from communicating with one another, you did virtually nothing to stop it, and insist on taking our right to privacy and destroying the bill of rights all for "our safety".

    How about you bag and tag the people coming into this nation, how about you make sure that the people coming into this nation are who they say they are, and how bout you quit taking what is not yours which is our damn right to be a free people in our own country.
    "When the Government Fears the People, there is Liberty. When the People Fear the Government, there is Tyranny."

    Thomas Jefferson

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    Senior Member SOSADFORUS's Avatar
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    Looks like the states are putting up a pretty good fight, except NY of course!!
    Idaho is one state that has opted out!!

    Governor Otter told them about the same thing track the people you are letting in here, not U.S. citizens we are not the ones they need to worry about.
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  5. #5
    Senior Member sippy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SOSADFORUS
    Looks like the states are putting up a pretty good fight, except NY of course!!
    Idaho is one state that has opted out!!

    Governor Otter told them about the same thing track the people you are letting in here, not U.S. citizens we are not the ones they need to worry about.
    Same with Utah (Thank God!).

    Ya know what is sad about the REAL ID act is that if this came up 20 years ago, practically everyone in America would have asked, "What country is this, Russia?" And everyone would have laughed and made fun of such nonsense.

    Many of us remember when the USSR was alive and well, and the fear tactics used by the KGB. There are many movies out which depict what living in the USSR must have been like at the time. My favorite is Firefox starring Clint Eastwood. In this movie, you do get a real feeling for the oppression the Russian people felt under the KGB.
    The REAL ID act is nothing more than an act to take away many of our own civil liberties.
    "Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting the same results is the definition of insanity. " Albert Einstein.

  6. #6
    Senior Member SOSADFORUS's Avatar
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    Sippy what is really pathetic is our government through fear mongering have convinced alot of people this is the only way to weed out the terriorist, illegal aliens and to keep the people safe. Sad part is people are believeing this!!

    Please if this is what it takes, don't protect me, you haven't worried about it before now anyway or that Southern border would have been completely shut down 6 years ago.
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  7. #7
    Senior Member jp_48504's Avatar
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    Any cheap land in Idaho or Utah? If NC doesn't back out, I'm moving.
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  8. #8
    Senior Member SOSADFORUS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jp_48504
    Any cheap land in Idaho or Utah? If NC doesn't back out, I'm moving.
    It's rising fast in Idaho, I believe there are alot of people getting out because they have been invaded in their home states!!
    Of course So. Idaho has been invaded also, thats where all the farming and factory work is!!
    Just a hint, if you pick idaho make it N. Idaho!
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  9. #9
    Senior Member sippy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jp_48504
    Any cheap land in Idaho or Utah? If NC doesn't back out, I'm moving.
    Well JP, it's cheaper than CA, but it's still pretty expensive. Typical 1,500 sq ft. homes are averaging between $200,000K and up.
    It's quite a change from NC and you will really see what mountains are if you come out this way. Good rainbow fishing in both ID and UT.
    Back in 94 I lived in Asheville for two years and it was pretty back there.
    But come on out! The only thing you may have to get used to is the dry air and hotter summers, but no freezing rain!
    "Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting the same results is the definition of insanity. " Albert Einstein.

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