Thread: End-of-life counseling fuels furor on radio

Originally Posted by JohnDoe2

You have a right to spend every last dollar of YOUR money to delay death for a short period of time.

You do not have a right to spend every last dollar of THE TAXPAYERS MONEY to extend your life for a short period of time.

I've already told my family that when I have a major medical problem that they are to go away and let it be over.

I don't want to be a medical experiment than drags death out for months or years.

When it's time to go, just go.

Knee replacement, Pace-makers and angioplasty, and one other are things to be stopped, when Obama's henchmen think you are NOT worth saving. These are not what you want to die over are they? Have you seen it? It's online now, below is some with the page numbers beside it
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Shock: Inside the Healthcare Bill

Monday, July 20, 2009

Following the mad recommendations of Peter Singer made in NYT's Sunday magazine, it pays to take a look at what is actually in the healthcare bill.

It's worse than you can possibly imagine. Somehow, it manages to be Singer on steroids. Who wrote this bill. It has Singer's footprints all over it.

Peter Fleckstein (aka Fleckman) is reading it and has been posting on Twitter his findings. This is from his postings (Note: All comments are Fleckman's)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Pg 22 of the HC Bill MANDATES the Govt will audit books of ALL EMPLOYERS that self insure!!

Pg 30 Sec 123 of HC bill - THERE WILL BE A GOVT COMMITTEE that decides what treatments/benes u get

Pg 29 lines 4-16 in the HC bill - YOUR HEALTHCARE IS RATIONED!!!


Pg 42 of HC Bill - The Health Choices Commissioner will choose UR HC Benefits 4 you. U have no choice!

PG 50 Section 152 in HC bill - HC will be provided 2 ALL non US citizens, illegal or otherwise

Pg 58HC Bill - Govt will have real-time access 2 individs finances & a National ID Healthcard will b issued!

Pg 59 HC Bill lines 21-24 Govt will have direct access 2 ur banks accts 4 elect. funds transfer

PG 65 Sec 164 is a payoff subsidized plan 4 retirees and their families in Unions & community orgs (ACORN).

Pg 72 Lines 8-14 Govt is creating an HC Exchange 2 bring priv HC plans under Govt control.

PG 84 Sec 203 HC bill - Govt mandates ALL benefit pkgs 4 priv. HC plans in the Exchange

PG 85 Line 7 HC Bill - Specs for of Benefit Levels for Plans = The Govt will ration ur Healthcare!

PG 91 Lines 4-7 HC Bill - Govt mandates linguistic approp svcs. Example - Translation 4 illegal aliens

Pg 95 HC Bill Lines 8-18 The Govt will use groups i.e., ACORN & Americorps 2 sign up indiv. for Govt HC plan

PG 85 Line 7 HC Bill - Specs of Ben Levels 4 Plans. #AARP members - U Health care WILL b rationed

-PG 102 Lines 12-18 HC Bill - Medicaid Eligible Indiv. will b automat.enrolled in Medicaid. No choice

pg 124 lines 24-25 HC No company can sue GOVT on price fixing. No "judicial review" against Govt Monop

pg 127 Lines 1-16 HC Bill - Doctors/ #AMA - The Govt will tell YOU what u can make.

Pg 145 Line 15-17 An Employer MUST auto enroll employees into pub opt plan. NO CHOICE

Pg 126 Lines 22-25 Employers MUST pay 4 HC 4 part time employees AND their families.

Pg 149 Lines 16-24 ANY Emplyr w payroll 400k & above who does not prov. pub opt. pays 8% tax on all payroll

pg 150 Lines 9-13 Biz w payroll btw 251k & 400k who doesnt prov. pub. opt pays 2-6% tax on all payroll

Pg 167 Lines 18-23 ANY individual who doesnt have acceptable HC accrdng 2 Govt will be taxed 2.5% of inc

Pg 170 Lines 1-3 HC Bill Any NONRESIDENT Alien is exempt from indiv. taxes. (Americans will pay)

Pg 195 HC Bill -officers & employees of HC Admin (GOVT) will have access 2 ALL Americans finan/pers recs

PG 203 Line 14-15 HC - "The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax" Yes, it says that

Pg 239 Line 14-24 HC Bill Govt will reduce physician svcs 4 Medicaid. Seniors, low income, poor affected

Pg 241 Line 6-8 HC Bill - Doctors, doesnt matter what specialty u have, you'll all be paid the same

PG 253 Line 10-18 Govt sets value of Dr's time, prof judg, etc. Literally value of humans.

PG 265 Sec 1131Govt mandates & controls productivity for private HC industries

PG 268 Sec 1141 Fed Govt regulates rental & purchase of power driven wheelchairs

PG 272 SEC. 1145. TREATMENT OF CERTAIN CANCER HOSPITALS - Cancer patients - welcome to rationing!

Page 280 Sec 1151 The Govt will penalize hospitals 4 what Govt deems preventable readmissions.

Pg 298 Lines 9-11 Drs, treat a patient during initial admiss that results in a readmiss-Govt will penalize u.

Pg 317 L 13-20 OMG!! PROHIBITION on ownership/investment. Govt tells Drs. what/how much they can own.

Pg 317-318 lines 21-25,1-3 PROHIBITION on expansion- Govt is mandating hospitals cannot expand

pg 321 2-13 Hospitals have oppt to apply for exception BUT community input required. Can u say ACORN?!!

Pg335 L 16-25 Pg 336-339 - Govt mandates estab. of outcome based measures. HC the way they want. Rationing

Pg 341 Lines 3-9 Govt has authority 2 disqual Medicare Adv Plans, HMOs, etc. Forcing peeps in2 Govt plan

Pg 354 Sec 1177 - Govt will RESTRICT enrollment of Special needs ppl! V****V. My sis has down syndrome!!

Pg 379 Sec 1191 Govt creates more bureaucracy - Telehealth Advisory Cmtte. Can u say HC by phone?

PG 425 Lines 4-12 Govt mandates Advance Care Planning Consult. Think Senior Citizens end of life

Pg 425 Lines 17-19 Govt will instruct & consult regarding living wills, durable powers of atty. Mandatory!

PG 425 Lines 22-25, 426 Lines 1-3 Govt provides apprvd list of end of life resources, guiding u in death

PG 427 Lines 15-24 Govt mandates program 4 orders 4 end of life. The Govt has a say in how ur life ends

Pg 429 Lines 1-9 An "adv. care planning consult" will b used frequently as patients health deteriorates

PG 429 Lines 10-12 "adv. care consultation" may incl an ORDER 4 end of life plans. AN ORDER from GOV

Pg 429 Lines 13-25 - The govt will specify which Doctors can write an end of life order.

PG 430 Lines 11-15 The Govt will decide what level of treatment u will have at end of life

Pg 469 - Community Based Home Medical Services=Non profit orgs. Hello, ACORN Medical Svcs here!!?

Page 472 Lines 14-17 PAYMENT TO COMMUNITY-BASED ORG. 1 monthly payment 2 a community-based org. Like ACORN?

PG 489 Sec 1308 The Govt will cover Marriage & Family therapy. Which means they will insert Govt in2 ur marriage

Pg 494-498 Govt will cover Mental Health Svcs including defining, creating, rationing those svcs

got it from: http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum ... 844174/pg1

RELATED

Congress' healthcare benefits: membership has its privileges

http://www.alipac.us/ftopict-165337.html

In 2008, taxpayers spent about $15 billion to insure 8.5 million federal workers and their dependents.

Quote from:

Congress' healthcare benefits: membership has its privileges

http://www.alipac.us/ftopict-165337.html
----------------------------------------------------------

If the taxpayers are going to pay $15 billion a year for health care for congress and the other federal employees then
every American Citizen should have the exact same health care that congress has.

They work for us and we pay for their health care. Why shouldn't we get the same care they get.

Originally Posted by JohnDoe2

In 2008, taxpayers spent about $15 billion to insure 8.5 million federal workers and their dependents.

Quote from:

Congress' healthcare benefits: membership has its privileges

http://www.alipac.us/ftopict-165337.html
----------------------------------------------------------

If the taxpayers are going to pay $15 billion a year for health care for congress and the other federal employees then
every American Citizen should have the exact same health care that congress has.





They work for us and we pay for their health care.


Oh, but there's the rub JD2......they no longer work for us. They're supposed to, of course, but we silly Americans really need to stop living in the past.

And, I don't know about you, but as their "former employers", I think we should be off the hook for paying their bills.




Why shouldn't we get the same care they get.


Because only they deserve the best of everything.

We're not fit to lick their boots and we'd damned well better remember that

I heard that because of the lack of doctors and hospitals that even if
you can pay for it you won't be able to purchase more medical help like operations.
Of course unless you work for the Government.

I say we use Chris Dodd as a guinea pig and see how long he lasts AFTER counselling and a pain pill!!!!

COME ON DODD!!!!
MAN UP!

Re: AZWREATH's post: "Peter Fleckstein (aka Fleckman) is reading it and has been posting on Twitter his findings. This is from his postings (Note: All comments are Fleckman's)"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Folks, we have to get our complaints right. There are numerous errors or omissions in this summary of what the health care bill does, or does not do.
For example, the Government does not forbid hospital expansion. What is required is Government approval to expand, and also requires 'community input' .

The bill does not state that the government has real time access to your personal accounts. The bill requires real time access to what your are entitled to, and access to the total cost of the care or procedure and the total cost to the individual. The bill also requires maximum use of electronic transfers for settling accounts, and it does indicate that a 'Health Benefits Card' may be required.

This bill does have a lengthy paragraph on end-of-life counseling, but does not specify whether such counseling is mandatory or voluntary. One of the most vague requirements is at the end of the section on this counseling where the government, as an outcome of the session, may issue an 'order' with regards to continued treatment for the patient. It is unclear (to me) whether the patient must concur with the order, and that is chilling.

Section 152 of the House Bill does not say anything about illegal aliens, or legal ones for that matter. In fact, I found nothing specific anywhere in the bill, but I could have easily missed it. What I did find, elsewhere, were paragraphs dealing with 'non-residents' and provisons for providing interpreters. I believe when the amendment that would have forbidden coverage to illegal aliens was deep-sixed, everything related was deliberately left vague for the lawyers to interpret.

I make these points because every time we holler at our so-called representatives about this, or any other bill, if we do not have our facts dead on, they will disregard the valid points we make and home in on any misunderstanding, misinterpretations, or other errors we make. Reading this bill is difficult. Moby Dick was more fun. At least Classic Comic Books published Moby Dick for those of us that couldn't muddle through it any other way. Too bad they don't publish a Classic Comics version of the Health Bill. [/quote]

You don't have to worry about them taking your money out of you bank accout.
Obama says he's going to pay for everything with a tax on the middle class.

Obama officials: No guarantee on taxes

A tax on middle-class Americans could help with the budget and a health care overhaul.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington ... axes_N.htm

http://www.alipac.us/ftopict-165388.html

Originally Posted by 4thHorseman

Re: AZWREATH's post: "Peter Fleckstein (aka Fleckman) is reading it and has been posting on Twitter his findings. This is from his postings (Note: All comments are Fleckman's)"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Folks, we have to get our complaints right. There are numerous errors or omissions in this summary of what the health care bill does, or does not do.
For example, the Government does not forbid hospital expansion. What is required is Government approval to expand, and also requires 'community input' .

The bill does not state that the government has real time access to your personal accounts. The bill requires real time access to what your are entitled to, and access to the total cost of the care or procedure and the total cost to the individual. The bill also requires maximum use of electronic transfers for settling accounts, and it does indicate that a 'Health Benefits Card' may be required.

This bill does have a lengthy paragraph on end-of-life counseling, but does not specify whether such counseling is mandatory or voluntary. One of the most vague requirements is at the end of the section on this counseling where the government, as an outcome of the session, may issue an 'order' with regards to continued treatment for the patient. It is unclear (to me) whether the patient must concur with the order, and that is chilling.

Section 152 of the House Bill does not say anything about illegal aliens, or legal ones for that matter. In fact, I found nothing specific anywhere in the bill, but I could have easily missed it. What I did find, elsewhere, were paragraphs dealing with 'non-residents' and provisons for providing interpreters. I believe when the amendment that would have forbidden coverage to illegal aliens was deep-sixed, everything related was deliberately left vague for the lawyers to interpret.

I make these points because every time we holler at our so-called representatives about this, or any other bill, if we do not have our facts dead on, they will disregard the valid points we make and home in on any misunderstanding, misinterpretations, or other errors we make. Reading this bill is difficult. Moby Dick was more fun. At least Classic Comic Books published Moby Dick for those of us that couldn't muddle through it any other way. Too bad they don't publish a Classic Comics version of the Health Bill.

[/quote]

My post above (two up) is from Fleckman too....

[quote="4thHorseman"]Re: AZWREATH's post: "Peter Fleckstein (aka Fleckman) is reading it and has been posting on Twitter his findings. This is from his postings (Note: All comments are Fleckman's)"


Can you post a direct link to Mr. Fleckstein's Twitter then?

Everything I have read......at several sources....have all posted the same information from his interpretations.

I would like to read his Twitter in comparison to what has been posted if what has been posted is now being called "misinformation"

Originally Posted by azwreath

Originally Posted by 4thHorseman

Re: AZWREATH's post: "Peter Fleckstein (aka Fleckman) is reading it and has been posting on Twitter his findings. This is from his postings (Note: All comments are Fleckman's)"

Originally Posted by 4thHorseman

Can you post a direct link to Mr. Fleckstein's Twitter then?

Everything I have read......at several sources....have all posted the same information from his interpretations.

I would like to read his Twitter in comparison to what has been posted if what has been posted is now being called "misinformation"

Peter Fleckenstein (fleckman) on Twitter

http://blog.flecksoflife.com/

twitter.com/Fleckman