Thread: Trump strikes deal with Colorado Senator on legalized marijuana

The number of arrests for marijuana has dropped because of state legalization, but it's still over 50%. So if there are 1,500,000 drug arrests according to the FBI, approximately 750,000 of those were for marijuana charges including users and sale/manufacture. Based on the over 80% split between users and sale/manufacture, then 80% of the 750,000 or almost 600,000 a year were for arrests of marijuana possession, NOT sale/manufacture.

Originally Posted by Judy

1. Total Annual Drug Arrests In The United States By Offense Type

2016: The FBI estimated that there were 1,572,579 arrests for drug law violations in the US in 2016. The FBI, for the first time in many years, did not provide a breakdown of that figure by offense type.

In an analysis of a subset of the UCR's arrest data, police agencies in the US covering an estimated 2016 population of 250,017,636 people reported a total of 1,186,810 arrests for drug law violations, of which 84.7% (1,004,762) were for possession of a controlled substance. Only 15.3% (182,04 were for the sale or manufacturing of a drug.

2015: Of the 1,488,707 arrests for drug law violations in the US in 2015, 83.9% (1,249,025) were for possession of a controlled substance. Only 16.1% (239,682) were for the sale or manufacturing of a drug.

2014: Of the 1,561,231 arrests for drug law violations in the US in 2014, 83.1% (1,297,384) were for possession of a controlled substance. Only 16.9% (263,84 were for the sale or manufacturing of a drug.

2013: Of the 1,501,043 arrests for drug law violations in the US in 2013, 82.3% (1,235,35 were for possession of a controlled substance. Only 17.7% (265,685) were for the sale or manufacturing of a drug.

2012: Of the 1,552,432 arrests for drug law violations in the US in 2012, 82.2% (1,276,099) were for possession of a controlled substance. Only 17.8% (276,333) were for the sale or manufacturing of a drug.

2011: Of the 1,531,251 arrests for drug law violations in the US in 2011, 81.8% (1,252,563) were for possession of a controlled substance. Only 18.2% (278,687) were for the sale or manufacturing of a drug.

2010: Of the 1,638,846 arrests for drug law violations in the US in 2010, 81.9% (1,342,215) were for possession of a controlled substance. Only 18.1% (296,631) were for the sale or manufacture of a drug.

2007: Of the 1,841,182 arrests for drug law violations in the US in 2007, 82.5% (1,518,975) were for possession of a controlled substance. Only 17.5% (322,207) were for the sale or manufacture of a drug.

http://www.drugwarfacts.org/chapter/crime_arrests

Marijuana and Who's in Prison

• A survey by the Bureau of Justice Statistics showed that 0.7% of all state inmates were behind bars for marijuana possession only (with many of them pleading down from more serious crimes).i
• 
  
• In total, one tenth of one percent (0.1 percent) of all state prisoners were marijuana-possession offenders with no prior sentences.ii
• 
  
• Other independent research has shown that the risk of arrest for each “joint,” or marijuana cigarette, smoked is about 1 arrest for every 12,000 joints.iii
• 
  
• There are very few people in state or federal prison for marijuana-related crimes. It is useful to look at all drug offenses for context. Among sentenced prisoners under state jurisdiction in 2008, 18% were sentenced for drug offenses.iv
• 
  
• For federal prisoners, who represent 13% of the total prison population, about half (51%) had a drug offense as the most serious offense in 2009.v
• 
  
• And federal data shows that the vast majority (99.8%) of federal prisoners sentenced for drug offenses were incarcerated for drug trafficking.vi
• ​
• Carnegie Mellon’s Jonathan Caulkins, formerly the co-director of Rand’s drug policy research center, found that more than 85% of people in prison for all drug-law violations were clearly involved in drug distribution, and that the records of most of the remaining prisoners had at least some suggestion of distribution involvement.
• ​
• Only about half a percent of the total prison population was there for marijuana possession, he found. He noted that this figure was consistent with other mainstream estimates but not with estimates from the Marijuana Policy Project (a legalization interest group), which, according to Caulkins, “naively … assumes that all inmates convicted of possession were not involved in trafficking.” Caulkins concluded “an implication of the new figure is that marijuana decriminalization would have almost no impact on prison populations.”

https://learnaboutsam.org/the-issues...hos-in-prison/

Originally Posted by jtdc

But that doesn't show that 80% of those in prison on drug charges are casual users.

I'd more accuse you of telling stories that aren't true. Your claim is that 80% of those in prison on drug charges are users. But the evidence you provided doesn't address that. It is a diversion.

I never said 80% of those in prison are users. I never said anything about "casual users" at all. I said there are more users in prison than sellers based on the arrests. I don't know how many are in prison for marijuana possession. I know there's 800,000 in prison for non-violent drug charges and 600,000 of them are black which is 75% when blacks are only 12.7% of our population and use rates among blacks and whites are the same.

The posts speak for themselves, and everyone here can read, quite well actually.

Did you find your Point 2, you were looking for?

Originally Posted by Judy

So if there are 1,500,000 drug arrests according to the FBI, approximately 750,000 of those were for marijuana charges including users and sale/manufacture. Based on the over 80% split between users and sale/manufacture, then 80% of the 750,000 or almost 600,000 a year were for arrests of marijuana possession, NOT sale/manufacture.

Again, "arrests"! How many of those arrests resulted in jail time versus how many resulted in fines, rehabilitation, or even probation? I'm sure the majority of pushers got time and not probation.

So again, it is a misleading statistic.

Originally Posted by Judy

I never said 80% of those in prison are users. I never said anything about "casual users" at all. I said there are more users in prison than sellers based on the arrests. I don't know how many are in prison for marijuana possession. I know there's 800,000 in prison for non-violent drug charges and 600,000 of them are black which is 75% when blacks are only 12.7% of our population and use rates among blacks and whites are the same.

The posts speak for themselves, and everyone here can read, quite well actually.

Did you find your Point 2, you were looking for?

This following should clear up any confusion you may be having on this topic:

Marijuana and Who's in Prison

• A survey by the Bureau of Justice Statistics showed that 0.7% of all state inmates were behind bars for marijuana possession only (with many of them pleading down from more serious crimes).i
• 
  
• In total, one tenth of one percent (0.1 percent) of all state prisoners were marijuana-possession offenders with no prior sentences.ii
• 
  
• Other independent research has shown that the risk of arrest for each “joint,” or marijuana cigarette, smoked is about 1 arrest for every 12,000 joints.iii
• 
  
• There are very few people in state or federal prison for marijuana-related crimes. It is useful to look at all drug offenses for context. Among sentenced prisoners under state jurisdiction in 2008, 18% were sentenced for drug offenses.iv
• 
  
• For federal prisoners, who represent 13% of the total prison population, about half (51%) had a drug offense as the most serious offense in 2009.v
• 
  
• And federal data shows that the vast majority (99.8%) of federal prisoners sentenced for drug offenses were incarcerated for drug trafficking.vi
• ​
• Carnegie Mellon’s Jonathan Caulkins, formerly the co-director of Rand’s drug policy research center, found that more than 85% of people in prison for all drug-law violations were clearly involved in drug distribution, and that the records of most of the remaining prisoners had at least some suggestion of distribution involvement.
• ​
• Only about half a percent of the total prison population was there for marijuana possession, he found. He noted that this figure was consistent with other mainstream estimates but not with estimates from the Marijuana Policy Project (a legalization interest group), which, according to Caulkins, “naively … assumes that all inmates convicted of possession were not involved in trafficking.” Caulkins concluded “an implication of the new figure is that marijuana decriminalization would have almost no impact on prison populations.”

https://learnaboutsam.org/the-issues...hos-in-prison/

Originally Posted by MW

Marijuana and Who's in Prison

• A survey by the Bureau of Justice Statistics showed that 0.7% of all state inmates were behind bars for marijuana possession only (with many of them pleading down from more serious crimes).i
• 
  
• In total, one tenth of one percent (0.1 percent) of all state prisoners were marijuana-possession offenders with no prior sentences.ii
• 
  
• Other independent research has shown that the risk of arrest for each “joint,” or marijuana cigarette, smoked is about 1 arrest for every 12,000 joints.iii
• 
  
• There are very few people in state or federal prison for marijuana-related crimes. It is useful to look at all drug offenses for context. Among sentenced prisoners under state jurisdiction in 2008, 18% were sentenced for drug offenses.iv
• 
  
• For federal prisoners, who represent 13% of the total prison population, about half (51%) had a drug offense as the most serious offense in 2009.v
• 
  
• And federal data shows that the vast majority (99.8%) of federal prisoners sentenced for drug offenses were incarcerated for drug trafficking.vi
• ​
• Carnegie Mellon’s Jonathan Caulkins, formerly the co-director of Rand’s drug policy research center, found that more than 85% of people in prison for all drug-law violations were clearly involved in drug distribution, and that the records of most of the remaining prisoners had at least some suggestion of distribution involvement.
• ​
• Only about half a percent of the total prison population was there for marijuana possession, he found. He noted that this figure was consistent with other mainstream estimates but not with estimates from the Marijuana Policy Project (a legalization interest group), which, according to Caulkins, “naively … assumes that all inmates convicted of possession were not involved in trafficking.” Caulkins concluded “an implication of the new figure is that marijuana decriminalization would have almost no impact on prison populations.”

https://learnaboutsam.org/the-issues...hos-in-prison/

Your data is based on the federal prison system. Most drug arrests are made by state and local law enforcement, not the feds, and those local and state arrests are put in prison in local, county and state jails and prisons, not federal prisons.

Furthermore, it doesn't matter in states that have legalized because they legalize both use and sale/manufacture, so in those local, county and state jails and prisons in states that have legalized there will be no incarcerations at all for marijuana use or sale/manufacture, at least not for those patrons and suppliers of the legalized business. There may be some arrests and incarcerations associated with the illegal black market activity in those states, and that's fine.

Originally Posted by Judy

Your data is based on the federal prison system. Most drug arrests are made by state and local law enforcement, not the feds, and those local and state arrests are put in prison in local, county and state jails and prisons, not federal prisons.

Actually it addresses both federal and state. Furthermore, the previous statistical data you posted doesn't take into consideration that many more serious charges get plead down to possession.

Originally Posted by jtdc

Again, "arrests"! How many of those arrests resulted in jail time versus how many resulted in fines, rehabilitation, or even probation? I'm sure the majority of pushers got time and not probation.

So again, it is a misleading statistic.

Why don't you already know that? How can you be some hysterical advocate of a failed, racist War on Drugs and not already know the answers to your own questions?! I don't support locking up people who sell or process marijuana unless they're a foreign drug cartel and/or an illegal alien. I don't believe marijuana should be a banned Schedule 1 Drug. I support regulation of the business like any business.

Originally Posted by MW

Actually it addresses both federal and state. Furthermore, the previous statistical data you posted doesn't take into consideration that many more serious charges get plead down to possession.

The only ones relevant to the point you're trying to make about users versus sale/manufacture are federal prison statistics.

For federal prisoners, who represent 13% of the total prison population, about half (51%) had a drug offense as the most serious offense in 2009.v

And federal data shows that the vast majority (99.8%) of federal prisoners sentenced for drug offenses were incarcerated for drug trafficking.vi
​

Originally Posted by Judy

I never said 80% of those in prison are users. I never said anything about "casual users" at all. I said there are more users in prison than sellers based on the arrests.

So why tout the "80%" if that has nothing to do with your complaint about the poor druggies in prison?

Originally Posted by Judy

I don't know how many are in prison for marijuana possession.

I guess MW fixed that for you!

Originally Posted by Judy

I know there's 800,000 in prison for non-violent drug charges and 600,000 of them are black which is 75% when blacks are only 12.7% of our population and use rates among blacks and whites are the same.

Another unsubstantiated claim. How do you count users that have never been caught to see what percentage were Black versus white? That's like trying to accurately count the number of crimes never committed because of guns.

Unfortunately, there is a reputation that prejudices many against Blacks. We have incidents of Starbucks not allowing Black non-customers using their restrooms. Definitely discriminatory. But even Jessie Jackson noted his anxiety when walking down the street and feeling relieved when it wasn't a Black person approaching him. It is an earned prejudice that unfortunately hits those undeserving of it as well.

Originally Posted by Judy

Did you find your Point 2, you were looking for?

Yes, but it was meaningless. Still nothing about those in prison.