Thread: Missouri - TSA detains official from Ron Paul group

BigTex wrote:

So where do we draw the line? What if it makes us safer if the police have the right to search our homes to make sure terrorists, illegals and drug cartel members are not hiding? Are we going to give us that Constitution right in the name of feeling better? We wer told by the Bush administration that it was ok for the government to listen to our phone conversations in the name of making us safe from terrorists. So we give up this right too? I am not willing to give up any of my Constitutional rights for any reason.

See, this is where we differ. I don't consider what the TSA did to Bierfeldt as infringing upon his rights as guranteed under the U.S. Constitution. They DID NOT perform an illegal search and seizure. The TSA were authorized by law to perform the search. Furthermore, it doesn't sound like they siezed the money. All the TSA did was make an attempt to find out where the money came from. Personally, I'm not convinced that the TSA did anything other than what the law and designed safety precautions demand.

Additionally, I think the assumption that the TSA focused on Mr. Bierfeldt simply because he had Ron Paul literature and stickers is a red herring that has no place in this argument. Unless someone is a mind-reader, they have no idea what the TSA was thinking in this regard.

Steph wrote:

We can't have it both ways. We laud TSA when they question and catch the bad guys, but we immediately start calling for law suits when they hold up "one of ours." We can't pick and choose what we'd like to follow. That's what we accuse the illegal aliens of doing.

Look, we're in difficult times and I don't care that this Steve B person was aware of the Missouri report. All he had to do was answer the questions. How many of us have said that we wouldn't mind the extra scrutiny if it meant we were safer? And yet when it happens people say it's wrong. WTH? The tone changed when Steve B refused to cooperate. The choice was his and the situation was his doing.

Good post, Steph.

My bad for not clarifying what I meant.

I'm not saying the TSA shouldn't do their job, what I'm objecting to is their behaviour.

Until immigration laws are enforced, why shouldn't Americans have the courtesy of choosing what laws to follow too?

As illegal aliens have no problem suing at the drop of a hat, Americans should also be able to do the same. Maybe then our government can see how out of hand this issue has gotten and enforce existing laws.

miguelina wrote:

As illegal aliens have no problem suing at the drop of a hat, Americans should also be able to do the same. Maybe then our government can see how out of hand this issue has gotten and enforce existing laws.

I understand your point, however, I don't see what grounds Mr. Bierfeldt would have for pushing a lawsuit.

By the way, illegals definitely haven't cornered the market on frivolous lawsuits - American citizens file them all the time. The problem is, we have too damn many ambulance chasers in this country and the laws schools continue to push them out in droves.

I'm not saying the TSA shouldn't do their job, what I'm objecting to is their behaviour.

While it certainly seems that one TSA agent had some issues, Biefeldt's behavior wasn't exactly above board either. Becoming part of the problem helps no one and stirs up a load of crap that serves no purpose.

Until immigration laws are enforced, why shouldn't Americans have the courtesy of choosing what laws to follow too?

As illegal aliens have no problem suing at the drop of a hat, Americans should also be able to do the same. Maybe then our government can see how out of hand this issue has gotten and enforce existing laws.

So it's okay to make more trouble for our already convoluted system and become part of the problem instead of the solution? And you think behaving like that is going to get the government to stand up and start doing the right thing? Wow. Talk about hypocrisy. I can't tell you how many times I've seen a board member state that if only the laws on the books were enforced we wouldn't be in the mess we are. And you advocate being just like the illegals we want gone?

Please, please explain to me how becoming part of the problem is going to solve things.

Moving to other topic's..

Originally Posted by StephR

We can't have it both ways. We laud TSA when they question and catch the bad guys, but we immediately start calling for law suits when they hold up "one of ours." We can't pick and choose what we'd like to follow. That's what we accuse the illegal aliens of doing.

Look, we're in difficult times and I don't care that this Steve B person was aware of the Missouri report. All he had to do was answer the questions. How many of us have said that we wouldn't mind the extra scrutiny if it meant we were safer? And yet when it happens people say it's wrong. WTH? The tone changed when Steve B refused to cooperate. The choice was his and the situation was his doing.

First of all the TSA is too stupid to to catch bad guys. I come from an airline background, and I was at work at DFW airport on 9/11. The reason I left the airlines is the fact that I no longer feel safe. It's because we aren't safe. The whole TSA thing, and having to wait in ungodly long security lines is just a show for the public to give them the false perception that they are safe. I worked in operations. I controlled what went onto the aircraft and where on the aircraft it went for weight and balance purposes. Up to 60% of a larger passenger aircraft is cargo. American Airlines had a cargo station at the terminal, where you could drop off a box and have it shipped. The problem is, NONE of those packages are scanned. You could easily put a bomb in a box, and have it go undetected onto an airplane. The government has done NOTHING to make us safer.

Originally Posted by MW

BigTex wrote:

So where do we draw the line? What if it makes us safer if the police have the right to search our homes to make sure terrorists, illegals and drug cartel members are not hiding? Are we going to give us that Constitution right in the name of feeling better? We wer told by the Bush administration that it was ok for the government to listen to our phone conversations in the name of making us safe from terrorists. So we give up this right too? I am not willing to give up any of my Constitutional rights for any reason.

See, this is where we differ. I don't consider what the TSA did to Bierfeldt as infringing upon his rights as guranteed under the U.S. Constitution. They DID NOT perform an illegal search and seizure. The TSA were authorized by law to perform the search. Furthermore, it doesn't sound like they siezed the money. All the TSA did was make an attempt to find out where the money came from. Personally, I'm not convinced that the TSA did anything other than what the law and designed safety precautions demand.

Additionally, I think the assumption that the TSA focused on Mr. Bierfeldt simply because he had Ron Paul literature and stickers is a red herring that has no place in this argument. Unless someone is a mind-reader, they have no idea what the TSA was thinking in this regard.

Steph wrote:

[quote:3p7dzgkx]We can't have it both ways. We laud TSA when they question and catch the bad guys, but we immediately start calling for law suits when they hold up "one of ours." We can't pick and choose what we'd like to follow. That's what we accuse the illegal aliens of doing.

Look, we're in difficult times and I don't care that this Steve B person was aware of the Missouri report. All he had to do was answer the questions. How many of us have said that we wouldn't mind the extra scrutiny if it meant we were safer? And yet when it happens people say it's wrong. WTH? The tone changed when Steve B refused to cooperate. The choice was his and the situation was his doing.

Good post, Steph. [/quote:3p7dzgkx]

OMG. What was this guy attempting to do by getting on this flight? Take down the plane by swatting the pilot with a whole wad of cash?? It was cash for pete's sake. Not an machete. Not a machine gun. It was just MONEY. Is that on the list of restricted items that we can no longer take on the plane now too?? Sorry if I'm coming on a bit strong MW, but this kind of thinking just drives me crazy!

The kid had the guts to do the right thing and did not succum to bullying. He was being composed and respectful and mearly asked if he was required by law to answer the questions. Why couldn't the TSA act in kind? If he's going to promote and educate people about our Liberties, he's got to stand up and defend them as well. He's not only talking the talk but also walking the walk. Not many people today (myself included) have the guts to do that because we don't like confrontation or fear being tased for rightfully asking legitimate questions. Instead of putting him down we should thank him and feel proud about the fact that he "gets it" - unlike some of the other people his age who are blinded by Obama -mania.

A few years back I would have had the same mindset as some people on this forum. What would have been the big deal in just answering the questions if you have nothing to hide? But that's not the point. The point is that Americans don't know their constitutional rights and have basically surrended them out of fear and ignorance. And each time that happens the more those in power see what they can get away with until we're completely under their control. Don't you see what's happening? They aren't going after the illegals - they are tightening the screws more on us!

Law enforcement needs to be better trained to know the laws they are enforcing as well as we lay people need to know what our constitutional rights are. Do you really understand what you're saying MW? That if you are carrying a large amount of cash you should be stopped and questioned??

"The only reason why government keeps pushing the limits is because people like yourself, are so willing to give up your rights for a little security. We should not stand for the constant dismantling of our freedoms and rights because the government says there is scary stuff out there!

"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." - Benjamin Franklin