Thread: Support H.R.220 - Common Sense About Identity Theft & RE

Critics of the plan say it is too expensive, an invasion of privacy, and won't actually make the country safer.

Not to mention it is a violation of the 1st, 4th and tenth amendments. States who do comply will be open to lots of lawsuits and I plan to join in on this. Not only that, I think there will be lawmakers in the states who will be personally sued for violating civil liberties if they comply with the real id.

This discussion is truly amazing. If you think the Real ID act is invasion of privacy, I got news for ya! You lost that privacy years ago with the national ID card called Social Security and the creation of the IRS. If you do not think the Government can’t track you if it chooses your nuts. I see no previsions of Governmental reporting in the Real ID act that are greater than what the IRS. Example, when applying Real ID you must prove that you are a US citizen and show proof of residency. So, what is the difference between Social Security, IRS and Real ID.? The IRS and Social Security require an annual reporting on where you live and how much you make and where you spend it (ie. Taxes). With the Real ID act you must prove you are a U.S. citizen and where you live every 5 years. The Government already has this information on an annual basis from the IRS and therefore Real ID act does not invade your so called privacy, because it already has. If you are concerned about the invasion of privacy and constitutional and natural rights, one should consider the tracking of finances as the most fundamental invasion of constitutional and natural rights.
You should only be concerned about Real ID act when new legislation is created in the form of reporting its’ use/uses to the Federal or State Government. I see no provisions in the current legislation of the Real ID act that requires reporting uses of the Real ID. Is it a slippery slope? It maybe, but so was Social Security and its many uses today, banking medical ect... With the Real ID there will be no extra reporting, no chip to tract where you are, because the government already has all it needs to tract you with SS and IRS. In fact all it really does is prevent you having a false ID. Thus, you can’t hide from the IRS using a false ID or be an illegal alien.

States urged to comply with ID rule
Updated 1h 17m ago
By Thomas Frank, USA TODAY
WASHINGTON — Millions of residents of three states will soon face tougher and longer screening at airport checkpoints if their governors defy a federal law requiring new, more-secure driver's licenses.
Maine, New Hampshire and South Carolina have until March 31 to say whether they plan to comply with the law, which they say is costly and will inconvenience residents by forcing them to get new licenses.

If the states don't comply, the Homeland Security Department will bar travelers from using those state's licenses and ID cards to board airplanes starting May 11.

"We are not bluffing," department spokeswoman Amy Kudwa said.

Some fear massive confusion and delays at the 15 airports in the three states. Passengers showing unacceptable licenses will be pulled aside for additional screening, possibly including pat-downs.

"It would create havoc," said Harrison Rearden of the Columbia Metropolitan Airport board in South Carolina's capital.

The Homeland Security Department warns on its website that passengers with unacceptable licenses "may experience delays" at checkpoints. Travelers with passports or military IDs will avoid the extra screening. Thirty percent of Americans have passports, the State Department says.

Homeland Security officials are in discussions with governors of the three states, Kudwa said. Each of the states enacted a law last year barring it from complying with the 2005 federal Real ID Act. That law set a May 11 deadline for states to issue tamper-resistant licenses that require proof of citizenship and address. The department pushed back the deadline and for now requires states only to seek an extension by March 31.

Maine Gov. John Baldacci has received thousands of e-mails urging him to defy the law, spokesman David Farmer said. But a Feb. 29 letter from Sen. Susan Collins, R-Maine, warns that not seeking an extension would cause residents "exponential increases in wait times for airport security screening."

"We have not requested an extension but we haven't ruled it out," Farmer said.

Joel Sawyer, a spokesman for South Carolina Gov. Mark Sanford, said the state has not sought an extension because its licenses are "already very secure."

The federal law would cost the state $66 million over five years and force residents to wait two hours in line for a new license, Sawyer said. For people who don't fly often, extra airport screening "would be far less bad than the inconvenience of having to wait two hours at a DMV," Sawyer said.

New Hampshire Gov. John Lynch sent the Homeland Security a letter Feb. 25 asking that the state's licenses "continue to be acceptable" after May 11. The letter does not seek a deadline extension. Kudwa said the department has "not officially rejected the letter" and is working with Lynch.

Late Friday, the department said it would accept Montana licenses after May 11 even though the state has not sought an extension and has not said it would comply with the law. The department said recent improvements to Montana licenses "meet the principal security features required at this time by Real ID."

http://www.usatoday.com/travel/flights/ ... nses_N.htm

Originally Posted by wwb

This discussion is truly amazing. If you think the Real ID act is invasion of privacy, I got news for ya! You lost that privacy years ago with the national ID card called Social Security and the creation of the IRS. If you do not think the Government can’t track you if it chooses your nuts. I see no previsions of Governmental reporting in the Real ID act that are greater than what the IRS. Example, when applying Real ID you must prove that you are a US citizen and show proof of residency. So, what is the difference between Social Security, IRS and Real ID.? The IRS and Social Security require an annual reporting on where you live and how much you make and where you spend it (ie. Taxes). With the Real ID act you must prove you are a U.S. citizen and where you live every 5 years. The Government already has this information on an annual basis from the IRS and therefore Real ID act does not invade your so called privacy, because it already has. If you are concerned about the invasion of privacy and constitutional and natural rights, one should consider the tracking of finances as the most fundamental invasion of constitutional and natural rights.
You should only be concerned about Real ID act when new legislation is created in the form of reporting its’ use/uses to the Federal or State Government. I see no provisions in the current legislation of the Real ID act that requires reporting uses of the Real ID. Is it a slippery slope? It maybe, but so was Social Security and its many uses today, banking medical ect... With the Real ID there will be no extra reporting, no chip to tract where you are, because the government already has all it needs to tract you with SS and IRS. In fact all it really does is prevent you having a false ID. Thus, you can’t hide from the IRS using a false ID or be an illegal alien.

Perhaps y0ou have not read the entire thread. Social Security is not Mandatory, Not everyone has to have one. You do not need one to get a job. Many reject to it for religious reasons. Forcing someone to partake in the SS is a violation of the First amendment. You are new here, feel free to go back to the start of the thread and read it until the end. The Real ID violated the 4th and tenth amendment as well.

Jp_48504,
Yea I am new here and yes SS is voluntary and so is income taxes and driver’s licenses, just try not paying your taxes or having an ID and see what happens. Life becomes quickly more difficult. But if you are like most of us and pay your taxes, have a SS# or ITIN and a driver’s license or State ID you can be tracked. My point is that we have already lost our privacy. States already have data bases and share DL license info and if you want to use a bank, credit card or go to the doctor ect.. a ID card is usually required. Many States require SS# to get a DL, thus you are already linked and have lost your privacy. So, what does the Real ID act change? Nothing, it just requires you prove you are you to prevent ID fraud.
Fourth Amendment
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
How does the real ID act violate the 4th amendment against unreasonable search and seizures? Real ID act requires a birth certificate/passport to prove you are you is certainly not unreasonable if the current sharing and matching SS# with DL data is constitutional.
Tenth Amendment
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.
The constitution give the sole right to the Federal government to regulate commerce and it could be simple argued that driving across State lines falls under that category and a standardized ID is necessary.
We're just going to have to agree to disagree on this one. But I bet ya that we agree on 90% on other issues.

LOL, we may agree on most of the issues, but I will fight against this one. I dont give an ss # number to anyone but the tax man. I dont use credit cards and I do not have a bank account.

It is possible to get along without one. DHS cannot keep their databases secure, they have been hacked 850 times in two years, Pentagon has been hacked as well. Recently the Presidential hopefuls were all up in arms becauss employees at the private corporation that controls the information of passport holders was peeked at. They should be up in arms. When the govt cannot secure our identities, when they cannot secure their own databases, they are not to be trusted with this issue.

Now, the Real ID is voluntary, but without it I cannot drive, get a job or even go into a Federal Building. I suppose I may soon not be able to pick up my mail at the Post office because it is a Federal building.

This id will not stop terrorists, they are resourceful and will find ways around this such as hacking the database and creating a new id from perhaps your information or they will jsut not use a DL when they drive around in our country. Likewise it will not stop the illegals, Banks can use the Matricula Consular Cards to allow the illegals to bank, some states are giving DL's to illegals.

You may also want to know that all of this private data will be shared with Mexico Canada, European Countries, corporations and any other country DHS deems they need to.

This ID is more than a National Id Card, it is a global ID card. It will be used as your North American Passport. Look it up, dont take my word for it.

Ariz. lawmakers balk at new driver’s licenses

By Alice Lipowicz


Opposition is building in Arizona’s Legislature to Democratic Gov. Janet Napolitano’s plan to authorize a hybrid driver’s license that also would serve as a border-crossing card and would comply with the Real ID Act.

Napolitano and Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff announced an agreement in December to create an Arizona driver’s license that will allow holders to cross the U.S. borders under the Western Hemisphere Travel Initiative. They also agreed that the new “enhanced driver’s licenseâ€

First of all: Welcome to the forum, wwb!
I can immediately see you are a clear thinking person and an asset to the primary focus of ALIPAC - reducing and finally ending illegal immigration.


jp wrote:

This id will not stop terrorists, they are resourceful and will find ways around this such as hacking the database and creating a new id from perhaps your information or they will jsut not use a DL when they drive around in our country. Likewise it will not stop the illegals, Banks can use the Matricula Consular Cards to allow the illegals to bank, some states are giving DL's to illegals.

jp, wwb, et al,
Real ID or any kind of "enhanced ID" will not stop ALL terrorists, but it will stop a great many terrorists since a great many terrorists and terrorist copycats are NOT very resourceful (remember the shoe bomber guy who wasn't smart enough to light the fuse to his shoes in the bathroom rather than in the midst of other passengers?)

Real ID or any kind of "enhanced ID" will also not stop ALL illegal aliens from living and working in OUR country, but it will make it much more difficult and inconvenient for them to remain here. Enhanced ID programs such as Voter ID and E-verify will also greatly reduce the number of illegals who attempt to vote or work in OUR country.

And sure, these programs will also annoy a small number of US citizens such as jp, but most of us will not be too concerned over that because we are more concerned with repelling the invasion of OUR country.

Glad to have you aboard, wwb! I hope we can count on your support of the SAVE Act that is being considered by Congress. Be sure to encourage your legislators to support it.
Jonathan

And sure, these programs will also annoy a small number of US citizens such as jp, but most of us will not be too concerned over that because we are more concerned with repelling the invasion of OUR country.

As if I and those opposed to the Real ID are not opposed to the Illegal Invasion of our country. Surely you jest.

That would be like saying those who support the Real ID loved Nazi Germany's tactics and their ID plan, but I wont say anything of the like. It is a violation of the rules.

No I am sure their are some uniformed people who support the Real ID, but when it is explained to them, they understand the consequences of having a National ID card.

Insulting members of this board can and will get you banned.

No insult intended, jp.

I was just saying that some consider a strong plan to repel the invasion is more important than our privacy. During wartime, some rights are somewhat curtailed in order to more efficiently fight the war. Just look at Abe Lincoln as an example of a President who curtailed rights during the Civil War.