Thread: I love Glenn...I truly want to know why some don't

It is all about definitions and word usage. This one is pretty good...


George Carlin - Religion Check out the thumbs up or down...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeSSwKff ... =1&index=1

Thanks for the information that several of you have shared. There were a few references made that I look forward to researching.

Regardless of how our nation was founded and the influences upon those men responsible for it, I hope that anti-Christian bigots never take it over. Hopefully that is something we can all agree on.

I am also a big Glenn Beck fan. I have learned a lot from him and I also like his humor. He cracks me up sometimes with some of the things he says. I will continue to watch him. I think he is great.

Originally Posted by SovereignMan

Thanks for the information that several of you have shared. There were a few references made that I look forward to researching.

Regardless of how our nation was founded and the influences upon those men responsible for it, I hope that anti-Christian bigots never take it over. Hopefully that is something we can all agree on.

Can't speak for everyone but I'm with you brother...

Bettybb wrote:

Just because some Christian writes fiction that Jefferson et al were Christians does not make them so. I have cited Jeffersons own words, starting with his belief that Christianity " is the most perverted system ever shone on man".

I don't recall saying Jefferson was a Christian, however, his own comments and actions prove he wasn't quite the anti-Christian you would have us believe and he most definitely wasn't an atheist! FYI: You don't have to be a disciple of Christ to be God fearing.

"The Christian religion, when divested of the rags in which they [the clergy] have enveloped it, and brought to the original purity and simplicity of it's benevolent institutor, is a religion of all others most friendly to liberty, science, and the freest expansion of the human mind.
-- Thomas Jefferson, to Moses Robinson, 1801, ME 10:237"

I DVR Beck every day and watch it when I can. I skip the parts that don't interest me but that is a very small part of each program - usually just the commercials.
Beck occasionally makes me cringe when he gets teary but most times, when he tears up, I do too when I really think about what he's saying.
One thing I don't like about him is that he goes just a little overboard with some topics. Sometimes he reaches just a little bit when connecting the dots, but I can usually ignore those parts and look at the bigger picture of what he's trying to say.
I find the man funny, witty, charming (can a hetero guy say that?) and would gladly pay to go see him if he came to my town.
On the Christian values issue, I would agree that these so called "Christian values" could be just good values and that many of the founders agreed and accepted them as a really good idea. I think these people were 99.5% decent, hard working, clean-living men in their own right.
Is there any argument that one of the main reasons for fighting for independence was freedom of religion? That could be taken either way, I think. Since we weren't there, all we have is the words of these people which have graced this topic already.
America is a miracle and I accept the Christian values, even though I'm no bible-banger myself.

Originally Posted by MW

Bettybb wrote:

Just because some Christian writes fiction that Jefferson et al were Christians does not make them so. I have cited Jeffersons own words, starting with his belief that Christianity " is the most perverted system ever shone on man".

I don't recall saying Jefferson was a Christian, however, his own comments and actions prove he wasn't quite the anti-Christian you would have us believe and he most definitely wasn't an atheist! FYI: You don't have to be a disciple of Christ to be God fearing.

"The Christian religion, when divested of the rags in which they [the clergy] have enveloped it, and brought to the original purity and simplicity of it's benevolent institutor, is a religion of all others most friendly to liberty, science, and the freest expansion of the human mind.
-- Thomas Jefferson, to Moses Robinson, 1801, ME 10:237"

This is heart wrenching to me...

Some times you can take one word and spend a volume explaining it...or trying but not getting the job done. But do you see the point you yourself are making?

I think often times we are all saying the same thing only differently...but not always!!! But the words of Jefferson were very clear... Allow me to explain what "I" hear in his words...

"The Christian religion, when divested of the rags in which they [the clergy] have enveloped it,..."

Main Entry: di·vest
Etymology: alteration of devest
Date: 1623
1 a : to deprive or dispossess especially of property, authority, or title b : to undress or strip especially of clothing, ornament, or equipment c : rid, free

Tho eloquent as always...these were not kind words... Jefferson hated the clergy and wanted "religion divested" of the "rags" that were of religion invention.

Religious meant a belief...

Religion was Orthodox...a dogmatic religion parametrized sect. Like a Muslim or Christian. Jefferson felt that when Christianity was "divested" of orthodoxy...it became a good thing.

"...and brought to the original purity and simplicity of it's benevolent institutor,..."

Who or what was he talking about as "institutor"? This is what Jefferson believed in...a simple one on one contact...each man had the right to pursue his "religious" faith... Religious is not to be confused with "RELIGION...!" However...religion and religious faith were both protected by the Constitution and...sadly....are viewed as synonymous today...WRONG!!!

"...is a religion of all others most friendly to liberty, science, and the freest expansion of the human mind.

To me when he said this it was a statement of supreme ordination...when a true one on one contact with God was achieved God and the human mind "expansion" happened. Religious God led the awakening of the human heart sole spirit and mind...not a "religion" invention or intervention.

This was not about law or morality...it was about the purest and simplest ordination of spirituality and the belief in God...not of man and his laws or of a religion sect or faith. Jefferson believed that man was to be led by his spirit...led by his personal "benevolent institutor".

Then law and the "rags" intervened and destroyed spirit, God and Constitutional law. And is working on the distruction of America.

Jefferson would not be happy...

Deleted by me.

Originally Posted by hardlineconstitutionalist

Originally Posted by MW

Bettybb wrote:

Just because some Christian writes fiction that Jefferson et al were Christians does not make them so. I have cited Jeffersons own words, starting with his belief that Christianity " is the most perverted system ever shone on man".

I don't recall saying Jefferson was a Christian, however, his own comments and actions prove he wasn't quite the anti-Christian you would have us believe and he most definitely wasn't an atheist! FYI: You don't have to be a disciple of Christ to be God fearing.

"The Christian religion, when divested of the rags in which they [the clergy] have enveloped it, and brought to the original purity and simplicity of it's benevolent institutor, is a religion of all others most friendly to liberty, science, and the freest expansion of the human mind.
-- Thomas Jefferson, to Moses Robinson, 1801, ME 10:237"

This is heart wrenching to me...

Some times you can take one word and spend a volume explaining it...or trying but not getting the job done. But do you see the point you yourself are making?

I think often times we are all saying the same thing only differently...but not always!!! But the words of Jefferson were very clear... Allow me to explain what "I" hear in his words...

"The Christian religion, when divested of the rags in which they [the clergy] have enveloped it,..."

Main Entry: di·vest
Etymology: alteration of devest
Date: 1623
1 a : to deprive or dispossess especially of property, authority, or title b : to undress or strip especially of clothing, ornament, or equipment c : rid, free

Tho eloquent as always...these were not kind words... Jefferson hated the clergy and wanted "religion divested" of the "rags" that were of religion invention.

Religious meant a belief...

Religion was Orthodox...a dogmatic religion parametrized sect. Like a Muslim or Christian. Jefferson felt that when Christianity was "divested" of orthodoxy...it became a good thing.

"...and brought to the original purity and simplicity of it's benevolent institutor,..."

Who or what was he talking about as "institutor"? This is what Jefferson believed in...a simple one on one contact...each man had the right to pursue his "religious" faith... Religious is not to be confused with "RELIGION...!" However...religion and religious faith were both protected by the Constitution and...sadly....are viewed as synonymous today...WRONG!!!

"...is a religion of all others most friendly to liberty, science, and the freest expansion of the human mind.

To me when he said this it was a statement of supreme ordination...when a true one on one contact with God was achieved God and the human mind "expansion" happened. Religious God led the awakening of the human heart sole spirit and mind...not a "religion" invention or intervention.

This was not about law or morality...it was about the purest and simplest ordination of spirituality and the belief in God...not of man and his laws or of a religion sect or faith. Jefferson believed that man was to be led by his spirit...led by his personal "benevolent institutor".

Then law and the "rags" intervened and destroyed spirit, God and Constitutional law. And is working on the distruction of America.

Jefferson would not be happy...

Such a GREAT post!! I can guarantee you Jefferson is rolling in his grave at the thought that this nation should be comprised of only one religion. It is obvious that many of our forefathers were against such things. Even the great tea party hero Thomas Paine was against this, but for some reason the religious REFUSE to acknowledge this. Just like religion, they pick and choose what laws of their own book to follow. If I like, I can use the same scripture against them since the Bible is full of contradictions.

ATTENTION WOMEN!! "If you see a pretty woman among your captives and would like her for a wife, then bring her home and "go in unto her." Later, if you decide you don't like her, you can simply "let her go." (Deuteronomy)

Ladies, since you are able to pick and choose, THIS is the part that I have decided to abide by. Now go in the kitchen and make me a sammich! It is law!! If you don't, then according to your law, I can "let you go!" It's in the bible, so it must be true!!

Here is a wonderful example of religion faith in "God"...who provides child girls to 50 year old men...

"As a Muslim, as I always say, I consider God's law and that of his prophet above any other law," Yerima told the BBC's Hausa language radio service. "I will not respect any law that contradicts that and whoever wants to sanction me for that is free to do that."

But the recent wedding of one of the Muslim leaders who brought Shariah law to Africa's most populous nation is under scrutiny as human rights groups say he married a 13-year-old Egyptian girl.

As authorities investigate Senator Ahmad Sani Yerima, the marriage is drawing fresh questions about the role of religion in a country of 150 million people split between Christians and Muslims.

Yerima, 49, arranged the marriage with the girl after paying her family a $100,000 dowry, according to a complaint filed by the Nigerian Human Rights Commission in April. Initially, Yerima couldn't arrange a visa for the girl to travel from Egypt to Nigeria, so he instead brought the girl through neighboring Niger, said Chidi Odinkalu, a lawyer for works for the Open Society Justice Initiative.

That leaves Yerima open to human trafficking charges, as well as possible child-sex and endangerment charges, the lawyer said.

It also isn't the first time Yerima has apparently married a child bride. The right commission alleged that he married a 15-year-old girl, only to divorce her at 17 as she nurses his child.


Ahhhh...religion faith and Muslim Gods are truly great...if you're a child molester...

When the "religious" no longer know what to do because of their "religious faith" when obvious right and wrong become PC questions of faith...it is time to question the "rags" that are left of your faith....IMHO

Remember... rape and murdering infidels are justified by this "God"... and if you are a 13yr old girl or a none Muslim...you are in moral and mortal danger...



http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100501/ap_ ... hild_bride