Thread: FairTax and Trade

Originally Posted by johnwk

So, now you want to command and compel Mary and Joe Sixpack to become tax collectors for government? Where in the Constitution has that power been granted to our federal government. And, by what constitutional provision has Congress authority to directly tax the sale of property which Mary and Joe have in their own labor?


JWK


If, by calling a tax indirect when it is essentially direct, the rule of protection could be frittered away, one of the great landmarks defining the boundary between the nation and the states of which it is composed, would have disappeared, and with it one of the bulwarks of private rights and private property. POLLOCK v. FARMERS' LOAN & TRUST CO., 157 U.S. 429 (1895)

Yep, I have absolutely no problem at all "commanding" retail vendors to collect a national sales tax for the government. If they don't like it, they can go get a job and they won't have to be commanded to do anything.

It's no longer their labor when they sell it, it's the buyers who bought it and pay the tax on it.

Originally Posted by Judy

Originally Posted by johnwk

So, now you want to command and compel Mary and Joe Sixpack to become tax collectors for government? Where in the Constitution has that power been granted to our federal government. And, by what constitutional provision has Congress authority to directly tax the sale of property which Mary and Joe have in their own labor?


JWK


If, by calling a tax indirect when it is essentially direct, the rule of protection could be frittered away, one of the great landmarks defining the boundary between the nation and the states of which it is composed, would have disappeared, and with it one of the bulwarks of private rights and private property. POLLOCK v. FARMERS' LOAN & TRUST CO., 157 U.S. 429 (1895)

Yep, I have absolutely no problem at all "commanding" retail vendors to collect a national sales tax for the government. If they don't like it, they can go get a job and they won't have to be commanded to do anything.

It's no long their labor when they sell it, it's the buyers who bought it and pay the tax on it.

Judy, you never answered the question: by what constitutional provision has Congress authority to directly tax [without apportioning the tax] the sale of property which Mary and Joe have in their own labor?


JWK

Originally Posted by johnwk

Judy, you never answered the question: by what constitutional provision has Congress authority to directly tax [without apportioning the tax] the sale of property which Mary and Joe have in their own labor?


JWK

What makes their labor special? Labor is involved in the sale of all new goods and services. Why are they seeking special treatment? I don't understand why they would prefer to pay income tax under the present system instead of collect FairTax and earn a fee for doing so. But whatever ..... not my problem. I'll have to fill out FairTax sales reports that I don't have to do now under our state sales tax, but I don't mind. Well worth it to be rid of the income tax system we now have and give our country the FairTax. Plus you make money doing the reports, so you're not going to get any sympathy from me on this. Not one whit.

Originally Posted by Judy

What makes their labor special? Labor is involved in the sale of all new goods and services.

And all tax is paid out of that income, regardless of what you call it!

Originally Posted by Judy

I'll have to fill out FairTax sales reports that I don't have to do now under our state sales tax, but I don't mind. Well worth it to be rid of the income tax system we now have and give our country the FairTax.

So you admit we would be trading one set of paperwork for another. You may not mind, but the majority aren't sold on it.

Originally Posted by jtdc

And all tax is paid out of that income, regardless of what you call it!

So you admit we would be trading one set of paperwork for another. You may not mind, but the majority aren't sold on it.

Oh no, to both statements.

No individual has any paperwork at all.

No manufacturer has any paperwork at all.

No supplier has any paperwork at all.

No business to business transaction has any paperwork at all.

The only companies or entrepreneurs who have anything at all to do under the FairTax are Retailers, businesses who sell new products and services directly to consumers in the US.

There's about 6 million entities who will be filing very simple sales tax reports under the FairTax versus over 200 million filing complex returns under the income tax.

The Retailers provide 1 piece of information from their business, gross sales to consumers, they do 2 calculations, 23% which is the FairTax they collected, less their 1/4 of 1% fee, which they deduct from the FairTax they collected. That's it. 4 numbers. Two lines on their state sales tax form in 45 states and on a FairTax form if their state doesn't have a sales tax. You write out a check and mail it in. They'll probably set up on-line reporting and payments.

It will easier and more fun sending in the FairTax (OPM) than paying their utility bill (their own money).

The Sales Tax Bureau will report monthly to the public how much was collected, everyone can check it monthly like they check the unemployment rate. And maybe, just maybe, someone can get the Treasury Department to also report how much the government spent that month, so we can check revenue against expenses of our government on a monthly basis just like any good responsible business and enterprise does.

It will be fabulous! It will put Congress under enormous pressure to produce good numbers, to get their affairs in order so we're in the black (surplus) instead of in the red (deficits) each month. There's just so many more advantages to the FairTax than people like you and your cohort FairTax-Haters can comprehend.

It's not your faults, you're just victims of greater arrogance than education. It happens.

Originally Posted by Judy

Oh no, to both statements.

No individual has any paperwork at all.

Why are you making stuff up again, Judy? Mary and Joe Sixpack, who need to work on weekends to earn addition money to meet their economic needs are in fact required to file fairtax returns twelve times a year.

Mary baby sits for neighbors in the community and cleans homes on weekends to raise extra money while Joe, who works for a pluming company as a full-time job, also provides the same plumbing service on his own time to people living in his community to raise extra cash. Both are required to file fairtax returns!


`SEC. 501. MONTHLY REPORTS AND PAYMENTS.
`(a) Tax Reports and Filing Dates-
`(1) IN GENERAL- On or before the 15th day of each month, each person who is--
`(A) liable to collect and remit the tax imposed by this subtitle by reason of section 103(a), or



SEC. 103. RULES RELATING TO COLLECTION AND REMITTANCE OF TAX.

`(a) Liability for Collection and Remittance of the Tax- Except as provided otherwise by this section, any tax imposed by this subtitle shall be collected and remitted by the seller of taxable property or services, and that would be Mary and Joe Sixpack as I described above

Judy, why do you constantly make stuff up about the alleged fairtax?

JWK

Originally Posted by johnwk

Why are you making stuff up again, Judy? Mary and Joe Sixpack, who need to work on weekends to earn addition money to meet their economic needs are in fact required to file fairtax returns twelve times a year.

Mary baby sits for neighbors in the community and cleans homes on weekends to raise extra money while Joe, who works for a pluming company as a full-time job, also provides the same plumbing service on his own time to people living in his community to raise extra cash. Both are required to file fairtax returns!


`SEC. 501. MONTHLY REPORTS AND PAYMENTS.
`(a) Tax Reports and Filing Dates-
`(1) IN GENERAL- On or before the 15th day of each month, each person who is--
`(A) liable to collect and remit the tax imposed by this subtitle by reason of section 103(a), or



SEC. 103. RULES RELATING TO COLLECTION AND REMITTANCE OF TAX.

`(a) Liability for Collection and Remittance of the Tax- Except as provided otherwise by this section, any tax imposed by this subtitle shall be collected and remitted by the seller of taxable property or services, and that would be Mary and Joe Sixpack as I described above

Judy, why do you constantly make stuff up about the alleged fairtax?

JWK

Yes, that is right, they are retail entities when they do that. A retail entity can be an individual, but they are not required to file because they are an individual like one is required to file as an individual under the individual income tax code, they are filing FairTax reports because they collect FairTax as a retail entity serving consumers and they both are paid a nice fee for their service.

Joe goes home every month with all his paychecks from work, free from federal income tax, no withholding tax for personal income tax or payroll tax has been withheld, no employer had to file a monthly withholding report on him, so everyone wins. Joe and Mary earn a collection fee from the FairTax, they pay no personal income tax or payroll tax, and if they choose to do so, they can sign up for the Rebate and enjoy tax free spending up to the family consumption allowance. Joe and Mary Sixpack come out very well on the FairTax, it's worth thousands of dollars of disposable expendable income to them every year.

But if they don't want to do that for some untold reason, Mary can get jobs with cleaning and day care services and then she isn't responsible for FairTax reports, and Joe can work extra hours with his employer. Plumbers serve round the clock so there should be no shortage of over-time opportunities on the weekends for Joe to pick up "extra cash". Its' their choice.

Originally Posted by jtdc

And all tax is paid out of that income, regardless of what you call it!

So you admit we would be trading one set of paperwork for another. You may not mind, but the majority aren't sold on it.

It's not only one set of paperwork for another. Under the alleged fairtax ordinary working people who sell the property each has in their own labor must file fairtax returns twelve freaken times a year, under a penalty of perjury. And that doesn't even include any excise taxes imposed upon them which are calculated from profits, gains and other incomes which also require additional paper work.


The very intention of the alleged fairtax is to create two new taxes, two new tax collecting agencies, keep alive Congress' power to lay and collect income based taxes while tightening the iron fist of our federal government around the necks of the American people and their businesses.


JWK

Originally Posted by johnwk

It's not only one set of paperwork for another. Under the alleged fairtax ordinary working people who sell the property each has in their own labor must file fairtax returns twelve freaken times a year, under a penalty of perjury. And that doesn't even include any excise taxes imposed upon them which are calculated from profits, gains and other incomes which also require additional paper work.


The very intention of the alleged fairtax is to create two new taxes, two new tax collecting agencies, keep alive Congress' power to lay and collect income based taxes while tightening the iron fist of our federal government around the necks of the American people and their businesses.


JWK

Oh quit whining and grow a pair. You pay your utility bill every month, you pay your rent or mortgage every month, you pay insurance every month, you pay your phone, internet and cable bill every month, so you can pay the FairTax you collected on your "services" every month so the government who has it's bills every month doesn't have to borrow money waiting over a year for you to file an income tax return and trickle in your income and self-employment tax you owe. The FairTax will save the government billions of dollars a year in interest because the FairTax is collected and paid monthly.

Originally Posted by Judy

You pay your utility bill every month, you pay your rent or mortgage every month, you pay insurance every month, you pay your phone, internet and cable bill every month, so you can pay the FairTax you collected on your "services" every month so the government who has it's bills every month doesn't have to borrow money waiting over a year for you to file an income tax return and trickle in your income and self-employment tax you owe.

But Income tax only needs to be filed once a year!

Originally Posted by Judy

The FairTax will save the government billions of dollars a year in interest because the FairTax is collected and paid monthly.

They would just find a new way to spend it!