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Thread: The fairtax vs the Fair Share Balanced Budget Amendment

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  1. #1
    Senior Member johnwk's Avatar
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    The fairtax vs the Fair Share Balanced Budget Amendment

    .
    While the ringleaders of the “fairtax” claim the IRS will be closed down, the fairtax is intentionally designed to create two new tax collecting agencies, the “Excise Tax Bureau” and a “Sales Tax Bureau”, not to mention it keeps the “Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms” open for business. Additionally, under the alleged fairtax, fairtax returns are required to be filed twelve times a year, and Congress has power to require any type of record keeping it wants, however burdensome they may be.

    If the Fair Share Balanced Budget Amendment were passed, there would be no more federal taxes calculated from profits, gains, salaries, wages or other incomes, and thus, no need for a federal agency collecting such taxes.

    Because of its devastating effects [including a 23 percent tax on the necessities of life], if the alleged fairtax were adopted, it would create a new federal entitlement called the Family Consumption Allowance, and would send a monthly check to qualified families, which would allow them to purchase a rationed supplies of tax free articles. This, of course, makes the poor dependent upon a new federal handout and would encourage them to vote for socialists and progressives who promise to increase the monthly government check.

    Under the Fair Share Balanced Budget Amendment each article to be taxed internally is to be chosen and a specific amount of tax may be placed on the article, while the necessities of life are intended to not be taxed, and thus the Fair Share Balanced Budget Amendment does not require a new federal entitlement to be created. Additionally, under the FSBA the marketplace determines the limit of tax on each article selected, which is in harmony with the free market system our Founders created.

    While the alleged fairtax ringleaders boast it would end income based taxes, it does not withdraw Congress’ power to lay and collect income based taxes such as the Corporate Excise Tax of 1909. Likewise, it does not prevent Congress from laying and collecting excise taxes on individuals which may be calculated from profits, gains, salaries and other incomes.


    By Contrast, the Fair Share Balanced Budget Amendment does withdraw Congress’ power to lay and collect any taxes calculated from profits, gains, salaries and other lawfully earned incomes. In fact, the FSBA returns our founder’s intentions requiring our federal government to raise its primary revenue from taxes on consumption. Is this not what the ringleaders of the alleged fairtax say is their goal?


    JWK

    To support the "FairTax" (H.R. 25) is to support our Global Governance Crowd and their doings such as Fast Track Trade Promotion Authority, WTO, NAFTA, GATT, CAFTA, and the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) deal ___ all used to circumvent America First trade policies, while fattening the fortunes of international corporate giants who have no allegiance to America or ANY country.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Judy's Avatar
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    The Globalists oppose the FairTax. NAM (National Association of Manufacturers) comprised mostly of multi-national companies oppose the FairTax. So does the US Chamber of Commerce. The NFIB, National Federation of Independent Businesses, our national, smaller companies and businesses, all support the FairTax.

    The IRS collects Excise Tax now, why do you object to an Excise Tax Bureau to do the work on this small amount of tax when we shut down and abolish the IRS? Do you also want to repeal Excise Taxes?

    The only entities that have to file a very simple monthly FairTax report 12 x a year are Retail Businesses, everyone else does nothing with produce and shop.

    I'm glad to see your plan taxes "necessities of life". That's a huge win for me and the FairTax, because most Americans are pretty hooked on having at least some amount of their "necessities" tax free.

    But nice to see you getting .... pathetically desperate.

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  3. #3
    Senior Member johnwk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Judy View Post
    The Globalists oppose the FairTax.
    Hmmmm. The fact is, the founder of fairtax.org., is Leo E. Linbeck Jr., a Texas corporate titan and former ringleader of the federal reserve banking cartel which plunders our national treasury. And we are to believe his nonsense and blathering about the alleged fairtax?

    In any event, once again you avoid the subject of the thread and misdirect to conceal the devastating consequences attached to the alleged fairtax.



    JWK



    There is no better way to weaken, destroy and subjugate a prosperous and freedom loving country than by illegally importing the world’s poverty stricken populations into that country and making the country’s existing citizens tax-slaves to support the economic needs of such an invasion.
    Last edited by johnwk; 06-18-2018 at 12:06 PM.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Judy's Avatar
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    Well, John, for years I've looked at your posts about your plan and can't figure out who it taxes, when it taxes, what it taxes or what the rate is, besides billing states for federal spending. All I've been able to find in all your posts about your plan is that you are pulling on an apportionment clause in the US Constitution which has never once, not once, been used in the history of our country, that allows the federal government to spend at will and send bills to the states to come up with the revenue to pay for it.

    The funniest thing is this is already in the US Constitution, so you don't even need a Constitutional Amendment to do that. The federal government can do this any day, any time it chooses to do so right now under the US Constitution.
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  5. #5
    Senior Member Judy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnwk View Post
    Hmmmm. The fact is, the founder of fairtax.org., is Leo E. Linbeck Jr., a Texas corporate titan and former ringleader of the federal reserve banking cartel which plunders our national treasury. And we are to believe his nonsense and blathering about the alleged fairtax?

    In any event, once again you avoid the subject of the thread and misdirect to conceal the devastating consequences attached to the alleged fairtax.



    JWK



    There is no better way to weaken, destroy and subjugate a prosperous and freedom loving country than by illegally importing the world’s poverty stricken populations into that country and making the country’s existing citizens tax-slaves to support the economic needs of such an invasion.
    That is what the present income tax system is doing now which the FairTax repeals. Not only does the FairTax repeal all that income tax nonsense, it penalizes illegal aliens in the market place paying a FairTax on their new goods and services without offset, while Americans are eligible for a Rebate to offset some of their necessities which gives Americans a sizable advantage over illegal aliens.

    Sound minds realize the FairTax not only removes a HUUUGE incentive of illegal immigration handed out by the income tax system, the FairTax actually penalizes them with a 23% tax on every dime they spend here on new goods and services when Americans have an offset for necessities.

    What good American would oppose that?!!!! Same thing with trade, the FairTax taxes all imports that end up sold in the US 23% versus the existing system that taxes them nothing or almost nothing. We'd collect over $440 to $460 billion a year on .... imports until they subside, then we collect from our own producers who can now compete on a level playing field which because they're our companies and have no other major federal taxes to pay, gives our companies a HUUUUGE competitive advantage.

    What good American would oppose that??!!!
    Last edited by Judy; 06-18-2018 at 04:51 PM.
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  6. #6
    Senior Member johnwk's Avatar
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    Fair Share Balanced Budget Amendment

    Quote Originally Posted by Judy View Post
    Well, John, for years I've looked at your posts about your plan and can't figure out who it taxes, when it taxes, what it taxes or what the rate is, besides billing states for federal spending. .

    It could be you have a reading comprehension problem, or, an intentional desire to ignore our Constitution's original tax plan as it was intended to operate by the Founders. So, let us take a look at the wisdom and brilliance of our Founder's original tax plan which is proposed as follows.


    The Fair Share Balanced Budget Amendment


    “SECTION 1. The Sixteenth Amendment is hereby repealed and Congress is henceforth forbidden to lay ``any`` tax or burden calculated from profits, gains, interest, salaries, wages, tips, inheritances or any other lawfully realized money.


    NOTE: these words would return us to our founding father’s ORIGINAL TAX PLAN as they intended it to operate! They would also end the failed experiment with allowing Congress to lay and collect taxes calculated from lawfully earned "incomes" which now oppresses America‘s economic engine and robs the bread which working people have earned when selling their labor!


    "SECTION 2. Congress ought not raise money by borrowing, but when the money arising from imposts duties and excise taxes are insufficient to meet the public exigencies, and Congress has raised money by borrowing during the course of a fiscal year, Congress shall then lay a direct tax at the beginning of the next fiscal year for an amount sufficient to extinguish the preceding fiscal year's deficit, and apply the revenue so raised to extinguishing said deficit."


    NOTE: Congress is to raise its primary revenue from imposts and duties, [taxes at our water’s edge], and may also lay miscellaneous internal excise taxes on specifically chosen articles of consumption. But if Congress borrows and spends more than is brought in from imposts, duties and miscellaneous excise taxes during the course of a fiscal year, then, and only then, is the apportioned tax to be laid.


    "SECTION 3. When Congress is required to lay a direct tax in accordance with Section 1 of this Article, the Secretary of the United States Treasury shall, in a timely manner, calculate each State's apportioned share of the total sum being raised by dividing its total population size by the total population of the united states and multiplying that figure by the total being raised by Congress, and then provide the various State Congressional Delegations with a Bill notifying their State’s Executive and Legislature of its share of the total tax being collected and a final date by which said tax shall be paid into the United States Treasury."


    NOTE: our founder’s fair share formula to extinguish an annual deficit would be:


    States’ population

    ---------------------------- X SUM TO BE RAISED = STATE’S FAIR SHARE

    Total U.S. Population


    The above formula, as intended by our founding fathers, is to insure that those states who contribute the lion’s share of the tax are guaranteed a representation in Congress proportionately equal to their contribution, i.e., representation with a proportional financial obligation!



    Note also that each State’s number or Representatives, under our Constitution is determined by the rule of apportionment:


    State`s Pop.
    ------------------- X House size (435) = State`s No. of Representatives
    U.S. Pop.



    "SECTION 4. Each State shall be free to assume and pay its quota of the direct tax into the United States Treasury by a final date set by Congress, but if any State shall refuse or neglect to pay its quota, then Congress shall send forth its officers to assess and levy such State's proportion against the real property within the State with interest thereon at the rate of ((?)) per cent per annum, and against the individual owners of the taxable property. Provision shall be made for a 15% discount for those States paying their share by ((?))of the fiscal year in which the tax is laid, and a 10% discount for States paying by the final date set by Congress, such discount being to defray the States' cost of collection."


    NOTE: This section respects the Tenth Amendment and allows each state to raise its share in its own chosen way in a time period set by Congress, but also allows the federal government to enter a state and collect the tax if a state is delinquent in meeting its obligation.


    "SECTION 5. This Amendment to the Constitution, when ratified by the required number of States, shall take effect no later than (?) years after the required number of States have ratified it.


    JWK


    “…..with all these blessings, what more is necessary to make us a happy and a prosperous people? Still one thing more, fellow-citizens—a wise and frugal Government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government, and this is necessary to close the circle of our felicities“. Thomas Jefferson, First Inaugural Address

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Judy View Post
    What good American would oppose that?!!!!
    ME!

    Quote Originally Posted by Judy
    What good American would oppose that??!!!
    ME!

  8. #8
    Senior Member Judy's Avatar
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    Nope. We've got the "good, the bad and the ugly". Circle you "bad".
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  9. #9
    Senior Member Judy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnwk View Post
    It could be you have a reading comprehension problem, or, an intentional desire to ignore our Constitution's original tax plan as it was intended to operate by the Founders. So, let us take a look at the wisdom and brilliance of our Founder's original tax plan which is proposed as follows.


    The Fair Share Balanced Budget Amendment


    “SECTION 1. The Sixteenth Amendment is hereby repealed and Congress is henceforth forbidden to lay ``any`` tax or burden calculated from profits, gains, interest, salaries, wages, tips, inheritances or any other lawfully realized money.


    NOTE: these words would return us to our founding father’s ORIGINAL TAX PLAN as they intended it to operate! They would also end the failed experiment with allowing Congress to lay and collect taxes calculated from lawfully earned "incomes" which now oppresses America‘s economic engine and robs the bread which working people have earned when selling their labor!


    "SECTION 2. Congress ought not raise money by borrowing, but when the money arising from imposts duties and excise taxes are insufficient to meet the public exigencies, and Congress has raised money by borrowing during the course of a fiscal year, Congress shall then lay a direct tax at the beginning of the next fiscal year for an amount sufficient to extinguish the preceding fiscal year's deficit, and apply the revenue so raised to extinguishing said deficit."


    NOTE: Congress is to raise its primary revenue from imposts and duties, [taxes at our water’s edge], and may also lay miscellaneous internal excise taxes on specifically chosen articles of consumption. But if Congress borrows and spends more than is brought in from imposts, duties and miscellaneous excise taxes during the course of a fiscal year, then, and only then, is the apportioned tax to be laid.


    "SECTION 3. When Congress is required to lay a direct tax in accordance with Section 1 of this Article, the Secretary of the United States Treasury shall, in a timely manner, calculate each State's apportioned share of the total sum being raised by dividing its total population size by the total population of the united states and multiplying that figure by the total being raised by Congress, and then provide the various State Congressional Delegations with a Bill notifying their State’s Executive and Legislature of its share of the total tax being collected and a final date by which said tax shall be paid into the United States Treasury."


    NOTE: our founder’s fair share formula to extinguish an annual deficit would be:


    States’ population

    ---------------------------- X SUM TO BE RAISED = STATE’S FAIR SHARE

    Total U.S. Population


    The above formula, as intended by our founding fathers, is to insure that those states who contribute the lion’s share of the tax are guaranteed a representation in Congress proportionately equal to their contribution, i.e., representation with a proportional financial obligation!



    Note also that each State’s number or Representatives, under our Constitution is determined by the rule of apportionment:


    State`s Pop.
    ------------------- X House size (435) = State`s No. of Representatives
    U.S. Pop.



    "SECTION 4. Each State shall be free to assume and pay its quota of the direct tax into the United States Treasury by a final date set by Congress, but if any State shall refuse or neglect to pay its quota, then Congress shall send forth its officers to assess and levy such State's proportion against the real property within the State with interest thereon at the rate of ((?)) per cent per annum, and against the individual owners of the taxable property. Provision shall be made for a 15% discount for those States paying their share by ((?))of the fiscal year in which the tax is laid, and a 10% discount for States paying by the final date set by Congress, such discount being to defray the States' cost of collection."


    NOTE: This section respects the Tenth Amendment and allows each state to raise its share in its own chosen way in a time period set by Congress, but also allows the federal government to enter a state and collect the tax if a state is delinquent in meeting its obligation.


    "SECTION 5. This Amendment to the Constitution, when ratified by the required number of States, shall take effect no later than (?) years after the required number of States have ratified it.


    JWK


    “…..with all these blessings, what more is necessary to make us a happy and a prosperous people? Still one thing more, fellow-citizens—a wise and frugal Government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government, and this is necessary to close the circle of our felicities“. Thomas Jefferson, First Inaugural Address
    Yep, and they haven't used their "brilliance" once, not once, in the history of the United States. But thank you for confirming that I was right about your plan which is for the federal government to force the states to raise the revenue to pay the bills of the federal government.

    "no longer in print" says it all. But hey, let me know when you've got 38 states to sign on to ratify your "Amendment".
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  10. #10
    Senior Member johnwk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Judy View Post
    Yep, and they haven't used their "brilliance" once, not once, in the history of the United States.

    What on earth are you talking about . . . "they haven't used their brilliance once"?


    JWK

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