Thread: Concerns about the Real ID Act

I have some concerns about Real ID. My main concern is something I do not see in any of your posts.... Please point it out to me if I have missed it.

Are any of you familiar with FRT Facial Recognition Technology?

It's not retinal scans or fingerprints that I'm concerned about. You know when someone wants your ret scan or fingerprints. You have to submit to being scanned.

FRT does not require you to submit to a scan. FRT is already being incorporated at 14 state DMV's including NC. My concern is that the real ID act is a way for them to require that all Americans are in the FRT biometric database.

Here is a simplified description of the system they are already setting up.

1. When your photo is taken it must be digital. Analog photos that are scanned into digitial formats are less effective than digital originals.

2. When the photo is taken, like on your passport you are asked not to smile so the software can work on your image. The software analyses 87 measurements of your facial features and then runs the data through an equation that spits a long number out on the other side.

This number is you, your face, your ID. Your ID can be checked without a card. Your ID can be checked without you being asked to provide it. Your ID is your face and the only way to discard your ID is with plastic surgery.

When you walk past a camera in an airport, trains station, government building, or any place they expand the FRT biometric system your face can be scanned again by the cameras to produce a number that is compared to the homeland security database.

This brings up some very serious questions since the average American is on camera hundreds of times per day.

This system was field tested in 99 at the super bowl, now known as Snooper Bowl. Every person that attended the event was scanned to test the system. The feds say they picked up several people with outstanding warrants but took no action.

Public outcry was pushing the technology back till after 9/11 when they started putting it up in lots of places.

Has anyone else here heard about this technology and its history? Does anyone else here have a concern about your face being your ID or your face being turned into a number that computers can read instead of human operators? I want everyone's opinions out in the open on this one folks.

How would you feel if they pass the Real ID act and then pass a Guest Worker program too and the guest workers got to have their Real ID's?

W

You are right W. That is part of the Digital Photo that will be taken. FRT will prevent you from going anywhere unoticed. Especially with all of the cameras going up everywhere.

But why should we be concerned if we have nothing to hide.

Snooper Bowl 2001
http://news.com.com/Firm+defends+%22sno ... 53884.html

How Facial Recognition technology works

http://people.howstuffworks.com/facial-recognition.htm


NC DMV installs facial recognition technology
http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/mld/my ... 806814.htm

Real ID Act
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/F?c ... QAY:e47420:

The line I'm concerned about on top of all of the digital photo requirements is this one in section D #3

(3) Subject each person applying for a driver's license or identification card to mandatory facial image capture.

The words that grab me are "Subject" to "Mandatory facial image capture"

facial, image, capture.

Take issue with me if you think Im wrong, but I believe this means facial recognition technology use. Otherwise why not just say "digital photo" ?

W

You Are right W. I dont see how having acial image capture of every American will make us safer from Illegal Immigrants. The fact is, that it wont.

Okay I'll bite. I want to preface this by saying it's good to be cautious and skeptical. That being said:

There are what, close to 400 million people in this country? Even if the gov't could even remotely keep track of every single one of us, why would they want to? How could they possibly manage that much information? I mean it seems like critics seem to think the gov't is this evil entity gawking through our windows at every minute. They don't have the man power, the funding, nor the motive to do so! We already have a fingerprint system in place, as well as a photo ID sytem in place and yet nothing ugly has happened regarding our personal rights or freedom to travel are concerned. To me, FRT is just another step in this process. I hardly feel important enough to think anybody gives a damn about me unless I am, say, planning to blow up a building or kidnap a child. To arouse that kind of attention I'd have to have already done something.

It may indeed be the most powerful tool any government has ever used to control security within the ranks of the citizenry.

Just think of the uses. Employers could use it instead of timecards at the entrances of your workplace.

Companies could use it to track your purchasing habits for marketing purposes. No more VIC cards needed.

Police can scan whole crowds as an informal line up.

The govt has already used to identify protestors so if we go to DC to protest they can capture our IDs with the FRT system too.

Perhaps eventually we could just use our face as our bank card?

They could use it to spot bad check writers.

They could use it know your credit history. That would come in handy at the cash registers. NC DMV already sells all license data to companies so the companies can know your height, weight, eye color, hair color, latest address, and date of birth. Now the companies can have your FRT number.

The christians are upset about this technology because the two main uses of biometrics associate your identity with your head and your hand. The passages that concern christians is.

"He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name. This calls for wisdom. If anyone has insight, let him calculate the number of the beast, for it is man's number. His number is 666" (Rev. 13:16-1.

"A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: 'If ANYONE worships the beast and his image and receives his mark on the forehead or on the hand, he, too, will drink of the wine of God's fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. He will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment rises for ever and ever. There is no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and his image, or for anyone who receives the mark of his name. This calls for patient endurance on the part of THE SAINTS who obey God's commandments and remain faithful to Jesus' " (Rev. 14:9-12).


A number associated with one's face and hand that could be used in commerce is not going over well in the Christian ranks.

W

so Bible verses are a legitimate argument against establishing a Real ID? Is a finger print a "mark on the hand?" Is that wrong too? Going as far back as the 80's, people working in Law Enforcement and Child Care had to be checked against a National Database to weed out the child molesters and criminals. What is wrong with that?

Originally Posted by jp_48504

You Are right W. I dont see how having acial image capture of every American will make us safer from Illegal Immigrants. The fact is, that it wont.

William and jp,

What could be better than to have a system that can recognize and identify a person immediately by use of FRT? THIS WOULD BE HUGE! WE COULD ACTUALLY IDENTIFY WHERE SOMEONE IS FROM, AND WHETHER THEY ARE HERE LEGALLY OR ILLEGALLY, IF THEY HAVE A CRIMINAL RECORD, WHATEVER, THIS IS COOL!
This is like an old James Bond movie. WOW!

BobC:

They dont need the manpower. Once your FRT number is established the software and computers can collect information on your movements. Other information can then be associated with your numberic ID. They call the idea "Total Information Awareness"

They speculate that if they collect as much electronic information as possible on you ...bank records, health records, credit records, criminal records, possibly internet use They think they can create software programs that will tell if you are possibly a terrorist.

TIA info "Total Information Awareness"

http://www.epic.org/privacy/profiling/tia/

http://www.eff.org/Privacy/TIA/

The project was being run by Admiral Poindexter (Remember Iran Contra?) Upon exposure the project was supposedly closed down and defunded due to public outrage. We cant be sure now since all further information regarding such projects have been shifted into the highest classification levels.

A few leaks set them back, but that does not mean they are down and out. Some articles are saying that they are passing the project over to non-profits and private sector to handle the databases so the govt does not take the heat for the projects.

Imagine that, a software program moving through vast amounts of data collected about you trying to tell if you meet the terrorist profile.

W

There is something in the bible. We will be marked on the hand or on our forheads. It's the mark of satan. If you follow the bible, this is what's supposed to happen.