Thread: FBI Confiscates "Ron Paul" coins in Idaho Raid

Originally Posted by TexasCowgirl

Originally Posted by SOSADFORUS

FBI raids seize dies, records in CdA

In a 1999 interview with The Spokesman-Review, von NotHaus claimed his money was not only legal, but much-needed competition for the government. At the time, Federal Reserve and House Banking Committee officials collectively scratched their heads when asked if von NotHaus' coin business was illegal.

No money is illegal, it's undocumented!!!!

Good one TexasCowgirl.

Maybe the Prez, is jealous Ron Paul will have a coin when he can't find a way to get his Amero printed.

Originally Posted by TexasCowgirl

Originally Posted by SOSADFORUS

FBI raids seize dies, records in CdA

In a 1999 interview with The Spokesman-Review, von NotHaus claimed his money was not only legal, but much-needed competition for the government. At the time, Federal Reserve and House Banking Committee officials collectively scratched their heads when asked if von NotHaus' coin business was illegal.

No money is illegal, it's undocumented!!!!

GOOD ONE!!!
Can't believe I didn't think of that one, must be slowing up

It would make one wonder at the timing of this.

I, too, think it means they are scared.

Everyone seems to be afraid of this man. That seems like a good thing to me.

SOSADFORUS wrote:

Remember RON PAUL had NOTHING to do with this, this is someone supporting his canididacy. He can not be held responsible for what others do.

I must have missed it, did someone suggest Ron Paul had anything to do with it?

I haven't read anything that suggests he did.

Although --- it would not surprise me to hear or see some 'planted' stories from our government to that effect.

What law is being broken here? Does anyone know the official charges?

Day II - FBI Raid on the Liberty Dollar

Friday, November 16, 2007: Make no mistake, the FBI and Secret Service raid on the Liberty Dollar at 8:00 AM on Wednesday, was a direct assault against the US Constitution and your right to own and use gold and silver in any way you chose.

I personally spoke to FBI agent Andrew Romagnuolo shortly after he and his gang invaded the peaceful home of the Liberty Dollar. He told me that the raid was related to the US Mint's warning and the beginning of a criminal investigation. This is the first battle of a long war that I intend to win!

Please note the Search Warrant, Seizure Warrant and Agent info is now posted. Click HERE for that info. If that link does not work the URL is: http://www.libertydollar.org/ld/legal/raid.htm.

Also posted is the correspondence between US Senator Bill Nelson of Florida and Edmond C Moy, Director of the US Mint. Of particular interest is Moy's statement that the paper Certificates are not covered by the Title 18, Section 486 and hence legal. So there was no need to raid Sunshine Mint and confiscate all the gold and silver that backs the paper and digital currencies.

No need, unless the government knew their 486 case didn't have a snowball's chance in hell of winning and needed to expand their case into the never-never land of mail fraud, wire fraud and money laundering as mentioned in the Seizure Warrant. I anticipate being arrested on any one or all of these charges.

But I see my arrest and trial as a golden opportunity to win and return our great country to a value based currency. I sincerely believe that the right creative marketer could orchestrate an effective counter attack and win big. I believe the Liberty Dollar will win and become one of the great institutions in America. I have devoted the past ten year to the Liberty Dollar and am willing to risk a few years in federal prison to vindicate it. Winning is certainly possible, even probable with your help.

Winning will require good, dedicated legal support and your support. First, if you are angry and resent the government's assault on your right to own and use gold as you please then call the agents and express your displeasure of their actions in a polite way. Don't kill the messenger, just tell them they are wrong. Add your voice to this movement.

Second: If you are owed an order and want to get your money back or have paper certificates or digital Liberty Dollars, I urge you to demand redemption or the return of your money by joining the Class Action Lawsuit. Your participation is absolutely critical. If you don't join the CAL you will not get your money back. Please click HERE to sign up for the Class Action Lawsuit. If that link does not work, the URL is:
http://www.libertydollar.org/classaction/index.php.

Third: A Legal Defense Fund will be established very soon. Its purpose is to win the criminal case and get your money back. It will take money to make it successful. So your contribution is also critical. Please don't let the government steal your money.

So if you have an existing order, want to redeem your paper Certificates or digital Liberty Dollars, please join the fight to defend our right to own and use gold as you so chose and sign up for the Class Action Lawsuit. This is the only way you will get your stolen property back.

If you have no standing and want to finally get involved, no problem. There is still $20 million Liberty Dollars in circulation. Simply get some paper Liberty Dollars and sign up for the Class Action Lawsuit. There is still time for all the thick-headed Lewrockwellites, Markskousenites, Dougcaseyites and Agoraites to pull your head out and get 'right' on this important issue.

I regret to inform you that the Liberty Dollar office is now closed. The government boys took everything except for the desks and chairs. We have no stock, no records, no money. I can't even change the phone message because they took the phone manuals. Nor can I answer the thousands of email and calls from a national organization that now numbers into the hundreds of thousands. I am the last man standing. I need your help.

Thank you for your many offers of help. Now is the time for us to help our selves and our great country as it faces the greatest monetary challenge since the Revolutionary War. Buying gold and silver is good for you, but it will not solve our country's problems.

Government requires participation. The problems we have today are because our parents did not participate. Please keep using the Liberty Dollar. Keep the ideals and benefits of real money alive. Gold and silver is going to be very rewarding as the US dollar disintegrates. Please join the Class Action Lawsuit and give something to the Legal Defense Fund when it is established.

But you don't have to wait. Donations can be sent to the old address as the mail is now being forwarded. Of course we will still accept Liberty Dollars, but unfortunately due to the current situation, the attorneys require those dreaded depreciating US dollars.

Please make your check or money order out to me as there is no other bank account and mail it to: Liberty Dollar, 225 N. Stockwell Road. Evansville. Indiana. 47715.

Now is the time to band together and support our fight for value based currency as never before. Now is the time to throw off the yoke of a manipulated monetary/tax system and generate a peaceful and prosperous society.

Thank you, thank you, thank you for your offer of help, prayers and support.
The Liberty Dollar and our great country sincerely needs your support.

God bless you and our great country!

Bernard von NotHaus
Monetary Architect

http://www.libertydollar.org/ld/legal/raid.htm

Originally Posted by TexasCowgirl

Originally Posted by SOSADFORUS

FBI raids seize dies, records in CdA

In a 1999 interview with The Spokesman-Review, von NotHaus claimed his money was not only legal, but much-needed competition for the government. At the time, Federal Reserve and House Banking Committee officials collectively scratched their heads when asked if von NotHaus' coin business was illegal.

No money is illegal, it's undocumented!!!!

Raid target: 'This is war'
Liberty Dollar founder says, 'I intend to win'

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted: November 17, 2007
1:00 a.m. Eastern


By Bob Unruh
© 2007 WorldNetDaily.com


The government's raid shutting down the Evansville, Ind., offices of Liberty Dollar was a declaration of war, company founder Bernard von NotHaus says. But the confiscation of its stockpiles of gold, silver and coins also was just the "first battle of a long war that I intend to win!"

The company makes and distributes Liberty Dollar coins in various denominations and had announced that it had been closed down by a raid of FBI and U.S. Secret Service officers who confiscated gold, silver, platinum, coins, documents, "everything but the desks and chairs."

"For approximately six hours they took all the gold, all the silver, all the platinum, and almost two tons of Ron Paul Dollars that were just delivered last Friday. They also took all the files and computers and froze our bank accounts," von NotHaus wrote in an urgent notification of the situation to supporters.


The Peace Dollar, by Liberty Dollar


Federal authorities in the U.S. attorney's office in North Carolina, to whom WND was referred when the FBI and Secret Service were questioned, continued to decline to release information about their case, although they admitted the action took place.

But von NotHaus followed up with a detailed explanation of what was going on, and posted on the internet documents supporting his claims.

"Make no mistake, the FBI and Secret Service raid on the Liberty Dollar … was a direct assault against the U.S. Constitution and your right to own and use gold and silver in any way you choose," he said.

"I personally spoke to FBI agent Andrew Romagnuolo shortly after he and his gang invaded the peaceful home of the Liberty Dollar. He told me that the raid was related to the U.S. Mint's warning and the beginning of a criminal investigation."

The Mint, some weeks earlier, had posted on its website a warning that "the use of these gold and silver … 'Liberty Dollar' medallions as circulating money is federal crime."

"The United States Mint urges consumers who are considering the purchase or use of these items to be aware that they are not genuine United States Mint bullion coins and they are not legal tender," the Mint said.

"'Liberty Dollar' medallions are specifically intended to be used as current money in order to limit reliance on, and to compete with the circulating coinage of the United States," the Mint said. "Consequently, prosecutors with the United States Department of Justice have concluded that use of … 'Liberty Dollar' medallions violates [federal law.]"

Von NotHaus challenges that with the posting of correspondence on his website from Edmond C. Moy, director of the U.S. Mint, that his company's paper certificates are "not covered by the Title 18, Section 486 and hence legal."

So there was no need for the raid to confiscate "all the gold and silver that backs the paper and digital currencies," he said. "No need, unless the government knew their ... case didn't have a snowball's chance … of winning and needed to expand their case into the never-never land of mail fraud, wire fraud and money laundering as mentioned in the seizure warrant," von NotHaus said.

The seizure warrant signed by Magistrate Judge Dennis Howell of Asheville, N.C., noted that the FBI specifically was ordered to confiscate "American Liberty Dollar and/or Hawaii Dala currency and/or precious metals of gold, silver, copper, platinum or other substance and United States currency" because it is "involved in, or traceable to, money laundering … or mail fraud."

"I anticipate being arrested on any one or all of these charges," von NotHaus said.

But he continued. "I see my arrest and trial as a golden opportunity to win and return our great country to a value based currency. … I believe the Liberty Dollar will win and become one of the great institutions in America. I have devoted the past 10 years to the Liberty Dollar and am willing to risk a few years in federal prison to vindicate it."

He said a class action lawsuit is being assembled for those who have the coins, or had purchased them and were awaiting delivery, and a legal defense fund will be established soon to pursue the case.

Forum participants on the issue didn't hold back on their feelings:

"I'm so tired of people claiming that the U.S. is still the best country in the world, love it or leave it, etc. FREEDOM IS NOT RELALTIVE! You are free or your are a slave. We are slaves. I'm in the 15 percent salve bracket. Which one are you in?" wrote "New Guard."

"It is frightening to see our U.S.A. has so many sadly ignorant (or maybe overly self-medicated) readers calling precious metals (like silver and gold) 'fake' and 'good ol' greenbacks' from that privately-held company we call the Federal Reserve who sells debt notes (not backed by gold or silver, but rather fiat currency) as real," added Timothy4USA.

Von NotHaus earlier said since the company has no money, no products and not even any records, he did not know when, if ever, operations would resume.

Company information says von NotHaus developed the Liberty Dollar in 1998 as an "inflation-proof" alternative currency to Federal Reserve Notes. The U.S. government, however, historically has taken a dim view of anything monetary that could be perceived as substituting for Federal Reserve Notes.

Authorities have attacked such alternatives as counterfeiting, while supporters of such bartering tools attack the Federal Reserve Notes as fakes.

That opinion was shared by Lance Haverkamp, who joined in a forum at the Courier-Press newspaper on the issue.

"Do you realize how stupid it is to say the green stuff is 'real' and the gold & silver is 'fake'… You must work for the government!" he wrote.

The organization explained its position like this:

"It's incredible how few people know the facts about the Federal Reserve. The organization chaired by Ben Bernanke is not 'Federal' – it is instead a cabal of private and international banks that does not answer to the United States government. And while there is some precious metal stored in Fort Knox, it doesn't back the debt based 'fiat' U.S. dollar that they issue, because nothing backs it except your trust in the system! Even a casual look at the Fed's history leads one to wonder how an institution that profits mightily from its own policies of victimizing Americans has maintained control over the money of the wealthiest nation on Earth. For those who have made a serious inquiry, the Federal Reserve is shadowed in deceptive origins and fraudulent policies."

Its alternative is a series of coins made of precious metals that can be exchanged for an assigned dollar amount. Over its history, the company has produced the California Bear, Chambersburg Dollar, Evansville Dollar, Hawaii Dala, Peace Dollar and the new Ron Paul Dollar, among others.

The company posts testimonies from those who have used the Liberties.

"I am writing this to Liberty Dollar in hopes that it can be used to help with support," wrote a fan, M. Symonds, of Dallas, Texas, who reported using the coinage for $700 expenses on a trip to Austin.

"My entire trip was funded with The Liberty Dollar. It used it everywhere I went. … I am here to tell you that the major chains and businesses will accept them. Here is a list of some of the places I used them: Joe's Fina Mart, Placido, Texas; James Texaco, Lolita, Texas; Jack In The Box, Austin, Texas; Chevron, Schulenburg, Texas; McDonalds, Port Lavaca, Texas, Wal-Mart, Port Lavaca, Texas; Reeds Grocery, Odem, Texas…"

"The only catch is that as the Liberty Dollar is voluntary, your bank may not accept it for deposit," the company website said. "Of course, this also means that money cannot be siphoned away from your community by big box retailers. The Liberty Dollar is designed to stay in your community of origin for the advantage of the community."

For example, a construction worker is paid a $20 Liberty for services, he then takes it to a grocery story for $20 in groceries. The store owner pays a local utility bill with the coin, and that coin then goes to a utility company employee for wages. That employee then pays it back to the construction worker for a remodeling project.


http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/artic ... E_ID=58739

If your going to spend that kind of money any way
Simply enough,
This coinage could have been certified by the U.S. mint and should have been.
Then there would have be no problems


This Guy sounds like a Nut!!!

"risk a few years in federal prison to vindicate it."

I’m sorry but the last thing this Guy needs to be doing right now is posting on the internet.