Thread: Land of the free? Hah!!!

Originally Posted by MrsLeft

In this thread, I'm not debating the rightness of wrongness of illegal immigration, nor am I concerned with their effect on our society and economy.

Some people I've heard saying that illegal immigrants comprise the bulk of our prison population. This statement is all I'm singling out; the link to the Hoover Institute is a simple demographic chart, without opinion or political content. Clearly, there are more than twice the number of blacks in our jails than hispanics (let alone illegal immigrants)...

That is all!

You present a map that does not even recognize or give stats for Mexico and you have the audacity to claim the Hoover Institute does not have an "opinion or political agenda?" How long did it take you to find that map mrs. left?

Do all prisons ask their inmates if they are citizens of their country? Not all here from what I've heard so that would cause the #'s to be lower.

Good point jimpaz, and I'm still scratching my head trying to figure out exactly what the map means in the first place. All I see is a color coded key that says "prison population rate per 100,000 of the population". Am I missing something obvious here? Are the colors used supposed to denote skin pigment or what? Good grief!

If the point you are making Mrsleft is that more advanced societies tend to put more of their citizens in jail then I get it. Could it be that higher population density tends to breed more crime (as well as crimes of opportunity)? Could it also mean that some countries simply dispense with the problem out-of-hand and are more likely to shoot first and ask questions later? Of course some of the lighter shaded countries on your map don't even have a real criminal justice system. They just let the criminals run things instead...

I've read your second post, put I still don't follow your train of thought, nor do I understand how your last statement relates in any way to the map you posted. Am I seeing the whole map here or is an integral key missing? Someone please explain cause I think I'm getting dizzy....

The U.S. Justice Department estimated that 270,000 illegal immigrants served jail time nationally in 2003. Of those, 108,000 were in California. Some estimates show illegals now make up half of California's prison population, creating a massive criminal subculture that strains state budgets and creates a nightmare for local police forces."

Looks as if the U.S Justice Department has presented some numbers which seem to contradict your beloved Hoover Institute mrs. left.

Care to explain the discrepancy mrs.left?

I think mrs. left attends the LAUSD and is on summer recess. Her summer assignment was to post this ambigious map and then claim it somehow is reflective of the illegals currently incarcerated in this country.

This map is nothing more than total prision rates in each country per 100,000 of that population. It says nothing in regards to the immigration status of those individuals who make up that population.

Further, mrs.left seems to be under the impression that blacks cannot be illegal invaders, which was evidenced by her words, "Clearly, there are more than twice the number of blacks in our jails than hispanics"

You get an F mrs.left.

Data from the map maker, the International Centre for Prison Studies.

Mexico:

Prison population total
(including pre-trial detainees / remand prisoners) 217,436
at October 2007 (national prison administration)
Prison population rate
(per 100,000 of national population) 198
based on an estimated national population of 110.0 million at October 2007 (from United Nations figures)
Pre-trial detainees / remand prisoners
(percentage of prison population) 42.4%
(October 2007)
Female prisoners
(percentage of prison population) 5.1%
(September 2007)
Juveniles / minors / young prisoners
incl. definition (percentage of prison population) *
(at 28.11.2004 2,532 juveniles aged 11 but under 18 were held in custody, outside the prison system, following the commission of 'infractions'. They are not included in the prison population total)
Foreign prisoners
(percentage of prison population) 0.9%
(September 2007)
Number of establishments /
institutions 451
(2007)
Official capacity of prison system 163,867
(30.6.2007)
Occupancy level (based on official
capacity) 132.3%
(30.6.2007)
Recent prison population trend
(year, prison population total, prison population rate) 1992 85,712 (9
1995 93,574 (102)
1998 128,902 (133)
2001 165,687 (164)
2004 193,889 (183)

Also, about a 10th of Mexico's population is in the US.

United States

Prison population total
(including pre-trial detainees / remand prisoners) 2,258,983
at 31.12.2006 (U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics - a further 92,854 were held in juvenile facilities at 29.3.2006, a further 1,745 in 'jails in the Indian country' at 30.6.2004, 14,482 in immigration facilities at 31.12.2006 and 1,944 in military facilities at 31.12.2006)
Prison population rate
(per 100,000 of national population) 751
based on an estimated national population of 300.8 million at end of 2006 (from U.S. Census Bureau statistics)
Pre-trial detainees / remand prisoners
(percentage of prison population) 21.2%
(62.0% of local jail inmates at 30.6.2006)
Female prisoners
(percentage of prison population) 9.1%
(12.9% of local jail inmates, 7.2% of state and federal prisoners, 30.6.2006)
Juveniles / minors / young prisoners
incl. definition (percentage of prison population) 0.4%
(0.8% of local jail inmates, 0.2% of state prisoners - under 18, 30.6.2006)
Foreign prisoners
(percentage of prison population) 6.2%
(of those in state and federal prisons, 30.6.2006)
Number of establishments /
institutions 5,069
(2000 - 3,365 local jails, 1,558 state facilities, 146 federal facilities)
Official capacity of prison system c.2,061,235
(810,863 in local jails at 30.6.2006, c.1,131,000 in state prisons at 31.12.2005, 119,371 in federal prisons at 31.12.2005)
Occupancy level (based on official
capacity) c.107%
(94.5% in local jails at 30.6.2006, c.111% in state prisons at 31.12.2005, 150.1% in federal prisons at 31.12.2005)
Recent prison population trend
(year, prison population total, prison population rate) 1992 1,295,150 (505)
1995 1,585,586 (600)
1998 1,816,931 (669)
2001 1,961,247 (685)
2004 2,135,335 (723)

http://www.kcl.ac.uk/schools/law/research

Looks like Mexico needs more prisons, since all of the criminals are on the streets killing people and smuggeling dope.

Dixie

Originally Posted by gofer

When there are enforced LAWS, then prisons are populated. Does Mexico even have a prison population to speak of???

Mexico is not even on this map that is because all thier criminals are in our country and some are in our jails.

Now please send all the illegals packing.Because we do not want them here!

(Mod edit)

Originally Posted by MyAmerica

That's quite some map you use for 'reference' MrsLeft.

To point out a couple flaws--where are Mexico, Australia and Hawaii?

http://crookedtimber.org/2006/05/23/inc ... ion-rates/

Mexico and Australia are accounted for here. Mexico is akin to Brazil, Australia is about equal to Canada. As for Hawaii... uhhh

Troll Alert....