Thread: Chuck Norris bows to alleged fair tax (H.R.25)

Yes, the FairTax plan is a national retail sales tax with a rebate that makes it progressive instead of regressive, is an indirect tax on consumption of new products and services purchased for non-business purposes, taxed 1 time, at 1 rate, at the final point of sale.

www.fairtax.org

Originally Posted by Judy

Yes, the FairTax plan is a national retail sales tax with a rebate that makes it progressive instead of regressive, is an indirect tax on consumption of new products and services purchased for non-business purposes, taxed 1 time, at 1 rate, at the final point of sale.

Wrong Judy. The alleged fair tax is a tax upon property, real and personal:

SEC. 101. IMPOSITION OF SALES TAX.

`(a) In General- There is hereby imposed a tax on the use or consumption in the United States of taxable property or services.

But you are correct the tax is “progressiveâ€

No, johnwk, you're wrong. The term "progressive tax" relates to the mathematical effect of using a flat percentage to charge taxes, with credits, deductions, write-offs, or exemptions to keep the tax from being regressive. Regressive taxation penalizes those with lower incomes unless there are offsets as described above. A FairTax or any flat rate tax is regressive without offsets. The FairTax uses a simple Rebate based on an an existing consumption allowance formula, already approved by Congress that has been in use for many years to measure the cost of necessities, to offset the regressive nature of the flat rate sales tax and applies it to everyone without prejudice or discrimination.

The existing income tax uses 77,000 pages of credits, deductions, write-offs, exemptions and different rates to offset the regressive nature of income taxes, but does it with prejudice and discrimination.

The term "progressive" as you're using it applies to a political view that wants to improve society, which includes all political parties to my knowledge. I'm not aware of any regressive party or political thought that wants to regress back to slavery, women as second class citizens, businesses operating as monopolies, workers operating in work places in the midst of discrimination, unsafe working conditions, worker abuse and without negotiating power.

The FairTax at the moment is a Republican legislation, introduced into Congress by Republicans, co-sponsored by Republicans, promoted by Republicans, and the entire effort to pass it funded by Republicans, for over a decade. It is now picking up broad-based support in the country, but so far no Democrats in Congress have signed up this year to support it. Last year there was 1 Democrat from Oklahoma that was an official co-sponsor.

Are Republicans progressive? Well, yeah, they have always been progressive, have always wanted to improve our society. It's the reason the Republican Party was formed in 1856, to end slavery, establish equal rights, enforce the US Constitution, secure liberty for all the people of the United States, improve wages and working conditions for our workers and protect our trade to protect our jobs and economy. Republicans are responsible for the first 40 hour work week, automatic over-time pay, anti-trust legislation to prevent corporate and business monopolies, our park system to preserve our environment, women's right to vote, the first civil rights and voting rights acts, protected trade policy, and so much more.

Is the FairTax also progressive in the political sense? Sure, absolutely, because it improves expendable income for our workers, increases expendable earnings for our businesses, reduces government involvement in the lives of both individuals and our businesses, eliminates needless expensive paper-work, saves our government money, reduces the need for as many entitlement programs and stimulates our economy by removing this enormous burden of mandatory forced income-based taxation from everyone which without question will improve our economy and our society while restoring privacy and liberty.

Is it socialist? No! It's as free enterprise as free market capitalism can get in the area of taxation. It's voluntary, for those who choose it's uniform, it's easy, it's simple, it's transparent, it's compensatory in that those who provide the service of collecting the tax are paid for the service they provide, it's non-intrusive, it restores privacy and applies to everyone who is in our country legally, the same, everyone pays the same rate and everyone who is in our country legally can at their option receive the same Rebate based on the same formula.

Yes, the tax applies to the sale of new goods and services, so yes new property is taxed the same as any new product or service would be. Why would the sale of new property, real or personal, not be taxed like any new product or service? But it isn't a property tax. A property tax taxes the same property over and over all the time forever, no matter who owns it, and it's mandatory. The FairTax taxes the voluntary transaction that transfers a property or any other good or service 1 time, at 1 rate, at the final point of sale to a consumer. A property tax is very different than a sales tax. Sales taxes aren't new, states have been charging sales taxes for years, the federal government has been taxing sales of imported products since our nation was formed.

The FairTax is not a property tax, it's a retail sales tax on new goods and services and of course includes new property of all types.

It won't get any better than the FairTax. Americans need to grab it, run with it and pass it pronto.

www.fairtax.org

Originally Posted by Judy

The FairTax is not a property tax,

SEC. 101. IMPOSITION OF SALES TAX.

`(a) In General- There is hereby imposed a tax on the use or consumption in the United States of taxable property or services.

“What is the FairTax plan? The FairTax plan is a comprehensive proposal … a progressive … tax“___ fairtax.org


JWK


If we can make the majority of voters dependent upon a federal government check, [the fair tax family consumption allowance] we can then bribe them for their vote, keep ourselves in power and keep the remaining portion of America’s working population enslaved to pay the bills

"SEC. 101. IMPOSITION OF SALES TAX.

"`(a) In General- There is hereby imposed a tax on the use or consumption in the United States of taxable property or services."

It says it right there in the legislation that you cite, that the tax is a sales tax on the consumption, of property (goods) and services, which is not a property tax, it's a sales tax on consumption, which means it's a consumption tax, not a property tax, which means it's an indirect tax, not a direct tax, which means it's not subject to state apportionment.

Originally Posted by Judy

"SEC. 101. IMPOSITION OF SALES TAX.

"`(a) In General- There is hereby imposed a tax on the use or consumption in the United States of taxable property or services."

It says it right there in the legislation that you cite, that the tax is a sales tax on the consumption, of property (goods) and services, which is not a property tax, it's a sales tax on consumption, which means it's a consumption tax, not a property tax, which means it's an indirect tax, not a direct tax, which means it's not subject to state apportionment.

It's irrelevant what you call the tax when in fact it would violate the very intentions for which the rule of apportionment was put into our Constitution.

Congress is not vested with a power to lay and collect a “national sales taxâ€

But it doesn't violate the intentions of the founding fathers. It's a consumption tax, like the founding fathers wanted, it's an indirect tax which gives the federal government the right to impose it without apportionment. A sales tax is not a direct general tax like property tax, it's an indirect consumption tax. A direct tax is a mandatory tax on you, your income, your property like our present federal income tax system and local property taxes. An indirect tax is a voluntary tax, like sales and consumption taxes, like the FairTax.

I'm sorry if you don't like it but it is what it is and I totally 100% support it. I think it's the best tax proposal ever presented to the American People, I really hope they grab the brass ring it is for them, and demand passage of it immediately.

www.fairtax.org

Originally Posted by Judy

But it doesn't violate the intentions of the founding fathers. It's a consumption tax,

The founder’s intentions were repeatedly stated during the framing and ratification process of our Constitution. For example: Mr. George Nicholas said: "the proportion of taxes is fixed by the number of inhabitants, and not regulated by the extent of territory, or fertility of soil ___ Each State will know, from its population, its proportion of any general tax. As it was justly observed by the gentleman over the way, (Mr. Randolph), they cannot possibly exceed that proportion; they are limited and restrained expressly to it. The state legislatures have no check of this kind. Their power is uncontrolled." 3 Elliot, 243, 244.



H.R. 25 proposes to accomplish indirectly that which our founding fathers intentionally sought to forbid.

The tax described in H.R. 25 is a tax upon the inalienable right of people to sell their property, real and personal. It is in fact a direct tax, see the Pollock decision.


JWK


If we can make the majority of voters dependent upon a federal government check, [the fair tax family consumption allowance] we can then bribe them for their vote, keep ourselves in power and keep the remaining portion of America’s working population enslaved to pay the bills

I disagree. The obligation to pay the FairTax is not on the seller of the property, but upon purchasers and consumers. It is not a direct tax on real or personal property. It is in indirect consumption tax paid by purchasers and consumers of new goods and services which the seller collects from the purchasers and consumers and forwards to the government, in return for a fee and compensation for the service provided. The only constitutional requirements the FairTax must meet are that is be uniform across the nation, which it is, and that it not be regressive, which it isn't.

The context of the Pollack case was a dispute on income tax assessed to bond income, clearly unconstitutional because the income tax in dispute was a direct tax on assets because it's a tax on the income derived from the asset, not its use by the user, not its consumption by the consumer, but the owner of the asset and the earnings from the asset. The FairTax doesn't tax earner's income in any way, and it doesn't tax the owners of property in any manner, it taxes users on the consumption of these taxable products and services covered by the FairTax, 1 time, at 1 rate, in a uniform fashion, and is limited to new products and services used for non-business purposes. It is paid upon purchase by the purchaser, not the seller, not the owner, not the earner, only the consumer for their consumption of the new item or service, and does so only at a consumption level that exceeds the necessary consumption to live which is also based on a uniform method. The only obligation a seller or owner of property or service has is to collect it from the user, consumer and purchaser, and forward the taxes to the authorities and are paid a fee for the service they are provide.

FREE SPEECH IN DANGER, PLEASE GO HERE AND TAKE ACTION!!!


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