Thread: Youth suspended for speaking Spanish at school

My wife tells me the bilingual teachers are certified, but when I asked how she wasn't quite sure herself.

In regards to your post alipac, I am a little confused but think you are talking about this board/community. Which I can get on board with that too, save the fact I thought we were talking about laws that were passed, not the consenus of the community here.


I did read the rules of being a member here and didn't see that about adding it to the platform,(although I will admit i read the rules while at work at there wre plenty distractions) after polls indicating such a high percentage of support. My opinion it is or should be the nat lang.,(With proper safeguarding of course-ok that horse is actually dead and in the street now ) Even still if that be the case it makes it hard to call English the national language,on the record, for me, until it is voted into law. As far as this community though I would say im in the majority too. As far as the polling goes, here on this board and out in the world, Im not sure what constitutes scientific etc., margins of accuracy etc. but I do believe there is a majority
in the states that would or do see English as a national language. To cut all the B.S.,devils advocate stuff, it really makes sense that English is a first /native language for the USA, as well as required for any dreamer that considers a better life her in this great nation.
I know there is a strong LULAC presence here where I live and at times, even though I am not racist and do respect other cultures, they can get way out there with their demands accusations, and request for preferential treatment for both legals and illegals.
I shouldn't be made to feel guilty because someone gets deported for being illegal. Hence the word illegal.

Plus I agree about the ESL, and the costs to us, I didnt realize it was so high an amount but I am not surprised..... and the other thing from an earlier post I never commented on, and i think it is actually in someones sig line.

Dial one for english?- I HATE THAT TOO.
It may be trivial, but I use only a cell phone and that just takes extra minutes off my cell.

However I wonder how much of the language accomodation is about consumerism and the good ol cha-ching.
I think, especially where I live, many places have the press one for eng 2 for sp. etc/ is all about attracting dollars.
Much the way I believe the war on Christmas is about money more than it is about trying to squash the story of Jesus.
So who is to blame?( the exlusion of Jesus is the bi-product, but sure doenst change the fact it is Christams at my house) Who has the power to reverse everything that has already been set into motion. The profits etc. Will walmart and Sams and (insert your fav retailer here-the ones I named wherent for any particular reason except theyre the ones i go to often), ever agree to a national language format
and give up, (which i dont think theyd lose any if much $$) that money coming in from the Il/legal non-english speakers?
Much like, to use the Christmas issue, if your local walmart or kmart said merry Christmas, I dont believe theyd lose much money at all,(Jews, agnostic, anyone other than christians that are claiming they'd boycott otherwise) but it would seem that in their(corporations) eyes, Cast a BIG net, and rake in as much money as you can.
So yeah we,(as in Joe taxpayer) we pay boat loads of cash for ESL programs, but big corps, and such that make exponetially more than any private citizen out there pretty much sets the parameters of paranoia when they say-
welcome to xyz business, press one for spanish. Next thing you know it becomes more about their competition. Sams does, so kmart has to so mcdonalds etc. Then It spreads and laws and programs get passed and we get stuck with funding them with our already too high taxes. . Whcih in all fairness, bigger faster more, but it shouldn't be at our (Joe Taxpayer) expense, while the massive corps keep getting richer?.
If walmart or whoever wants to have the press one thing, they should just have a special line for their spanish speakers and pay for it out of their profits. if the money is that important to their bototm line, let them provide it as a courtesy not a requirement..

You're welcome, Handyman. And, if I were you, I would be INCENSED that your wife is earning $3000 LESS than teachers who can speak SPANISH. What about teachers who can speak French, German, or FARSI by JINGO??!!! Do THEY make $3000 more than teachers who don't? That is really the biggest part of my problem with this issue. It is not JUST using a second language. It's that they are CRAMMING SPANISH DOWN OUR THROATS. If I were your wife, I would be UP IN ARMS. SHE is being discriminated against and that is WRONG, WRONG, WRONG.

Yeah, It bothers me mroe than I can tell you.
Especially since she gets no stipend for supplies etc. She has a pretty good heart though, and two years ago told me to keep my mouth shut because I was being pretty verbal about it.
The only thing that really legitimzes,(which doesn't make it right mind you) is we moved here-Tx-,(which we LOVE) from the midwest(econmically dead region), and we both make a considerable amount more here, than we could in our old state. Well, my job especially, one reason its so hard to keep my mouth shut about it, But now here is this msg board where I can dialouge in a more positive way..
You are so right about the cramming Im afraid.
Even with some of her co-workers get pissy, like if I TRY to pronounce something in Spanish, (menu items mostly, caarne guisada, chilaquiles) they are so quick to correct me or tell me how Im not saying it right. Then try to give me a spanish lesson on the spo. I always ask them, uh how would you say that in English? Most times they do not enunicate the Eng translastion correctly either, and I WILL point that out to them with the quickness.

That's right, Handyman! Make THEM translate for YOU. You are in TEXAS--NOT MEXICO. Last time I checked, they still spoke ENGLISH in TEXAS!

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascit ... 393582.htm

Posted on Tue, Dec. 13, 2005

Suspension for using Spanish draws lawsuit

By ROBERT A. CRONKLETON
The Kansas City Star

The father of a Kansas City, Kan., student sued the Turner School District on Monday for suspending his son because the boy had been speaking Spanish in school.

Lorenzo E. Rubio filed the lawsuit on behalf of his son Zachariah Rubio in U.S. District Court in Kansas City, Kan. In it, Rubio claims that his son’s civil rights were violated when he was suspended in late November.

Rubio seeks an unspecified amount in actual and punitive damages. Among other things, he also seeks an order to prevent the school district and staff from discriminating against children on the basis of their race and national origin.

Greg Goheen, an attorney for the school district, declined to comment, saying he was uncomfortable commenting on a lawsuit that he had not seen.

However, the school district released a statement after the suspension garnered media attention nationwide.

“While the circumstances which led to this incident are unfortunate, the district acted quickly in accordance with its policies and procedures to reinstate the student within hours of the time the incident occurred,� Goheen said in the statement. “The district has further issued an apology to the student and his parents.�

Goheen said the district “takes great pride in the cultural diversity of its students, staff and community and does not prohibit students from speaking in any language other than English and has taken steps to ensure that incidents of this nature do not occur in the future.�

Rubio named as defendants the school district; Superintendent Bobby Allen; Endeavor Alternative School Principal Jennifer Watts; and Endeavor teacher Susan Serzyski and five other unnamed teachers.

Rubio also named as defendants the Turner school board.

Zachariah Rubio is a junior at Endeavor Alternative School, which the district described as a school for children who need time and attention that cannot be given in a regular high school setting.

He was suspended and sent home on Nov. 28 after speaking in Spanish at lunch and then again later in the day when talking with friends outside of class.

Watts suspended him for the following day, too. District officials said Watts told Rubio’s father that the suspension was for the boy’s speaking Spanish.

The elder Rubio took the matter to Allen, who reversed the punishment, saying it should not have happened. District officials said students were not forbidden to speak Spanish at its schools. They denied knowing of any other students suspended under such circumstances.

Kansas City lawyer Chuck Chionuma, who is representing the Rubios, said Zachariah Rubio’s constitutional rights under federal and state laws were violated when he was suspended.

“Zach was punished for being Hispanic,� Chionuma said. “He was suspended from school and lost two days of his education. His only offense was being Hispanic and speaking his native language.�

According to the lawsuit, Rubio claims that when Watts suspended him, she allegedly told him that he was not in Mexico, so he was to speak English.

“I think that is very reprehensible and should not be tolerated at all,� Chionuma said. “Clearly she was in violation of both state and federal laws that prohibit discrimination.�

Chionuma said it was not the first instance in which a Hispanic student had been disciplined for speaking Spanish in a Turner district school. Other students, he said, had kept quite because of the immigration status of family members.

He also said the Rubios decided to pursue the lawsuit to make sure that other students were not discriminated against.

“It should not be tolerated at all,� Chionuma said.

I think they will loose the law suit.

http://www.kansascitykansan.com/article ... /news4.txt

Zach was then told to call his father because he was suspended from school for the rest of the day and on Tuesday for non-compliance. A "reasonable" request to not speak Spanish at school, signed by Jennifer Watts, the principal of the school, was written on a disciplinary referral dated Monday.

http://www.turnerusd202.org/THSwebbook.pdf

Refusing a Reasonable Request – The refusal to comply with a reasonable request from any school representative, lying to any school representative, or disobeying any general rule of school conduct.

OK, the teacher and apparently the principal have an issue with the kids speaking Spanish and there is no official policy concerning what languages can or can not be used in the school. It appears there are kids at this "alternative" school who already speak Spanish but are having difficulty in shcool because of their lack of English. It sounds reasonable to me that the teachers would frown on the kids speaking Spanish around the ones having difficulty speaking English.

I'll bet the kids don't have to pass a Spanish test to graduate.

According to the student handbook. A student can be suspended for refusing a "reasonable" request. This kids referral to the principal was for refusing a "reasonable" request. Had this "reasonable" request been to stop chewing gum or yelling in the halls I doubt if would have made the national news much less the local news.

If a teacher called me and said my son had to be told not to do something three times in a 45 minute period I would have a real issue with my son. This kid should have complied with the first request and if he had an issue about what language he could or could not speak he should have brought up that with his parents and let them deal with the school. But then again, he's at an "alternative" school.

The bottom line though is the suspension was for violating a school officials "reasonable" request three times in a fourty-five minute period.

By God, I HOPE they lose that lawsuit. Why does this not surprise me?? I guess they came here under the impression that the "land of the free" part meant they were free to do whatever they pleased. This just BURNS ME. And, John, I'm like you--if someone in authority had corrected my child THREE TIMES IN 45 MINUTES, they would have their little a--es BEATEN AT HOME. I can just SEE me filing a lawsuit because my child was disobedient and a PROBLEM CHILD. THIS IS BS.

And, note--the school system is caving.

“While the circumstances which led to this incident are unfortunate, the district acted quickly in accordance with its policies and procedures to reinstate the student within hours of the time the incident occurred,� Goheen said in the statement. “The district has further issued an apology to the student and his parents.�

See the problem I am having is the above quote.
I don't know how the case will go, but her (watts)superiors are saying her actions were in conflict with district policy(District officials said students were not forbidden to speak Spanish at its schools.), thus he was reinstated. However, if the reinstatement followed procedure that is in their handbook, (Watts didn't have the authority to do what she did, but the super reinstates with in a time frame that is deemed acceptable by their policies)then I can see the district winning this.
By the same token, if the handbook/policies do not have such a clause ,( I havent read the handbook so i don't know), then I think a few things are damning for the district

1) By reversing the principal's decision and reinstating the kid, the board (or whomever reversed it) acknowledges Watts deviated from district policy, and admit her wrong doing.

2) The apology from the super would then only compound acknowledgement of said deviation.

3) It therefore could not be a reasonable request because it wasn't within the parameters of the district policy.

Also, I don't think the claim others have suffered this treatment, but are keeping quiet is a valid argument. Although it may be true, fact is they aren't coming forward so it is irrelevant. It could also be an untrue statement too, that is why I consider it to be extraneous.

I can't imagine how long this lady has worked to get to where she is, so it would seem she would have been careful enough to be ABSOLOUTE in her understanding of the policies and rules of the district. However, power can be inebriating at times I would imagine. still...

Whether one likes or dislikes various cultures,or languages when dealing with them, I do think it is wise to be aware of all POSSIBLE ramifications of decisions that can be construed as racial,( you may not like it, but if the kid feels discriminated against, the POSSIBILTY of every thing going south is more probable than not-)

One conflicting statement from the lawyer is the kid was speaking his native tongue. I am pretty sure the kid had said he learned spanish at home from his parents,(which could constiute his first or native lang). However, I was under the impression Spanish was his second language, which is really irrelevant in this context but it sure makes his lawyer look stupid. If he was born in America, (which Im pretty sure they said he was), then his native language for all intents and purposes would be English.

The really important thing for me too, is that the principal has to be held to the letter of the Law/policy, as a Model. If she isn't then all those kids, (issues and such) will then have an excuse to say, "the principal doesnt have to follow policy/be accountable, then we don't either." At an alternative school,(any school really), this could be the green light for intense rebellion.

I'm not sure that losing two days of school is something the kid would see as detrimental in any other situation so that seems trivial to put in there. My wifes schools suspension is in house, so had they been in Texas he might of been out of class, but he wouldn't have been missing school.

I really think it is going to boil down to what exactly the policy is, and if any of it is in conflict with existing state or federal laws. Or if her reasonable request can be seen as a reasonable mistake that can be corrected through training.

Comparing this to chewing gum in class doesn't really rise to the level of (percieved or real) restricting someones speech.

I don't know the lady, but if she is otherwise effective at her job, I don't think she should have her career revoked because of this. I am betting the odds of her breaking policy in the future, in such a manor, are zilch.

On a different language note-
I interpreted for a Deaf man this afternoon that is in this country on a work VISA.
His AMERICAN sign Lang. was flawless. I didn't even find out he was from Mexico till the end of his appt.

Like wise he is fluent in MSL (Mex sign), which I do not understand, ("sign lang" is not universal).

I just thought, man if this guy can , get his visa to work,come here AND learn ASL,(his second lang-and way different that MSL, as well as very different from ENGLISH-his third lang),!AND! he could read and write english pretty well too, then it really shouldn't be a problem for those who come here and can hear. I mean he wasn't einstein by no means, but it struck a chord with me, because he has assimilated on two language levels. While still being able to retain his native "tongue."

It took me back to what my prof in college told me when I was learning/struggling with, ASL:
"If i tell you how to do it,(i.e. which sign conceptually fits what- run home, run in your stockings , run on slots, colors run etc), you may remember it for two weeks, if I allow you to discover it on your own it will be with you forever."

Handyman,

The English as a national language plank is in our platform area on the top blue tool bar.

Last week I had to call my cell company, AGAIN! Most of us know how that goes. Of course I am forced to push 1 to speak my own language.

While they have me on hold a voice in English is telling me about new services offered by the company.

The voice says "Now you can get you cell bill in the language of your choice. Just ask our Representative about our new choice language billing."

So the lady finally gets on the phone and I say "Why yes, I'd like to ask about your choice language Billing. Your add said that I could get my bill in the language of my choice. Do you have it in French?"

The lady says "Um No"

I say could you send my bill in German?

Again No.

I ask "well how about Mandarin Chinese, I think that is one of the most common languages on the planet besides English."

She says no, we only have it in English and Spanish.

I say "Well tell your supervisor that I live in Raleigh NC and well we speak English here and I DO NOT APPRECIATE your company catering to illegal aliens because legal immigrants have to speak some English. You are in fact encouraging people not to LEARN ENGLISH."

The lady says "I know exactly what you mean sir."

W

Thx for the clarification.
I have to admit the more I read/ learn, the more it bothers me. My wife was just mentionig that if a kid shows up at her school ad is anythig but spaish or eglish they have to do total immersio, there are o books accomdatig koreaa, or japaese or frech etc. so o top of everythig else its a gigatic double stadard!! ideed why the favoritism?????. my dogoge N is out o my keyboard-makes my grasp o eglish look like crap! All i wat for christmas is a better Kboard