Thread: Support H.R.220 - Common Sense About Identity Theft & RE

Originally Posted by dyehard39

Originally Posted by Hylander

I feel that we've surrenderred more than enough of our Liberty, and will not surrender anymore myself. My efforts are for more restorations of our Liberty. And in no way do I think this Act will improve things, for the American People, unless slavery is the American way.

What is it that we will have to surrender that we have not already surrendered? Don't have social security number because of there religion?Who are these people? I thought everyone had to have a social security number? Even babies now.

Well dye, we learn something new every day. Would you suggest that those of us who haven't yet submitted to the Federal beast surrender in the name of the 'greater good'? I myself would be very reticent to force ANYTHING on my American brothers and sisters.

Originally Posted by dyehard39

Originally Posted by Hylander

I feel that we've surrenderred more than enough of our Liberty, and will not surrender anymore myself. My efforts are for more restorations of our Liberty. And in no way do I think this Act will improve things, for the American People, unless slavery is the American way.

What is it that we will have to surrender that we have not already surrendered? Don't have social security number because of there religion?Who are these people? I thought everyone had to have a social security number? Even babies now.

You thought wrong. I am not able to say what you may or may not have surrendered, but there is plenty that I have not surrendered and will not surrender, and one of those things is registration under a federal charagma. Another thing I will not cede is power to the federal government to register us like livestock. The government may register its property, perhaps even including you, but it had better keep its sticky fingers off of the lives of free men and women and their property.

Well Crocket, you beat to it. I couldn't have said it beter.

My question still is "What do we surrender that we have not already surrendered?" Personally, there is nothing that I could surrender that I have not already surrendered. Because I am on Medicare and draw a social security check, how would that be possible if I had not surrended my SS# and birth certificate? filed income tax? Social security number and birth certificate is all that I have surrendered. With those, they can find out everything else they want to know. All of this is about being an American. I have a birth certificate, a social security number and all that info in on my drivers license. I have to have an address in order to get those benefits, including prescription drug benefits and a lot of other benefits I otherwise would not get if that infor was not turned over.
Tell me what it is that I have to surrender, that I have not already surrenderd and what is it that I have to hide or should hide? Big Brother watching me has its benefits. And I want all that is due me.

Originally Posted by CrocketsGhost

Originally Posted by dyehard39

Originally Posted by Hylander

I feel that we've surrenderred more than enough of our Liberty, and will not surrender anymore myself. My efforts are for more restorations of our Liberty. And in no way do I think this Act will improve things, for the American People, unless slavery is the American way.

What is it that we will have to surrender that we have not already surrendered? Don't have social security number because of there religion?Who are these people? I thought everyone had to have a social security number? Even babies now.

You thought wrong. I am not able to say what you may or may not have surrendered, but there is plenty that I have not surrendered and will not surrender, and one of those things is registration under a federal charagma. Another thing I will not cede is power to the federal government to register us like livestock. The government may register its property, perhaps even including you, but it had better keep its sticky fingers off of the lives of free men and women and their property.

They already have more info about us than they do of livestocks. We are the property of the government, whether we like it or not.

Originally Posted by CrocketsGhost

How, precisely, do you claim that the Real ID will accomplish all that you say it will accomplish? What happens to actual Americans who don't have SSNs for religious or other reasons? What happens to illegals who DO HAVE SSNs? I do not see that the Real ID will separate the illegals from the legals.

Beyond all that, I wholeheartedly concur with Hylander. Even IF the Real ID was to somehow identify every illegal in the US, and even in the highly unlikely event that its doing so resulted in a decent percentage of them being deported, the price in surrendered freedom is too high.

I do not know what it will accomplish. Maybe it wll make it harder to conterfeited. But what if it does accomplish what it is intended to accomplish, isn't it worth it to know who is here? They know we are here, but what about others who do not belong here?To get a social security number, you have to produce a certified birth certificate. If an illegal have a number that was not issued by social security, maybe there will be a way to check this. Now social security will not check it see if it is a legal number or a conterfeit or belong to someone else. . What freedom is surrendered? We already have limited freedom and that is democracy in America. What do we really have to lose?

Originally Posted by dyehard39

Originally Posted by CrocketsGhost

Originally Posted by dyehard39

Originally Posted by Hylander

I feel that we've surrenderred more than enough of our Liberty, and will not surrender anymore myself. My efforts are for more restorations of our Liberty. And in no way do I think this Act will improve things, for the American People, unless slavery is the American way.

What is it that we will have to surrender that we have not already surrendered? Don't have social security number because of there religion?Who are these people? I thought everyone had to have a social security number? Even babies now.

You thought wrong. I am not able to say what you may or may not have surrendered, but there is plenty that I have not surrendered and will not surrender, and one of those things is registration under a federal charagma. Another thing I will not cede is power to the federal government to register us like livestock. The government may register its property, perhaps even including you, but it had better keep its sticky fingers off of the lives of free men and women and their property.

They already have more info about us than they do of livestocks. We are the property of the government, whether we like it or not.

YOU may be property of the government, but I most assuredly am not. I have no SSN and am not otherwise enfranchised by the federal entity. I have made necessary reservation of rights that you probably have not made. I have, where possible, secured equitable title to all my real property. Please do not project your own weaknesses and capitulations onto citizens who still stand in defense of their liberties.

Originally Posted by dyehard39

Originally Posted by CrocketsGhost

How, precisely, do you claim that the Real ID will accomplish all that you say it will accomplish? What happens to actual Americans who don't have SSNs for religious or other reasons? What happens to illegals who DO HAVE SSNs? I do not see that the Real ID will separate the illegals from the legals.

Beyond all that, I wholeheartedly concur with Hylander. Even IF the Real ID was to somehow identify every illegal in the US, and even in the highly unlikely event that its doing so resulted in a decent percentage of them being deported, the price in surrendered freedom is too high.

I do not know what it will accomplish. Maybe it wll make it harder to conterfeited. But what if it does accomplish what it is intended to accomplish, isn't it worth it to know who is here? They know we are here, but what about others who do not belong here?To get a social security number, you have to produce a certified birth certificate. If an illegal have a number that was not issued by social security, maybe there will be a way to check this. Now social security will not check it see if it is a legal number or a conterfeit or belong to someone else. . What freedom is surrendered? We already have limited freedom and that is democracy in America. What do we really have to lose?

There are multiple problems with your premise.

For starters, you ask whether it isn't important to know who is in our country. You still have not explained how such a thing would be accomplished by Real ID. Okay, illegal aliens won't be able to fly on commercial airlines. What does that mean as a deterrent? Most of them walk or hitchhike into the country. They may readily avail themselves of all manner of transportation within our borders.

You presume that the Real ID will stop them from accessing services like banking and governmental services, but why on Earth would you believe that? The banks have already demonstrated that they will bend laws to the breaking point to accommodate illegal aliens. The government has, in many cases, already made numerous exceptions to accommodate illegals, such as accepting the Mexican consular ID. Why do you think that will change? Don't you think that as soon as the Real ID is put in place that civil rights groups will start crying about how it disenfranchises "minorities" and that workarounds will quickly be fashioned for the illegals? They will still be running loose in our country but WE will be saddled with even more governmental intrusion and oversight as law-abiding citizens.

And none of this takes into account that there has yet to be a document of any sort that cannot be counterfeited. Illegal aliens have a well-developed black market for counterfeit documents. That will continue to be the case.

So in answer to your question, the answer is "no," it will not be "worth it" to tread another dozen paces down the road to tyranny for a program that cannot and will not accomplish what you hope it will accomplish.

Originally Posted by CrocketsGhost

Originally Posted by dyehard39

Originally Posted by CrocketsGhost

Originally Posted by dyehard39

Originally Posted by Hylander

I feel that we've surrenderred more than enough of our Liberty, and will not surrender anymore myself. My efforts are for more restorations of our Liberty. And in no way do I think this Act will improve things, for the American People, unless slavery is the American way.

What is it that we will have to surrender that we have not already surrendered? Don't have social security number because of there religion?Who are these people? I thought everyone had to have a social security number? Even babies now.

You thought wrong. I am not able to say what you may or may not have surrendered, but there is plenty that I have not surrendered and will not surrender, and one of those things is registration under a federal charagma. Another thing I will not cede is power to the federal government to register us like livestock. The government may register its property, perhaps even including you, but it had better keep its sticky fingers off of the lives of free men and women and their property.

They already have more info about us than they do of livestocks. We are the property of the government, whether we like it or not.

[quote:t53k8kd0]
[quote:t53k8kd0]
YOU may be property of the government, but I most assuredly am not. I have no SSN and am not otherwise enfranchised by the federal entity. I have made necessary reservation of rights that you probably have not made. I have, where possible, secured equitable title to all my real property. Please do not project your own weaknesses and capitulations onto citizens who still stand in defense of their liberties.

[/quote:t53k8kd0][/quote:t53k8kd0]


I do not feel weak at all and I am not trying to profect, what you assume to be, weakness onto citizens. I am only trying to understand what I have to surrender that I have not already surrendered. I have not lost liberties. What is it that I can do without a SS number? Why do you not have a social security number? Do you pay taxes? Are you a US citizen? Do you drive a car? A social security number is an asset for me and not a liability. Enlighten me.I honesty do not understand. So please do not attack me are take the fact that I do have one as a weakness. I am trying to understand for my own understanding why some people are against the Real ID act.
Can we discuss this without personal attacks. If not, I am through with this post because it will be closed down if we personal attack each other. Do not take anything I say personally. Again, I am trying to understand.

An SSN is a federal franchise number. It subjects you to an admiralty jurisdiction that does not recognize your rights. It presumes your being a party to the "common debt" identified within the UCC, making you party to a massive bankruptcy and therefore possessing rights to no property that the "tax court" (a bankruptcy resolution forum) does not allow you to retain. The SSN is a federal charagma, which is a registration of chattel. The "mark" warned against in John's Revelation is in fact a mistranslation of charagma. In exchange for your acceptance of the federal charagma, you receive paltry benefits that don't come close to offsetting the liabilities you incur.

In short, there is nothing good about the SSN (including the pathetic excuse for a retirement plan that is the ostensible purpose for its existence), but there is plenty that is bad about trying to force conscientious objectors to take it.