Thread: Glenn Beck Stinks...

Originally Posted by Hylander_1314

Originally Posted by kathyet

What ever happened to separation of church and state???

Kathyet

It's still in the letter Thomas Jefferson penned to the Danbury Baptists dated January 1 1802.

Originally Posted by hardlineconstitutionalist

Originally Posted by Hylander_1314

Originally Posted by kathyet

What ever happened to separation of church and state???

Kathyet

It's still in the letter Thomas Jefferson penned to the Danbury Baptists dated January 1 1802.

It isn't in the Constitution though. It is in this letter, and the meaning takes on a whole new view if the body of the letter is included in the definition, as Thomas Jefferson's whole point with that statement is twisted completely out of context when the body of the letter is removed.

To messers. Nehemiah Dodge, Ephraim Robbins, & Stephen S. Nelson, a committee of the Danbury Baptist association in the state of Connecticut.
Gentlemen
The affectionate sentiments of esteem and approbation which you are so good as to express towards me, on behalf of the Danbury Baptist association, give me the highest satisfaction. My duties dictate a faithful and zealous pursuit of the interests of my constituents, & in proportion as they are persuaded of my fidelity to those duties, the discharge of them becomes more and more pleasing.
Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.
I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection & blessing of the common father and creator of man, and tender you for yourselves & your religious association, assurances of my high respect & esteem.
Th Jefferson
Jan. 1. 1802.

"When a Religion is good, I conceive it will support itself; and when it does not support itself, and God does not take care to support it so that its Professors are obliged to call for help of the Civil Power, it is a sign, I apprehend, of its being a bad one." - Benjamin Franklin (from a letter to Richard Price, October 9, 1780
John Adams - Second President

"Where do we find a precept in the Bible for Creeds, Confessions, Doctrines and Oaths, and whole carloads of other trumpery that we find religion encumbered with in these days?" - John Adams

"As the Government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Musselmen; and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries." - (Treaty of Tripoli, 1797 - signed by President John Adams.)
Thomas Jefferson - Third President

"Question with boldness even the existence of a god." - Thomas Jefferson (letter to Peter Carr, 10 August 1787)
"Is uniformity attainable? Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth." - Thomas Jefferson (Notes on Virginia, 1782; from George Seldes, ed., The Great Quotations, Secaucus, New Jersey: Citadel Press, 1983, p. 363.)

James Madison - Fourth President

"During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution." - James Madison (Memorial and Remonstrance against Religious Assessments, 1785.)
"The civil rights of none shall be abridged on account of religious belief or worship, nor shall any national religion be established, nor shall the full and equal rights of conscience be in any manner, or on any pretence, infringed.'' - James Madison (Original wording of the First Amendment; Annals of Congress 434 (June 8, 1789).)

Thomas Paine - Author of "Common Sense", "The American Crisis", "Rights of Man", and "The Age of Reason"; played a large role in rallying colonists to secede from Britain.

"Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and torturous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness, with which more than half the Bible is filled, it would be more consistent that we called it the word of a demon, than the word of God. It is a history of wickedness, that has served to corrupt and brutalize mankind." - Thomas Paine (The Age of Reason, 1794-1795.)

I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of... Each of those churches accuse the other of unbelief; and for my own part, I disbelieve them all."- Thomas Paine (The Age of Reason, 1794-1795.)
"As to religion, I hold it to be the indispensable duty of government to protect all conscientious protesters thereof, and I know of no other business government has to do therewith." - Thomas Paine (Common Sense, 1776.)

Read these words. Read them with an open mind. Religion, based on the history of corruption and violence has NO place in government. It's time to tax churches, since they have become a place of profit and not worship.

Thanks Darth.

It is so sad that so many have not in the past and will not now see the wisdom of those words. It is not a cause against God it is a cause against those that demonise others for profit and power.

The separation of church and state was not against God...it was against those that willed to use a God power against men and the world for power and control.


Study all the books but study them apart and separately, use the knowledge with wisdom and a good heart to find the real truth in them.

[quote=Hylander_1314]

Originally Posted by hardlineconstitutionalist

Originally Posted by "Hylander_1314":1du18t06

Originally Posted by kathyet

What ever happened to separation of church and state???

Kathyet

It's still in the letter Thomas Jefferson penned to the Danbury Baptists dated January 1 1802.

It isn't in the Constitution though. It is in this letter, and the meaning takes on a whole new view if the body of the letter is included in the definition, as Thomas Jefferson's whole point with that statement is twisted completely out of context when the body of the letter is removed.

To messers. Nehemiah Dodge, Ephraim Robbins, & Stephen S. Nelson, a committee of the Danbury Baptist association in the state of Connecticut.
Gentlemen
The affectionate sentiments of esteem and approbation which you are so good as to express towards me, on behalf of the Danbury Baptist association, give me the highest satisfaction. My duties dictate a faithful and zealous pursuit of the interests of my constituents, & in proportion as they are persuaded of my fidelity to those duties, the discharge of them becomes more and more pleasing.
Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.
I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection & blessing of the common father and creator of man, and tender you for yourselves & your religious association, assurances of my high respect & esteem.
Th Jefferson
Jan. 1. 1802.[/quote:1du18t06]

Man...could that dude write or what!!!

[quote=hardlineconstitutionalist]

Originally Posted by Hylander_1314

Originally Posted by hardlineconstitutionalist

Originally Posted by "Hylander_1314":e0brqi1u

Originally Posted by kathyet

What ever happened to separation of church and state???

Kathyet

It's still in the letter Thomas Jefferson penned to the Danbury Baptists dated January 1 1802.

It isn't in the Constitution though. It is in this letter, and the meaning takes on a whole new view if the body of the letter is included in the definition, as Thomas Jefferson's whole point with that statement is twisted completely out of context when the body of the letter is removed.

To messers. Nehemiah Dodge, Ephraim Robbins, & Stephen S. Nelson, a committee of the Danbury Baptist association in the state of Connecticut.
Gentlemen
The affectionate sentiments of esteem and approbation which you are so good as to express towards me, on behalf of the Danbury Baptist association, give me the highest satisfaction. My duties dictate a faithful and zealous pursuit of the interests of my constituents, & in proportion as they are persuaded of my fidelity to those duties, the discharge of them becomes more and more pleasing.
Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.
I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection & blessing of the common father and creator of man, and tender you for yourselves & your religious association, assurances of my high respect & esteem.
Th Jefferson
Jan. 1. 1802.

Man...could that dude write or what!!![/quote:e0brqi1u]

But what happens to the statement "a wall of separation between Church & State" if it is the only thing referenced from the entire letter? (Which is what the Supreme Court did I think in 1947 for the first time, and it hasn't changed yet. Even though for 137 years the entire letter was borne out when questions arose about it) It can and has been bent, twisted, and distorted completely out of context from it's original intent, just as the Constitution has. But if you watched the episode, as David Barton stated, Thomas Jefferson wrote over 19,000 letters, and a handful, I think it is six, where he questioned religion, and that is all that is referenced. The other 18,994 are omitted. Why? Is it to support an agenda? Look into Cultural Marxism and Antonio Gramski's the Prison Notebook, as it goes further than the Communist Manifesto in it's definition of the destruction of the church to divide the people and remove all moral values except those that the state wishes to use. And the state can lay claim to them, thereby placing itself in a position of supremacy above the people, and their morals.

The difference here in America from that of Europe, is that the state is forbidden to sanction a specific church as the only one recognised. But the Cultural Marxist would have us all belive that no one pays homage to a higher creator than the state. So if you work for the state, are you the creator? Does the state dictate morals or endow you with certain unalienable Rights? Do your Rights come from the Constitution? Are they enumerated? Or are your Rights protected by the enumerated powers (now usurped) given by We the People to a government designed origially to safeguard those rights, which as the Declaration of Independence says, "that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalieable Rights"?

So do we now have stone masons go throughout the land and remove all the religious references from the courts that are carved from living rock?

Heck the morals of the 10 Commandments were removed from public places, so should those references too be removed, as they in the minds of the marxists would cause children and adults alike to think before they acted. So if that is done, then where do the people get there moral compass from? The box of cornflakes at the breakfast table, or what the politbureau will dictate every morning as you consume that bowl of cornflakes?

I think what Glenn is trying to teach us is that our founding fathers were religous men and their principals are the back bone of this country....

Progressives have been trying to take GOD out of everything for the past 90 years...what is happening in this country is not just about PC, it is about removing "In God we trust" from our money..."Merry Christmas" the "ten Commandents" from government building etc. anything that has to do with GOD...

why? because if you do not believe in GOD or the ten commandments then you are free to do what ever you want with out a guilty concience.

Progressives denounce Christ at every turn, this way they don't have to feel guilty supporting abortion or anything else on their agenda.

I believe it is everyones right to believe however they choose but this great country was built on Christian values...this is what Glenn is trying to teach (History), this has been taken out of the school books used as tools for our childrens education.

Originally Posted by SOSADFORUS

I think what Glenn is trying to teach us is that our founding fathers were religous men and their principals are the back bone of this country....

Progressives have been trying to take GOD out of everything for the past 90 years...what is happening in this country is not just about PC, it is about removing "In God we trust" from our money..."Merry Christmas" the "ten Commandents" from government building etc. anything that has to do with GOD...

why? because if you do not believe in GOD or the ten commandments then you are free to do what ever you want with out a guilty concience.

Progressives denounce Christ at every turn, this way they don't have to feel guilty supporting abortion or anything else on their agenda.

I believe it is everyones right to believe however they choose but this great country was build on Christian values...this is what Glenn is trying to teach (History), this has been taken out of the school books used as tools for our childrens education.

Us progressives have been trying to take God out because God, as YOU see him is a mean, hateful, revengeful being, and MAN has USED that to kill people, and FORCE their beliefs through LAW on other people. Man does not need things like the Ten Commandments because it is just common sense. Of course you aren't going to kill, but Christians get to because they are forgiven anyway. Look at the divorce rate to see how sacred people think these laws are. There will never be peace until the self serving, hateful, greedy, and political religions are abolished.

Originally Posted by DarthIllegal

There will never be peace until the self serving, hateful, greedy, and political religions are abolished.

And you seriously believe that if there sudenly were no religions, the world would be peaceful? Based on human history, do you really believe that Man is peaceful by nature? I think that's rather a naive view. People would still be as self serving, hateful, greedy, and violent as they are and have always been. If there was no religion, they would just find another way to justify their misdeeds.

Religions are of and by Man. Religons are a reflection of Man and his nature. Yes, bad things have been done in the name of God and religion, but it is Man who has done them. Take a look at the original concepts of most major world religions and you'll see that they are good. Yes, they have been misunderstood and/or perverted many times by men, but religions have also done, and continue to do, much good for people the world over. Eliminating them altogether would be throwing out the baby with the bath water. Since religions are of and by Man, they are just like Man and most human beings, not all good and not all bad. It's not black and white, but grey. It would be nice if the world were that simple, but it's not.

[quote=Hylander_1314][quote=hardlineconstitutionalist]

Originally Posted by "Hylander_1314":3ptbkudu

Originally Posted by hardlineconstitutionalist

Originally Posted by "Hylander_1314":3ptbkudu

Originally Posted by kathyet

What ever happened to separation of church and state???

Kathyet

It's still in the letter Thomas Jefferson penned to the Danbury Baptists dated January 1 1802.

It isn't in the Constitution though. It is in this letter, and the meaning takes on a whole new view if the body of the letter is included in the definition, as Thomas Jefferson's whole point with that statement is twisted completely out of context when the body of the letter is removed.

To messers. Nehemiah Dodge, Ephraim Robbins, & Stephen S. Nelson, a committee of the Danbury Baptist association in the state of Connecticut.
Gentlemen
The affectionate sentiments of esteem and approbation which you are so good as to express towards me, on behalf of the Danbury Baptist association, give me the highest satisfaction. My duties dictate a faithful and zealous pursuit of the interests of my constituents, & in proportion as they are persuaded of my fidelity to those duties, the discharge of them becomes more and more pleasing.
Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.
I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection & blessing of the common father and creator of man, and tender you for yourselves & your religious association, assurances of my high respect & esteem.
Th Jefferson
Jan. 1. 1802.

Man...could that dude write or what!!![/quote:3ptbkudu]

But what happens to the statement "a wall of separation between Church & State" if it is the only thing referenced from the entire letter? (Which is what the Supreme Court did I think in 1947 for the first time, and it hasn't changed yet. Even though for 137 years the entire letter was borne out when questions arose about it) It can and has been bent, twisted, and distorted completely out of context from it's original intent, just as the Constitution has. But if you watched the episode, as David Barton stated, Thomas Jefferson wrote over 19,000 letters, and a handful, I think it is six, where he questioned religion, and that is all that is referenced. The other 18,994 are omitted. Why? Is it to support an agenda? Look into Cultural Marxism and Antonio Gramski's the Prison Notebook, as it goes further than the Communist Manifesto in it's definition of the destruction of the church to divide the people and remove all moral values except those that the state wishes to use. And the state can lay claim to them, thereby placing itself in a position of supremacy above the people, and their morals.

The difference here in America from that of Europe, is that the state is forbidden to sanction a specific church as the only one recognised. But the Cultural Marxist would have us all belive that no one pays homage to a higher creator than the state. So if you work for the state, are you the creator? Does the state dictate morals or endow you with certain unalienable Rights? Do your Rights come from the Constitution? Are they enumerated? Or are your Rights protected by the enumerated powers (now usurped) given by We the People to a government designed origially to safeguard those rights, which as the Declaration of Independence says, "that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalieable Rights"?

So do we now have stone masons go throughout the land and remove all the religious references from the courts that are carved from living rock?

Heck the morals of the 10 Commandments were removed from public places, so should those references too be removed, as they in the minds of the marxists would cause children and adults alike to think before they acted. So if that is done, then where do the people get there moral compass from? The box of cornflakes at the breakfast table, or what the politbureau will dictate every morning as you consume that bowl of cornflakes?[/quote:3ptbkudu]

I think I see your point in your PM to me. Your words are powerful but present one with much to also question and ponder. It leaves one a bit overwhelmed to respond.

But…you know me!!!! If I assume correctly you are saying that a small sentence has been extrapolated and presumption of its meaning prevails without any study or verification.

Many choose to view this presentment as one of “evilâ€