Thread: Americans Still Won't Trade Deductions for Lower Taxes

I didn't realize it wouldn't be requested each month, BUT it will be checks each month. I realize they don't 'cut' many checks anymore, but it is book work.

The worst part is the fact Americans will become dependent or those checks - it is just the way it is.

Also, the fact that it is part of SS is just wrong. There are enough things 'administered' out of SS as it is -

I do appreciate the information.

It didn't change my mind, people getting money from the government each month, just doesn't sit right and to do it through SS shouldn't happen.

As far as SS knowing about deaths - don't count on it.

I knew a young man who died at age 16. His parents got a very threatening letter when he reached 21 because he hadn't yet registered for Selective Service.

Originally Posted by nntrixie

I didn't realize it wouldn't be requested each month, BUT it will be checks each month. I realize they don't 'cut' many checks anymore, but it is book work.

The worst part is the fact Americans will become dependent or those checks - it is just the way it is.

Also, the fact that it is part of SS is just wrong. There are enough things 'administered' out of SS as it is -

I do appreciate the information.

It didn't change my mind, people getting money from the government each month, just doesn't sit right and to do it through SS shouldn't happen.

As far as SS knowing about deaths - don't count on it.

I knew a young man who died at age 16. His parents got a very threatening letter when he reached 21 because he hadn't yet registered for Selective Service.

It's not book work once it's set up unless there are changes. And don't forget, this is the Social Security Administration that is today doing all that "book work" on payroll taxes every month. The payroll taxes are eliminated, so there's a lot less of that. Your earnings are still reported to accrue your benefits for when you retire, but there's no more processing of individual worker's and employer's payroll taxes. Imagine all those savings in bureaucracy and book work because the FairTax eliminates all that. Instead, they handle the Rebate, one Household payment a month, for whoever signs up for it that covers numerous people, instead of all those worker and employer tax calculations, verification and entries for the tax payments now required per worker. And that's all done now by hand with forms filled out by employers and deposits made by employers to the banks to transmit to SSA. Oh it substantially reduces the work of the SSA. The rebates are easy peasy stuff compared to all that.

No SS taxes?

Originally Posted by nntrixie

No SS taxes?

CORRECT!!! The FairTax REPEALS ALL INCOME-BASED TAXES. Corporate, personal, payroll (SS and Medicare), dividend, interest, gift, inheritance, and capital gains taxes. It does not repeal excise taxes, gas taxes, tariffs, customs, duties and so forth. But ALL INCOME TAXES covered by the IRS and the Internal Revenue Code including payroll taxes, both employer and employee are repealed by the FairTax. That's why the rate of 23% consists of actually 2 retail sales taxes: 8.09% earmarked for Social Security Administration for Social Security Benefits and Medicare, and then 14.91% to fund General Revenue that funds our government. The total adds up to 23%.

So when people do their math, they need to realize they aren't just saving personal income tax, they are also saving payroll taxes as well, same with the employers.

For a household that earns the average household income in the US which is a little over $50,000 a year, they save around $4,000 a year in savings just on their 7.65% payroll tax withholding, they save their personal individual income tax which is probably around $8,000 and still qualify for the Rebate to pay their FairTaxes on essentials up to the Household Consumption Allowance.

So they save $12,000 or so on withholding taxes plus if they're a citizen or legal resident, and sign up for the Rebate, they'll receive $210 per adult and about $70 per child. So a family of four (2 adults and 2 kids), their rebate would be 210 x 2 or $420 plus 70 x 2 or $140 for a total of $560 per month which is the 23% of the Household Consumption Allowance for a couple with 2 kids, which is about the same as what they would have claimed in personal and dependent deductions on their income tax return. $560 x 12 = $6,720 a year.

So I would like for someone to explain to me how putting a total of $19,000 a year into the pockets of our middle class is killing our middle class, which is what the Anti-FairTax Lobby claims??!!! How is that possible? It isn't. It's a huge lie.

Everyone benefits from the FairTax. Poor, working poor, middle class, upper middle class, upper class, wealthy, young, middle-aged, seniors, companies, employers, big corporations, small companies, entrepreneurs, manufacturers, retailers, Social Security and Medicare which is robustly funded by the FairTax, everyone benefits.

Originally Posted by nntrixie

No SS taxes?

What Happened to My Social Security?

The plan calls for people to stop paying social security - both the employees and employers share. That's it...just stop paying it. Just take it out of the general fund. No plan for social security survival. No plan at all...just stop paying social security and Medicare and it will all magically sort itself out. Except that the plan cuts the estate tax, gift tax, and capital gains taxes to the tune of $700 billion a year so the treasury will suffer a major major major shortage of funds. Where will the money come from?

Take the money out of the general fund? Hold on there. That's not accurate. No matter what they say, taxes will go up or benefits will go down. You can't just take $700 billion out of the budget, give it to the wealthy, and expect this so-called "revenue neutral" plan to run everything like it is today on what is left over. Benefits will have to be cut. After all, we only have a limited budget and do have defense contractors to feed - why should we look out for "special interests" like the elderly?

Does that scare you? It should. This will hurt your parents, your grandparents, and eventually you. In order to make social security work we need more funds, not less. We need to make the rich pay social security tax on all income - not just up to the cut off point. We need to keep the social security money out of the control of the President and Congress.

What about your retirement savings? Under the FairTax plan if you have existing money it is taxed twice - once long ago when you earned it and saved it in the bank and once when you spend it under the new FairTax. Got money in a Roth IRA? As soon as you buy something with that money you will pay the 30% FairTax tax. There is no provision for people who already have lots of money in retirement savings and in Roth IRA's - they are simply taxed twice. The elderly will be hit the worst. What's really sad is that health insurance for the elderly is hugely expensive because the elderly need more care - and because medical expenses, surgery, and prescription drugs are 30 percent taxable under the FairTax plan, those few dollars the elderly put away will soon vanish into thin air. The No-Tax plan is an alternative elderly-friendly plan that puts the taxes where they belong - back on the wealthy.

http://www.fairtaxfraud.com/fallout.asp

The plan calls for people to stop paying social security - both the employees and employers share. That's it...just stop paying it. Just take it out of the general fund. No plan for social security survival. No plan at all...just stop paying social security and Medicare and it will all magically sort itself out.

No, that isn't right. It doesn't come out of "General Fund".

The FairTax rate of 23% is the sum of two taxes: 1. 8.09% Social Security and Medicare tax and 2. 14.91% General Revenue Tax to fund the government. If you add the two statutory taxes together, 8.09 plus 14.91, that's the combined total FairTax rate of 23%. The 8.09% Social Security and Medicare Tax is earmarked by the statute for SSA to fund the Social Security and Medicare Trust Funds. This is all outlined and clearly detailed in the FairTax Act legislation for anyone who wants to read it. Just look up HR 25 at the US House of Representatives website.

What about your retirement savings? Under the FairTax plan if you have existing money it is taxed twice - once long ago when you earned it and saved it in the bank and once when you spend it under the new FairTax. Got money in a Roth IRA? As soon as you buy something with that money you will pay the 30% FairTax tax. There is no provision for people who already have lots of money in retirement savings and in Roth IRA's - they are simply taxed twice.

People who invested in regular IRA's received a tax deduction and did not pay income tax on those.

The Roth IRA is not tax deductible, but the earnings grow and accrue so long as you don't violate the rules, tax-free. So you didn't pay income tax all those years on your earnings. Now when you draw it out and if you spend it on new goods and services, then yes, those purchases will be subject to the FairTax. But you aren't paying twice. The prices you pay are the same as you would pay with the income tax system. So you get away with never having paid income tax on your earnings, you can sign up for a Rebate if you want for the FairTax on your essentials, so you walk away like bandits.

The FairTax is extremely favorable to retirees. It not only robustly funds Social Security and Medicare, you walk away never having paid income tax on your tax-deferred earnings, and get a Rebate to pay FairTax on your essentials. Plus if you use it to help your family, their is no gift tax, no inheritance tax if you die for anyone to pay, plus if you invest it in a beach condo or a cabin on the lake or a place in a retirement village, so long as you're not the first person to live in it, you don't even pay FairTax on that, because it's not a new good, it's a used home. Same with cars, RV's, and a host of other things retirees like to spend on.

Trying to scare older people with fake news and false information to try to rally opposition to a FairTax that will benefit everyone including them is really a low way to go.

Trying to scare older people with fake news and false information to try to rally opposition to a FairTax that will benefit everyone including them is really a low way to go.

Actually attempting to scam people with misleading and inaccurate information is the "low way to go."