Thread: Obama Should Have Chosen Words More Carefully

Ok,maybe I am wrong here and I would be the first to admit it if I am, but it sounds as though you have an axe to grind "Expendable"

As I said I do not know exactly what Gates had said to the officers as even in some of the footage of the show "COPS" We do not always see or hear all of the story. Those shows as well as others are edited for viewers. So unless you actually know for sure all the details do not call the rest of us ignorant. Because although you are not saying it you are definitely projecting it through your words.

I apologize if it sounds like I'm calling anyone ignorant, and I want to thank you for going easy on me in your post. What I'm trying to get folks to see is that with the facts we do know, the officer made an unlawful arrest. Butthole citizens have the right to be just that in their own home and can say what they like, with certain exceptions of course.
That's what should upset everyone, that a person sworn to uphold the law broke it. So far noone here has addressed that...

No aplogy needed "Expendable". As I said we are on here to read over various articles and discuss them whether we all agree or disagree with them.

Gates was being disoderly. That alone is reason enough to slap the cuffs on him. The man lost his head and deserved the arrest. A conviction? Probably not...

If one is stupid enough to lose it like that on an officer of the law, then one should be prepared for the possible consequences.

Originally Posted by SicNTiredInSoCal

Gates was being disoderly. That alone is reason enough to slap the cuffs on him. The man lost his head and deserved the arrest. A conviction? Probably not...

If one is stupid enough to lose it like that on an officer of the law, then one should be prepared for the possible consequences.

You're missing the point. Gates did not break the law, but officer Crowley did. A peace officer's peace can't be violated, but a citizens can. If children are in earshot of profane language, the person doing the cussing can be arrested and charged with disorderly conduct. There's no way they'd try to prosecute an unlawful arrest, and that's why the charges were dropped. Now do you get it? The cop made sure he won the "fight" with Gates and the law be damned, plain and simple...

Originally Posted by Expendable

Originally Posted by SicNTiredInSoCal

Gates was being disoderly. That alone is reason enough to slap the cuffs on him. The man lost his head and deserved the arrest. A conviction? Probably not...

If one is stupid enough to lose it like that on an officer of the law, then one should be prepared for the possible consequences.

You're missing the point. Gates did not break the law, but officer Crowley did. A peace officer's peace can't be violated, but a citizens can. If children are in earshot of profane language, the person doing the cussing can be arrested and charged with disorderly conduct. There's no way they'd try to prosecute an unlawful arrest, and that's why the charges were dropped. Now do you get it? The cop made sure he won the "fight" with Gates and the law be damned, plain and simple...

Expendable - Maybe it WAS an improper arrest. And that's probably why the charges were dropped. They were dropped!!

YOU seem to be missing the point, that we COULD be discussing your issue, if this incident hadn't been exploited and twisted into an issue about RACE. RACE, RACE, RACE - ad nauseum. Bad and unfair things happen to people of ALL colors. I would love it if we could have a discussion about ALL citizen's rights, police misconduct, etc. But we CAN'T because we're always too busy talking about RACE, racism, this was racism, that was racism, this was racial profiling.

White people are mistreated by the police too sometimes. I've been harrassed by asshole police officers myself, who I think were on a power trip. And I'm white. These things happen to white people too.

You give examples of police misconduct towards all sorts of people that you happen to see on video - men, woman, black, white. Thats the WHOLE point!!! That IS the point. It happens to people of all colors, genders, etc.

You seem to think you know exactly what was in Officer Crowley's head, as well as the other officers who were there.

Expendable wrote:

Why is it so hard to accept that the officer arrested Gates because he wanted to win the "fight". I guarantee you the other officers there regret the fact he arrested Gates, and that's because they know the arrest was unlawful.

Were you there? Have you talked to Crowley yourself? To the other officers?

The day we can have a discussion about your issue of unfair arrest of a citizen, and a violation of that citizen's rights, because they are a citizen, and there doesn't have to be a discussion about RACE RACE RACE, I will be the first one there!!!!!!

But until then, I think you are the one who just isn't getting the point. And I feel free to tell you that, only because you obviously feel free to tell others how they are missing the point, repeatedly, if they don't agree with you.

Well, we can agree to disagree on this.

One more thing tho, whose to say that the cop was going off how the guy was acting, like maybe he had something to hide because of how badly the man just flipped out.

A few years ago, the mexicans in a nearby town were all up in arms because cops were shooting at mexicans because they ran away. Obviously if you are running away you have something to hide. So, should the cops have just let them go? Gates could not run away, and he had no reason to, but just going off of how he acted - I would not blame the cops for cuffing him. Gates had control over the situation and should have exercised it. If he had, we would not be having this discussion right now.

Please do not confuse an arrest with being charged with a crime. They're different, and it's completely possible to arrest someone who is combative, uncooperative, and may present a danger not only to himself, but the community, without actually being charged with a crime.

But I was not there, so I do not know how the events transpired. I'm merely suggesting it's possible to be placed under arrest for acting the way Gates( as anyone would risk acting in a similiar manner) did in this situation, and there would be nothing unlawful about it!

Generally, citizens have a duty to cooperate with police officers when asked to do so, even when in their own home. Sure, they can invoke their 5th amendment rights and refuse to answer any questions, but the cops can also arrest you as well if they have probable cause to do so.

But Gates did not do that. What he chose to do was to confront the cops in an aggressive, belligerent manner. It's quite possible officers may have feared for not only their safety, but for neighbors around him as well. Yes, even after Gates finally got around to showing the police his identification. Usually, you do not get a do over when you finally decide to start cooperating.

But I don't know, I haven't read the report and do not plan to do so.

None of us were there. We may never know if the actions of Gates were sufficent enough to create apprehension or fear in the mind of Crowley that Gates was a potential threat to himself or the public.

But officer crowley has over 25 years of law enforcement experience in dealing with such situations, that experience must be taken into consideration.

There was nothing improper about arresting Gates under the circumstances which he created for himself, if in fact the officers believed Gates to be a danger.

Expendable writes:

A traffic stop in public is different than a person cussing cops in his own home, and is no threat to the public. Just like Gates should not have talked the way he did, the cops should not have made an unlawful arrest. Why is that so hard for some folks to see...

That's an interesting position you take. Did Gates live on some plot of land, an isolated dwelling if you will, in which he had no neighbors in the immediate vicinity? The cops probably told Gates they were responding to a call of a break in. How are they to know that once they leave, Gates may not go and confront the neighbor who made the call, or try to ascertain who made the call?

His behavior may have suggested as much.

Cops are not psychologists. If they had reason to believe the behavior of Gates presented a danger to not only himself, but his neighbors, then they had every right to take him into custody to ensure he was not a danger to those around him.

The only one who seemingly had an issue with race on that day was Professor Gates.