Thread: A Day that will live in Infamy

The birth certificate posted on the Obama campaign website is a certified copy and looks extremely similar to that of my mother, a copy reissued in 1960, that was used to qualify her as a citizen for Medicaid.

If he was born in Honolulu to an American mother, then he is a natural born citizen. Any dual citizenship incidentally acquired would not affect that.

Originally Posted by cayla99

Originally Posted by BetsyRoss

A lot of people are refusing to accept Obama as president.

add me to the list. The only way I will accept him is if he shows he is qualified. The celebrations out of Kenya, the speeches being made there, convince me more than ever he was not born on US soil.

Put my name on there while you're at it.

Quite frankly, even if obama were to prove that he is eligible, I will still not claim him as my president. He represents NOTHING that this nation was founded on or that is in the best interests of the American people.

As for your assessment of what's being seen coming out of Kenya, I completely agree. Just like the celebrations coming from ALL of the Muslim countries and Al Jazeera's sudden expansion into the US coinciding with the "installation" have blown his "Christian" cover story. I give it 6 months to a year....tops....before they no longer feel the need to conceal anything and it will ALL be right out there in the open because by then it will be too late to do anything about it.

Originally Posted by BetsyRoss

The birth certificate posted on the Obama campaign website is a certified copy and looks extremely similar to that of my mother, a copy reissued in 1960, that was used to qualify her as a citizen for Medicaid.

If he was born in Honolulu to an American mother, then he is a natural born citizen. Any dual citizenship incidentally acquired would not affect that.

No, he's not. Perkins v. Elg (1939) makes it quite clear that BOTH parents must be U.S. citizens for the "natural born" to apply.

The most he might be would be a statutory "citizen at birth" under 8 U.S.C. 1401. Lawyers know the difference. I am a lawyer.

Originally Posted by FreedomFirst

I am a lawyer.

You may live to regret that confession

Let me demonstrate. Is it legal to hand out brochures to employees who you suspect are illegals telling them how to avoid being arrested by ICE?

Those parents were both naturalized, not native born. She was born here and did NOT lose her natural born citizenship just because they took her back to Sweden. Where does it demand that both parents be citizens?
http://supreme.justia.com/us/307/325/case.html

According to the Constitution and laws of the United States as interpreted by the courts, a child born to alien parents in the United States is an American citizen, although such child may also be a citizen of the country of his parents according to the law of that country."

"Although there is no express provision in the law of the United States giving election of citizenship in such cases, this department has always held in such circumstances that, if a child is born of foreign parents in the United States, and is taken during minority to the country of his parents, such child upon arriving of age, or within a reasonable time thereafter, must make election between the citizenship which is his by birth and the citizenship which is his by parentage. In case a person so circumstanced elects American citizenship, he must, unless in extraordinary circumstances, in order to render his election effective, manifest an intention in good faith to return with all convenient speed to the United States and assume the duties of citizenship.

The child born of foreign parents in the United States who spends his minority in the foreign country of his parents' nationality is not expressly required by any statute of the United States to make the same election [as the child of American parents born abroad] as he approaches or attains his majority.

So, her parents were foreign, came here, her father underwent naturalization (I don't believe wives had to bother at that time), then later they took her back to Sweden and raised her there. She later returned upon adulthood to the US, and when she was here she was threatened with deportation on the grounds that she had lost her citizenship. The Supreme Court disagreed.

She got to keep her citizenship, withhout a natural born citizen parent. I don't see how this hurts Obama.

Originally Posted by BetsyRoss

Those parents were both naturalized, not native born. She was born here and did NOT lose her natural born citizenship just because they took her back to Sweden. Where does it demand that both parents be citizens?
http://supreme.justia.com/us/307/325/case.html

According to the Constitution and laws of the United States as interpreted by the courts, a child born to alien parents in the United States is an American citizen, although such child may also be a citizen of the country of his parents according to the law of that country."

"Although there is no express provision in the law of the United States giving election of citizenship in such cases, this department has always held in such circumstances that, if a child is born of foreign parents in the United States, and is taken during minority to the country of his parents, such child upon arriving of age, or within a reasonable time thereafter, must make election between the citizenship which is his by birth and the citizenship which is his by parentage. In case a person so circumstanced elects American citizenship, he must, unless in extraordinary circumstances, in order to render his election effective, manifest an intention in good faith to return with all convenient speed to the United States and assume the duties of citizenship.

[quote:29zxcjg3]The child born of foreign parents in the United States who spends his minority in the foreign country of his parents' nationality is not expressly required by any statute of the United States to make the same election [as the child of American parents born abroad] as he approaches or attains his majority.

So, her parents were foreign, came here, her father underwent naturalization (I don't believe wives had to bother at that time), then later they took her back to Sweden and raised her there. She later returned upon adulthood to the US, and when she was here she was threatened with deportation on the grounds that she had lost her citizenship. The Supreme Court disagreed.

She got to keep her citizenship, withhout a natural born citizen parent. I don't see how this hurts Obama.[/quote:29zxcjg3]


I think the point is that she was a natural born citizen because BOTH PARENTS were citizens AT THE TIME OF HER BIRTH. Obamas father was not a citizen of the US of any kind at the time of his birth.

I don't believe it matters if one parent was not a citizen, as long as one parent was. Then you have the transmission of birthright citizenship. Besides, people were making such a big case of him being taken to Indonesia and being listed as a citizen there, but the same thing happened to the Swedish girl and she got to stay a citizen. The idea that one non-citizen parent can taint the citizenship of someone born here to a citizen is what I find disturbing in all these court cases that reference it.

Originally Posted by BetsyRoss

I don't believe it matters if one parent was not a citizen, as long as one parent was. Then you have the transmission of birthright citizenship. Besides, people were making such a big case of him being taken to Indonesia and being listed as a citizen there, but the same thing happened to the Swedish girl and she got to stay a citizen. The idea that one non-citizen parent can taint the citizenship of someone born here to a citizen is what I find disturbing in all these court cases that reference it.

Citizen and natural born citizen are NOT one and the same thing. One parent can confer citizenship, I don't think anybody is disputing that. The problem lies with the definition of what is a natural born citizen. At the time this was written into the constitution, it was common knowledge that a natural born citizen was a child born to two citizens, or at least to a citizen father since the mans citizenship at the time was bestowed onto his wife. Back then, a woman always took her husbands citizenship, leaving behind any she was born with. Most legal rulings, in most countries, hold that either both parents must be citizens or the father must be a citizen at the time of birth for the child to be a natural born citizen.

The idea that only a citizen father could confer birthright citizenship, I believe, was an old concept and was superceded by later law. By the time Obama was born (1961) I don't think it made a difference. I'm not sure what type of citizenship a parent could transmit, otherthan birthright. A natural born citizen is one that is a citizen without needing to go through any naturalization process. A naturalized citizen is one who has to go through a process. I believe that both types are governed by statutes, but the term statutory citizenship is usually used for the type of citizenship whereby Congress declares that citizen rights are given to someone born outside of US territory, i.e. Puerto Rico. People are still arguing about this: http://www.puertorico-herald.org/issues ... 38-en.html

Originally Posted by BetsyRoss

I don't believe it matters if one parent was not a citizen, as long as one parent was. Then you have the transmission of birthright citizenship. Besides, people were making such a big case of him being taken to Indonesia and being listed as a citizen there, but the same thing happened to the Swedish girl and she got to stay a citizen. The idea that one non-citizen parent can taint the citizenship of someone born here to a citizen is what I find disturbing in all these court cases that reference it.

Looks like I am the only one that agrees with you. McCain was born in Panama and has citizenship. NOBODY has ever questioned that. Obama IS our president, get over it. I just don't understand why we keep bringing this up when it is too late. If you guys put your time and effort into illegal immigration instead of trying to discount our new president, then we might actually get somewhere. ALIPAC shouldn't be supporting crazy conspiracy therories that make us sound ignorant. It is time to come together regardless of who we supported for presidency. I voted for Barr, even though that I KNEW that he wouldn't be elected. I am not bitter about it, because if I were, It would be a lot of time wasted. All I know is that if our current president does something I don't like, I have the right as an American to stop it. Whether you guys like it or not, we have acheived a HUGE victory in the struggle against equality. WE HAVE A BLACK PRESIDENT!!! Can anyone here besides Betsy appreciate this moment? I was born in 1975. I don't have a moment, like 1969 when man landed on the moon. But I DO have a moment that I can rejoice in, even though I didn't vote for him. This is MY moment for MY generation. Why do you want to destroy it?

Please, someone here describe to me with FACTS, not speculation why we have to bash someone that so far, has not done any worse than Bush. In fact, he is trying to undo the crap that Bush did to us in the past 8 years. Again, I just want ALIPAC to be respected among the mainstream, not looked at as crazy racists as they do now. The ONLY way to acheive this is by looking at things from a non political stance, and come together under a common goal, no matter how our views may differ. We are about immigration, and the problems that it has caused our great Nation. If you want to bash everything liberal, you have FOX news.

To William:Is our goal to stop illegal immigration, or is it our goal to make the guy we didn't vote for look bad? Why does Obama represent something more evil than what we have already been subjected to in the past 8 years? Bush and his people are TRULY evil. I don't even need proof to show you this. It's out there. We are living it. After 4 years of Obama's presidency I will be able to determine whether he is good or bad. It is time for ALIPAC to STOP being repubs/demos/independent, and unite under the flag of America and stop the invasion!! NOTHING ELSE MATTERS!!