Thread: Examining the argument of giving up liberty for safety

Jonathan,

What generation do you "hail" from?

A great deal of your argument seems to be colored by age or privilege.

Someone who has had the good fortune to not have participated in any war or "action" or whatever our government deems it to be, does a lot of thinking like this.

The current generation for the most part has been living in a rose garden compared to previous generations. The ones today who are participating in this countries various actions around the world, perhaps would not agree with your arguments. Some yes, some no, depends upon their situation in life.

Its been heard often from the younger generation and privileged, "I have nothing to hide, therefore I could care less what they do." These are also the same group who feel that the government is not providing enough for them, i.e, daycare funds, longer school terms/days for children, basically they seem to think government is there to shoulder their responsibilities. They want more, not less and they think nothing of giving up freedoms/liberties, since they have had little to do with securing those very things they take for granted. Parents must have given too much that so much is expected without the drudge work to obtain. Given too freely, unearned, it seems liberty/freedoms hold little value to those so gifted.

There is no draft registration required. It doesn't seem as if our armed services are overflowing with volunteers either.

Liberal thoughts and actions are all fine and dandy, but they come with a cost real or perceived. Someone has to pay the tab.

I think that there are many on this forum who have fought in unfortunate wars, actions, whatever. There may be people who have been branded on this board as well or have relatives that were in that situation.

This generation has been lucky in that for most of its life there has been little to interrupt their introspection of themselves. Our younger ones have seen too much horror. What they have learned and what seems to defy you, is that there is a lot of horror and madness in this world and its not getting any better.

By allowing the government more control over your life, you are not gaining any better security than you have now. Probably a lot less.

Each of our liberties was won at hard cost. It is not up to us to dishonor those who gave so much so that we would have them.

You also have to remember that what is given to the government never gets given back. Any government takes but never relinquishes what it gains. I won't be branded, nor freely give up any liberty/freedom hard won by my descendents. Would be totally unthinkable for me, to waste their sacrifices.

What generation do you "hail" from?

I am from an older generation that remembers the America of the 1950's as a wonderful and stable era in which divorces were rare, people were honest and illegals really did not exist. This was before the "Great Society" of LBJ that launched the liberal Stalinist state that has opened the gates to the invaders via the 1965 Ted Kennedy immigration bill.

Unless we really get serious about identifying and deporting illegal aliens, we will soon lose our nation altogether. We need to upgrade our existing ID documents to minimize the chance the undocumented aliens acquire ID that allows them to remain in the USA. The principle of Real ID is the same as upgrading our currency to minimze counterfeiting. We need to oppose liberals and ACLU and LULAC's efforts to defeat Real ID as well as their anarchist fellow travellers who are assisting them.

It seems a very vocal minority of RP supporters are assisting the goals of these aforementioned groups, but they are a minority among the movement against illegal aliens that will not prevail against the greater numbers of conservatives and populists that support Romney and Lou Dobbs.

Low blow Jonathan, NO to the Real ID. You are running off to the extreme that in order for you to feel safe, you would have a person implanted with a mark on the forehead.

Sorry can't go there.

Ben's quote fits real well here.

Originally Posted by roundabout

Low blow Jonathan, NO to the Real ID. You are running off to the extreme that in order for you to feel safe, you would have a person implanted with a mark on the forehead.

Sorry can't go there.

Ben's quote fits real well here.

I am not hurling any low blows.
And there's nothing extreme about upgrading our ID standards to prevent illegals from becoming documented, though the ACLU and La Raza and LULAC might think otherwise.

And I do not believe in that Christian superstition about the mark of the beast. But I know the churches that love illegals and give them sanctuary spread that myth.

Jonathan, not only are you opening a can of worms, but you are running into a corner and expecting everyone else to follow.

I met a person that believes that when a baby is born, right then and there the baby should be implanted with a chip into it's buttocks.

Christianity to many people is not a superstition. Such disreguard on your part for their faith, coupled to your lack of understanding for their freedom, just so that you can gain a false sense of security is disheartning to say the least.

A real id of any kind, that was both safe and accurate, 100% of the time could only work after the world has eliminated evil and corruption. Superstitous people know the time has not come, yet. Christians know this as well.

Our government allowed this problem to occur by not enforcing our laws. Open borders and lousy enforcement of immigration laws should not compel citizens to give the state more power over their liberties, and then tell them they are now more secure.

Absolute power corupts absolutely.

Originally Posted by Jonathan

OK, roundabout, then remaining anonymous when boarding a public airliner is not an essential liberty.

Airlines are privately owned corporations and it is legal to board a plane without a photo id. There is no law that requires a photo id to board a plane.

Originally Posted by Jonathan

What generation do you "hail" from?

I am from an older generation that remembers the America of the 1950's as a wonderful and stable era in which divorces were rare, people were honest and illegals really did not exist. This was before the "Great Society" of LBJ that launched the liberal Stalinist state that has opened the gates to the invaders via the 1965 Ted Kennedy immigration bill.

Unless we really get serious about identifying and deporting illegal aliens, we will soon lose our nation altogether. We need to upgrade our existing ID documents to minimize the chance the undocumented aliens acquire ID that allows them to remain in the USA. The principle of Real ID is the same as upgrading our currency to minimze counterfeiting. We need to oppose liberals and ACLU and LULAC's efforts to defeat Real ID as well as their anarchist fellow travellers who are assisting them.

It seems a very vocal minority of RP supporters are assisting the goals of these aforementioned groups, but they are a minority among the movement against illegal aliens that will not prevail against the greater numbers of conservatives and populists that support Romney and Lou Dobbs.

Name calling, throwing insults and making false accusations is a violation of the posting rules.

Originally Posted by Jonathan

A six year old is not old enough to be responsible for handling firearms without the supervision of an adult. His right to bear arms is therefore quite limited.

I disagree. Besides, that is the parents decision, not the governments.
Considering I was a trained gun user by 10 and owner by 13 I don't think age has a darn thing to do with it. Lastly, you realize that a Daisy BB gun is considered a firearm. How many 6 year olds are using them all over America? In some cities, it is illegal to discharge a BB gun within the city limits.

Originally Posted by Johnathan

And I do not believe in that Christian superstition about the mark of the beast. But I know the churches that love illegals and give them sanctuary spread that myth.

You certainly are entitled to your belief, as I am mine. I feel sorry for you and I shall say a prayer on your behalf.

Originally Posted by Johnathan

We need to oppose liberals and ACLU and LULAC's efforts to defeat Real ID as well as their anarchist fellow travellers who are assisting them.

Johnathan, this is very insulting to anyone that opposes the Real ID.

Lastly, you can stop illegal immigration, without implementing the Real ID. You have fallen into the trap. What flavor is the Koolaid this week? This is not a damned if you do, damned if you don't issue. America does not have to have Real ID to defeat illegal immigration.

Dixie

Originally Posted by Jonathan

Originally Posted by roundabout

Yes I agree Jonathan, boarding a public airliner anonymously is not an essential liberty.

Neither is voting or entering a public building if you cannot prove you are an American citizen.

Actually ariliners are private industires, regulated by government. A private industry has the right to refuse service to anyone, like no ID, no service. You have the liberty to use the service but you do not have the right to infringe upon the rights and liberty of the people offering the service.

Dixie

Agreed and well stated Dixie, I was sorta blindsided by the original post.

Making a mental note........look both ways before crossing.