Thread: Amnesty Thwarted yet some immigration language remains!

Originally Posted by zeezil

Young people out of school will no longer work in the industry as they used to when I was a kid.

Frankly, I don't believe this at face value. What your essentially saying is that today's generation of young people is entirely different than every generation of young people in the past. Past gererations of young people were able to obtain employment as needed, temporay-seasonal-full-time-permanent. But today's generation is entirely different? I don't buy it. it is more due to the fact that these, and many other job avenues, have been closed off to America's young people by business targeting the cheapest, most exploitable labor possible. That would be illegal aliens and legals (foreigners) they've wedged into H-2B visas. Young people are also constantly being told by business "leaders", the media, schools, etc., that there is work that they 'just don't wan't to do' so only illegal aliens, foreigners, etc. should be doing it.

Nope, sorry...just ain't buying it. It's all about cheap, exploitable labor that will work for sub-standard wages in any work environment provided by the employer.

What has happened on the Eastern Shore is that it has turned into a more resort oriented community whose kids don't want to do the heavy, smelly work involved in crabbing. Many crabbers on the Eastern Shore are saying their own children have no interest in following in their footsteps.

Eastern Shore used to be a more rural community where the kids did work in the crab factories in the summer and after school. But once the area turned into a leisure ground for DC weekends -- many of these families could no longer afford live in the area -- it got too expensive. They have moved and what replaced them has little interest in the crab industry.

This is happening a lot in rural America -- it is turning into suburbia for big city residents who price the locals out of living. Wherever this is happening you find that kids no longer want to do the sort of jobs kids used to be happy to do -- affluent families make sure they don't need to.

Originally Posted by judyweller

Originally Posted by zeezil

IN the case of the H2B workers in Maryland Crab Industy I know for a fact that they only come for about 4-5 months -- live near the area where the crabs are processed and then go back. The same people have been coming for years now and Sen. Mikulski wanted to create legislation to allow these same worker to return to employers on the Eastern Shore.

Then Mikulski should be made personally responsible and certify that there will be ZERO visa overstays.

There never has been a problem with visa overstays in the Eastern Shore Crab industry. I know it is a big problem in other parts of the country, but not on the Eastery Shore. You have the overstays in the hotel, landscape and hospitality industry. The ones on the Eastern Shores have been coming for years -- same people every year. They always go home and have no desire to live in the US -- just want to make the extra money and go back home.

Could you provide some documentation, an article, a study, some data, a source that verifies this?

Originally Posted by judyweller

Originally Posted by zeezil

[quote:1rmic0fv]Young people out of school will no longer work in the industry as they used to when I was a kid.

Frankly, I don't believe this at face value. What your essentially saying is that today's generation of young people is entirely different than every generation of young people in the past. Past gererations of young people were able to obtain employment as needed, temporay-seasonal-full-time-permanent. But today's generation is entirely different? I don't buy it. it is more due to the fact that these, and many other job avenues, have been closed off to America's young people by business targeting the cheapest, most exploitable labor possible. That would be illegal aliens and legals (foreigners) they've wedged into H-2B visas. Young people are also constantly being told by business "leaders", the media, schools, etc., that there is work that they 'just don't wan't to do' so only illegal aliens, foreigners, etc. should be doing it.

Nope, sorry...just ain't buying it. It's all about cheap, exploitable labor that will work for sub-standard wages in any work environment provided by the employer.

What has happened on the Eastern Shore is that it has turned into a more resort oriented community whose kids don't want to do the heavy, smelly work involved in crabbing. Many crabbers on the Eastern Shore are saying their own children have no interest in following in their footsteps.

Eastern Shore used to be a more rural community where the kids did work in the crab factories in the summer and after school. But once the area turned into a leisure ground for DC weekends -- many of these families could no longer afford live in the area -- it got too expensive. They have moved and what replaced them has little interest in the crab industry.

This is happening a lot in rural America -- it is turning into suburbia for big city residents who price the locals out of living. Wherever this is happening you find that kids no longer want to do the sort of jobs kids used to be happy to do -- affluent families make sure they don't need to.[/quote:1rmic0fv]
You're painting with quite a broad brush here:
1.) All the familes on the Eastern shore are affluent
2.) Parents don't want their kids to work in local industries
3.) Kids don't want to work in local industries
4.) There is no outreach by local industry to local residents
5,) The only solution to local industries is to hire foreign workers

Are you Mikulski's press agent or an immigration lawyer, perhaps?

judyweller,

Welcome to ALIPAC!!!

I was thinking about your crab shuckers because it is a seasonal job. Just because they don't stay in your area after shucking seasons, doesn't necessarily mean they went back home. They just move inland or onto another locations to do another seasonal job.

That's the problem, not going home after the "seasonal job" ends. The big lie in the bill. Bring them in as visa holder and never make them leave or make sure they leave.

Unless and until our government can insure they leave, we should be allowing additional visa programs. Since about 40% of the illegal aliens are visa overstays because the punishment is a civil immigration offense.

We need to increase the punishment for visa overstays but at the same time leave it a civil offense for many wise and good reasons.

Dixie

Originally Posted by zeezil

Originally Posted by judyweller

Originally Posted by zeezil

[quote:29ft24si]Young people out of school will no longer work in the industry as they used to when I was a kid.

Frankly, I don't believe this at face value. What your essentially saying is that today's generation of young people is entirely different than every generation of young people in the past. Past gererations of young people were able to obtain employment as needed, temporay-seasonal-full-time-permanent. But today's generation is entirely different? I don't buy it. it is more due to the fact that these, and many other job avenues, have been closed off to America's young people by business targeting the cheapest, most exploitable labor possible. That would be illegal aliens and legals (foreigners) they've wedged into H-2B visas. Young people are also constantly being told by business "leaders", the media, schools, etc., that there is work that they 'just don't wan't to do' so only illegal aliens, foreigners, etc. should be doing it.

Nope, sorry...just ain't buying it. It's all about cheap, exploitable labor that will work for sub-standard wages in any work environment provided by the employer.

What has happened on the Eastern Shore is that it has turned into a more resort oriented community whose kids don't want to do the heavy, smelly work involved in crabbing. Many crabbers on the Eastern Shore are saying their own children have no interest in following in their footsteps.

Eastern Shore used to be a more rural community where the kids did work in the crab factories in the summer and after school. But once the area turned into a leisure ground for DC weekends -- many of these families could no longer afford live in the area -- it got too expensive. They have moved and what replaced them has little interest in the crab industry.

This is happening a lot in rural America -- it is turning into suburbia for big city residents who price the locals out of living. Wherever this is happening you find that kids no longer want to do the sort of jobs kids used to be happy to do -- affluent families make sure they don't need to.

You're painting with quite a broad brush here:
1.) All the familes on the Eastern shore are affluent
2.) Parents don't want their kids to work in local industries
3.) Kids don't want to work in local industries
4.) There is no outreach by local industry to local residents
5,) The only solution to local industries is to hire foreign workers

Are you Mikulski's press agent or an immigration lawyer, perhaps?[/quote:29ft24si]

I just know a lot of this from having lived in the area and having watched it change. When you live in an area you can see the demographic changes aand the families who leave the area and be replaced by McMansions-- you see the docks what used to whole crab boats filled with motor launches and expensive yachts. It really only takes two eyes to see the changes in the country of the Eastern Shore. When I was kid a family used to go to the Eastern Shore, catch crabs and have a picnic with roasted corn from a local farmer. You don't see that any more -- it is all in the past. The new crowd roar around the Chesapeake Bay with motor speed boats etc.

As for the H2B workers -- that has been quite well documented in the local press, how they come for the crab season and then return. Most of them are fisherman in their home country. You can't sneak across the border and work in the crab industry - you have to have fishing experience. They hhave been using H2B for decades now.

It used to be a much smaller program and very few people were in it. It is really under Bush that is has mushroomed in size and scope. It started out very small and manageable but it is now out of control. As I say it now includes categories of workers never originally in the program. At its inception it was a small manageable program that brought in relatively few workers. Now all sorts of new categories have been added to the program and it had spun out of control.

The problem is that with the current non enforcement and under enforcement of our existing immigration laws, no American would believe that new visa holders entering the US would ever be required to leave!

W

The city/county/state has created a big money tax base and big government to go with it. If the community provided affordable housing, you wouldn't need to import foreign labor to shuck crab. They have created an imbalance in the community. I'll bet 30 years ago, the crab shuckers lived in the community and were not foreigners. They have been pushed out and replaced. When a McMansion goes up in your neighborhood, they raise your taxes to the point you can't afford to pay them and another McMansion rises up on your former property. And the city/county smiled and let them do it calling it community development.

Dixie

IT IS NOT OVER YET PATRIOTS, LETS STAY ON THEM!!! WE CAN DO THIS!!!! HALF A VICTORY IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH!!! HOW DARE THEY TRY TO FOOL US OVER AND OVER!!!

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Add this:

"But once the area turned into a leisure ground for DC weekends --"

To this:

You're painting with quite a broad brush here:
1.) All the familes on the Eastern shore are affluent
2.) Parents don't want their kids to work in local industries
3.) Kids don't want to work in local industries
4.) There is no outreach by local industry to local residents
5,) The only solution to local industries is to hire foreign workers

and you get:

DC has taken over and controls who the workers are. Don't need much more proof who wants the illegal immigrant workforce.

New temporary worker visa procedures to cut bureaucracy

"The Department of Labor is rewriting H2B rules to help employers find and hire immigrant workers more quickly and efficiently than current guidelines allow.
By Nicole Gaouette, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer
May 22, 2008

WASHINGTON -- With restaurants and resorts facing summer staff shortages, the Bush administration will announce federal regulations today to streamline the way foreign workers enter the country for seasonal jobs.

The Department of Labor is rewriting rules to help employers find and hire workers for temporary jobs as landscapers, waitresses and crab pickers more quickly and efficiently than current guidelines allow.

In one major change affecting industries such as construction and shipyards, the definition of "temporary" will be drastically expanded -- from the current 10 months to three years.

Adjusting the so-called H2B visa program is part of an ongoing administration effort to reconfigure immigration laws on a piecemeal basis in the absence of a comprehensive overhaul."

THIS IS A TWO PAGE ARTICLE, here's the rest:
www.latimes.com