Thread: Arkansas Under Martial Law!

Originally Posted by jp_48504

The Romans once had a great empire, and they too limited freedom. Guess what happened? The slaves organized and well the rest is ancient history.

The Communists believe Freedom is overrated as well. Of course you know that because your quote I believe comes from Karl Marx, a Communist

We don't need a national id card to control immigration, we need our laws enforced and our borders secured.

If I remember history well enough, there was someone in World War II who was rightly defeated who thought it a good idea for people to have a special id.

With anywhere between 12-20 million in the country and many with good looking fake stuff -- how are you going to tell illegals from citizens. A National ID Card solves that problem. At least in Europe their national ID cards allow them to tell who is a citizen and who is not.

Without a National ID Card you will have a hard time finding the illegals for deportation.

Attrition through Enforcement.

Secure our borders
Stop the benefits welfare, medicade, medicare, food stamps, wic.
Fine and Jail employers who hire illegals.
Investigate no match letters
and th list goes on.

The first thing to do is STOP letting people throw out the racial profiling card, when 70% of the people in this country are from Hispanic , Latino countries they should not be allowed to cry racial profiling...just ask everyone if you are a citizen, or in this country legally, if they can't prove it throw them out! period.

We are on very dangerous ground when it comes to curfews, that is BS, this is OUR free country and we should have the right to move freely in OUR country (day or night)...they damn well need to enforce the laws and I personally don't care what it takes, as far as I am concerned illegals have no civil rights.

jp is totally correct about the Roman Empire, and we don't want to go there.



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Originally Posted by judyweller

Originally Posted by jp_48504

The Romans once had a great empire, and they too limited freedom. Guess what happened? The slaves organized and well the rest is ancient history.

The Communists believe Freedom is overrated as well. Of course you know that because your quote I believe comes from Karl Marx, a Communist

We don't need a national id card to control immigration, we need our laws enforced and our borders secured.

If I remember history well enough, there was someone in World War II who was rightly defeated who thought it a good idea for people to have a special id.

With anywhere between 12-20 million in the country and many with good looking fake stuff -- how are you going to tell illegals from citizens. A National ID Card solves that problem. At least in Europe their national ID cards allow them to tell who is a citizen and who is not.

Without a National ID Card you will have a hard time finding the illegals for deportation.

You keep using Europe as the ideal model for a national id card in order to control illegal immigration. I wasn't aware that illegal immigration was under control in Europe. We already have existing law on our books that is being ignored! What makes you think a national id card is going to legislate the WILL to enforce our laws?

Again, the only people who will end up being burdened with a national id card are those who are inclined to obey the law in the first place. It will do nothing to deter those who will also disregard this form of identification as they are doing now with social security numbers.

E-Verify is 95% accurate and does not require any additional identification to operate. Before we go the route of a national id card, lets make E-Verify mandatory and see how that goes...

Originally Posted by NoBueno

Originally Posted by judyweller

Originally Posted by jp_48504

The Romans once had a great empire, and they too limited freedom. Guess what happened? The slaves organized and well the rest is ancient history.

The Communists believe Freedom is overrated as well. Of course you know that because your quote I believe comes from Karl Marx, a Communist

We don't need a national id card to control immigration, we need our laws enforced and our borders secured.

If I remember history well enough, there was someone in World War II who was rightly defeated who thought it a good idea for people to have a special id.

With anywhere between 12-20 million in the country and many with good looking fake stuff -- how are you going to tell illegals from citizens. A National ID Card solves that problem. At least in Europe their national ID cards allow them to tell who is a citizen and who is not.

Without a National ID Card you will have a hard time finding the illegals for deportation.

You keep using Europe as the ideal model for a national id card in order to control illegal immigration. I wasn't aware that illegal immigration was under control in Europe. We already have existing law on our books that is being ignored! What makes you think a national id card is going to legislate the WILL to enforce our laws?

Again, the only people who will end up being burdened with a national id card are those who are inclined to obey the law in the first place. It will do nothing to deter those who will also disregard this form of identification as they are doing now with social security numbers.

E-Verify is 95% accurate and does not require any additional identification to operate. Before we go the route of a national id card, lets make E-Verify mandatory and see how that goes...

I never said illegal immigration was under control in Europe. I just said that they were able to identify citizens and non-citizens very easily due to National ID countries. Now what they do about it is another issue. But at least they can identify them which we can't do -- look at the Libriarian in NC.

E-Verify only is good if you seek employment -- what about those workers ( and I have read about some) that hire themselvess out as Maids. Or start a business ( I read they are doing that in Arizona) since there is no requirement for citizenship to start a business. What about day laborers ? Some but not all are illegals?

There has to be some means to distinguish between a citizen and a non-citizen -- right now there really isn't unless you have a passport with you.

If I hire someone to do some handiman work I should be able to know if he is a citizen -- I should be able to see some proof. Right now I can't -- I just have to use an educated guess (I never hire anyone who speaks Spanish ) but then I moved to an area without illegal immigrants - we have no industry to attract them.

But I see a National ID as very essential to the country.

Originally Posted by judyweller

Originally Posted by NoBueno

Originally Posted by judyweller

Originally Posted by jp_48504

The Romans once had a great empire, and they too limited freedom. Guess what happened? The slaves organized and well the rest is ancient history.

The Communists believe Freedom is overrated as well. Of course you know that because your quote I believe comes from Karl Marx, a Communist

We don't need a national id card to control immigration, we need our laws enforced and our borders secured.

If I remember history well enough, there was someone in World War II who was rightly defeated who thought it a good idea for people to have a special id.

With anywhere between 12-20 million in the country and many with good looking fake stuff -- how are you going to tell illegals from citizens. A National ID Card solves that problem. At least in Europe their national ID cards allow them to tell who is a citizen and who is not.

Without a National ID Card you will have a hard time finding the illegals for deportation.

You keep using Europe as the ideal model for a national id card in order to control illegal immigration. I wasn't aware that illegal immigration was under control in Europe. We already have existing law on our books that is being ignored! What makes you think a national id card is going to legislate the WILL to enforce our laws?

Again, the only people who will end up being burdened with a national id card are those who are inclined to obey the law in the first place. It will do nothing to deter those who will also disregard this form of identification as they are doing now with social security numbers.

E-Verify is 95% accurate and does not require any additional identification to operate. Before we go the route of a national id card, lets make E-Verify mandatory and see how that goes...

I never said illegal immigration was under control in Europe. I just said that they were able to identify citizens and non-citizens very easily due to National ID countries. Now what they do about it is another issue. But at least they can identify them which we can't do -- look at the Libriarian in NC.

E-Verify only is good if you seek employment -- what about those workers ( and I have read about some) that hire themselvess out as Maids. Or start a business ( I read they are doing that in Arizona) since there is no requirement for citizenship to start a business. What about day laborers ? Some but not all are illegals?

There has to be some means to distinguish between a citizen and a non-citizen -- right now there really isn't unless you have a passport with you.

If I hire someone to do some handiman work I should be able to know if he is a citizen -- I should be able to see some proof. Right now I can't -- I just have to use an educated guess (I never hire anyone who speaks Spanish ) but then I moved to an area without illegal immigrants - we have no industry to attract them.

But I see a National ID as very essential to the country.

http://www.dailygazette.com/news/2008/aug/11/0811_fake/

Seems like a DMV office is able to determine when a social security number is fradulent without the use of a national identification card. Why cannot other business and corporations do the same when hiring employees? Again, E-Verify (or whatever software program the DMV uses) can be mandated without the requirement of a national id card.

Further, I already have a state id, state drivers licenses and a passport! Why do I need another document to prove i'm in this country legally? Your points of starting a business or hiring a maid ( clean your own house or refuse the services of that maid if your not satisfied with documents) are moot, as a national id is not going to change legislation that allows illegals to start a business in the first place. We don't need to identify illegals who start a business if we are openly allowing them to so do!

Now, with all that being said, I actually agree with you that perhaps some sort of national identification may be needed. However, I believe it's needed and should be implemented to prevent voter fraud in this country.

I might actually get behind a national voter id card that would be required by everyone in this country before they are allowed to participate in the electoral process in this country. Mexico does this and they are right to so do. They understand how important it is to protect the integrity (at least from a perspective of perception) of the democratic process in that country.

If third world mexico can protect their elections, why cannot the United States?

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JP - you act as if a curfew is house arrest. It is not. Do you even know what a curfew is, have you ever lived in a town when one is in effect? Have you ever traveled to France and understand how official papers and National ID Cards work? We are going to have to have a National ID eventually if we are going to control illegal immigrantion and terrorism.

This is a brand new world and our concept of freedom unlimited is going to have to be modified to suit the time in which we live. We can't go back to a 19th Century view of life or even and pre-WW2 view of life -- with globalization and air travel we must go to a national ID and limitations on unbridled "feedom" if we are to control illegal immigration and protection from terrorists.

Freedom is overrated. We don't live in the frontier any more -- so that concept of freedom is gone, -- there must be limitations if we are to have the protection and safety we need.

Many European Countries have National ID carts or Identity Papers - and I think we should have them too. When I lived in France I would occasionally be stopped and asked for my passport or identity paper -- I never found that if infringed on my freedom whatsoever. You have an unrealistic definition of freedom in this day and age.

OMG! You make me sick.

Anyway, for the freedom loving patriots here:

Crime-ridden Arkansas town expands 24-hour curfew

By JON GAMBRELL
Associated Press Writer

HELENA-WEST HELENA, Ark. (AP) -- Officers armed with military rifles have been stopping and questioning passers-by in a neighborhood plagued by violence that's been under a 24-hour curfew for a week.

On Tuesday, the Helena-West Helena City Council voted 9-0 to allow police to expand that program into any area of the city, despite a warning from a lawyer with the American Civil Liberties Union of Arkansas that the police stops were unconstitutional.

Police Chief Fred Fielder said the patrols have netted 32 arrests since they began last week in a 10-block neighborhood in this small town on the banks of the Mississippi River long troubled by poverty. The council said those living in the city want the random shootings and drug-fueled violence to stop, no matter what the cost.

"Now if somebody wants to sue us, they have an option to sue, but I'm fairly certain that a judge will see it the way the way the citizens see it here," Mayor James Valley said. "The citizens deserve peace, that some infringement on constitutional rights is OK and we have not violated anything as far as the Constitution." [Wow, what double speak]

The area under curfew, in what used to be a West Helena neighborhood, sits among abandoned homes and occupied residences in disrepair.

White signs on large blue barrels warn those passing by that the area remains under curfew by order of Mayor James Valley. The order was scheduled to end at 3 p.m. Tuesday, but Valley said the city council's vote would allow police to have the same powers across Helena-West Helena.

Among the curfew operation's arrests, 10 came from felony charges, including the arrest of two people carrying both drugs and weapons, Fielder said. The police chief said the officers in the field carry military-style M-16 or M-4 rifles, some equipped with laser sights. Other officers carry short-barrel shotguns. Many dealing crack cocaine and marijuana in the city carry pistols and AK-47 assault rifles, he said. [Wow, residents carry AK-47 down the street. Huh]

"We've had people call us, expressing concern for their children," Fielder said. "They had to sleep on the floor, because of stray bullets."

Fielder said officers had not arrested anyone for violating the curfew, only questioned people about why they were outside. Those without good answers or acting nervously get additional attention, Fielder said. [So the police would have gotten the 10 felony arrests without the curfew?]

However, such stops likely violate residents' constitutional rights to freely assemble and protections against unreasonable police searches, said Holly Dickson, a lawyer for the ACLU of Arkansas who addressed the council at its packed Tuesday meeting. Because of that, Dickson said any convictions coming from the arrests likely would be overturned.

"The residents of these high-crime areas are already victims," she said. "They're victims of what are happening in the neighborhoods, they're victims of fear. But for them to be subject to unlawful stops and questioning ... that is not going to ultimately going to help this situation."

The council rejected Dickson's claims, at one point questioning the Little Rock-based attorney if she'd live in a neighborhood they described as under siege by wild gunfire and gangs.

"As far as I'm concerned, at 3 o'clock in the morning, nobody has any business being on the street, except the law," Councilman Eugene "Red" Johnson said. "Anyone out at 3 o'clock shouldn't be out on the street, unless you're going to the hospital." [ Huh]

The curfew is the second under the mayor's watch since the rival cities of Helena and West Helena merged in 2006. That year, Valley set a nightly citywide curfew after a rash of burglaries and other thefts.

Police in Hartford, Conn., began enforcing a nightly curfew for youths after recent violence, including a weekend shooting that killed a man and wounded six young people. [Coming to a neighborhood near you as soon as they can invent a reason.]

Helena-West Helena, with 15,000 residents at the edge of Arkansas' eastern rice fields and farmland, is in one of the nation's poorest regions, trailing even parts of Appalachia in its standard of living.

In the curfew area, those inside the homes in the watch area peered out of door cracks Tuesday as police cruisers passed. They closed the doors afterward.[/b]

Examiner.com

Evictions, fake cops raise questions about Arkansas curfew

POSTED August 11, 11:59 AM

Much is being made of a virtual declaration of martial law in a small town in Arkansas -- and of the ACLU's predictable, and commendable, objection to the same. Largely unnoticed, though, is the troubling fact that the "state of emergency" may create an opportunity for local criminals.

Invoking an ordinance relating to civil emergencies in response to a surge of violent crime in parts of the town, Mayor James Valley of Helena-West Helena, Arkansas, imposed an all-day curfew, with "[n]o loitering, standing or 'hanging-out'â€

Stillfree, I dont give a second though to someone quoting Karl Marx and Communist ideals.

and the beat goes on. Checkpoints, illegal searches. It wont be long before a a class action lawsuit for violation fo civil and constitutional rights is done that will bankrupt that city. Then what will they do?