Thread: Tonight's Mitt Romney and Obama Debate

I just watched the immigration part of tonight's debate.

When Obama describes Romney on immigration it helps the Romney campaign because Obama is describing Romney as a man that will crack down on illegal immigration which is what a vast majority of American voter want.

And then Romney opens his mouth and blows it blaming Obama for not having passed Amnesty in his first term. Romney says Obama let people down by not doing what he said he would do on immigration.

Thus, Romney blames Obama for not passing Amnesty which is a contradiction to what Romney promised Americans in the primary and when he put Chris Kobach on his campaign team!

Then the whole thing melts down on stage and both these candidates look like fumbling Turkeys and leave Americans on both sides shaking their heads and understanding why America is so screwed up right now.

Romney could have kicked Obama's butt tonight by saying "Im going to enforce our existing immigration laws" but instead he tried to out Hispander and out Amnesty Obama.

W

By ABC/UNIVISION
Oct. 16, 2012

Lorraine Osorio asked the candidates about their stance on immigration. Here's the full transcript of what they said.

CROWLEY: Governor, I want to move you along. Don't -- don't go away, and we'll have plenty of time to respond. We are quite aware of the clock for both of you. But I want to bring in a different subject here.

Mr. President, I'll be right back with you.

Lorraine Osorio has a question for you about a topic we have not...

OBAMA: This is for Governor Romney?

CROWLEY: It's for Governor Romney, and we'll be right with you, Mr. President. Thanks.

ROMNEY: Is it Loraina?

QUESTION: Lorraine.

ROMNEY: Lorraine?

QUESTION: Yes, Lorraine.

ROMNEY: Lorraine.

QUESTION: How you doing?

ROMNEY: Good, thanks.

QUESTION: Mr. Romney, what do you plan on doing with immigrants without their green cards that are currently living here as productive members of society?

ROMNEY: Thank you. Lorraine? Did I get that right? Good. Thank you for your question. And let me step back and tell you what I would like to do with our immigration policy broadly and include an answer to your question.

But first of all, this is a nation of immigrants. We welcome people coming to this country as immigrants. My dad was born in Mexico of American parents; Ann's dad was born in Wales and is a first-generation American. We welcome legal immigrants into this country.

I want our legal system to work better. I want it to be streamlined. I want it to be clearer. I don't think you have to -- shouldn't have to hire a lawyer to figure out how to get into this country legally. I also think that we should give visas to people -- green cards, rather, to people who graduate with skills that we need. People around the world with accredited degrees in science and math get a green card stapled to their diploma, come to the U.S. of A. We should make sure our legal system works.

Number two, we're going to have to stop illegal immigration. There are 4 million people who are waiting in line to get here legally. Those who've come here illegally take their place. So I will not grant amnesty to those who have come here illegally.

What I will do is I'll put in place an employment verification system and make sure that employers that hire people who have come here illegally are sanctioned for doing so. I won't put in place magnets for people coming here illegally. So for instance, I would not give driver's licenses to those that have come here illegally as the president would.

The kids of those that came here illegally, those kids, I think, should have a pathway to become a permanent resident of the United States and military service, for instance, is one way they would have that kind of pathway to become a permanent resident. ROMNEY: Now when the president ran for office, he said that he'd put in place, in his first year, a piece of legislation -- he'd file a bill in his first year that would reform our -- our immigration system, protect legal immigration, stop illegal immigration. He didn't do it.

He had a Democrat House, a Democrat Senate, super majority in both Houses. Why did he fail to even promote legislation that would have provided an answer for those that want to come legally and for those that are here illegally today? What's a question I think the -- the president will have a chance to answer right now.

OBAMA: Good, I look forward to it.

Was -- Lorranna -- Lorraine -- we are a nation of immigrants. I mean we're just a few miles away from Ellis Island. We all understand what this country has become because talent from all around the world wants to come here. People are willing to take risks. People who want to build on their dreams and make sure their kids have an even bigger dreams than they have.

But we're also a nation of laws. So what I've said is we need to fix a broken immigration system and I've done everything that I can on my own and sought cooperation from Congress to make sure that we fix the system.

The first thing we did was to streamline the legal immigration system, to reduce the backlog, make it easier, simpler and cheaper for people who are waiting in line, obeying the law to make sure that they can come here and contribute to our country and that's good for our economic growth.

They'll start new businesses. They'll make things happen to create jobs here in the United States.

Number two, we do have to deal with our border so we put more border patrol on the -- any time in history and the flow of undocumented works across the border is actually lower than it's been in 40 years.

What I've also said is if we're going to go after folks who are here illegally, we should do it smartly and go after folks who are criminals, gang bangers, people who are hurting the community, not after students, not after folks who are here just because they're trying to figure out how to feed their families. And that's what we've done. And what I've also said is for young people who come here, brought here often times by their parents. Had gone to school here, pledged allegiance to the flag. Think of this as their country. Understand themselves as Americans in every way except having papers. And we should make sure that we give them a pathway to citizenship.

And that's what I've done administratively. Now, Governor Romney just said, you know he wants to help those young people too, but during the Republican primary, he said, "I will veto the DREAM Act", that would allow these young people to have access." His main strategy during the Republican primary was to say, "We're going to encourage self-deportation." Making life so miserable on folks that they'll leave. He called the Arizona law a model for the nation. Part of the Arizona law said that law enforcement officers could stop folks because they suspected maybe they looked like they might be undocumented workers and check their papers.

You know what? If my daughter or yours looks to somebody like they're not a citizen, I don't want -- I don't want to empower somebody like that. So, we can fix this system in a comprehensive way. And when Governor Romney says, the challenge is, "Well Obama didn't try." That's not true. I have sat down with Democrats and Republicans at the beginning of my term. And I said, let's fix this system. Including Senators previously who had supported it on the Republican side. But it's very hard for Republican's in Congress to support comprehensive immigration reform, if their standard bearer has said that, this is not something I'm interested in supporting.

CROWLEY: Let me get the governor in here, Mr. President. Let's speak to, if you could...

ROMNEY: Yes.

CROWLEY: ...the idea of self-deportation?

ROMNEY: No, let -- let -- let me go back and speak to the points that the president made and -- and -- and let's get them correct.

I did not say that the Arizona law was a model for the nation in that aspect. I said that the E-Verify portion of the Arizona law, which is -- which is the portion of the law which says that employers could be able to determine whether someone is here illegally or not illegally, that that was a model for the nation. That's number one.

Number two, I asked the president a question I think Hispanics and immigrants all over the nation have asked. He was asked this on Univision the other day. Why, when you said you'd filed legislation in your first year didn't you do it? And he didn't answer. He -- he doesn't answer that question. He said the standard bearer wasn't for it.

I'm glad you thought I was a standard bearer four years ago, but I wasn't.

Four years ago you said in your first year you would file legislation.

In his first year, I was just getting -- licking my wounds from having been beaten by John McCain, all right. I was not the standard bearer.

My -- my view is that this president should have honored his promise to do as he said.

Now, let me mention one other thing, and that is self-deportation says let people make their own choice. What I was saying is, we're not going to round up 12 million people, undocumented illegals, and take them out of the nation. Instead let people make their own choice. And if they -- if they find that -- that they can't get the benefits here that they want and they can't -- and they can't find the job they want, then they'll make a decision to go a place where -- where they have better opportunities.

But I'm not in favor of rounding up people and -- and -- and taking them out of this country. I am in favor, as the president has said, and I agree with him, which is that if people have committed crimes we got to get them out of this country.

ROMNEY: Let me mention something else the president said. It was a moment ago and I didn't get a chance to, when he was describing Chinese investments and so forth.

OBAMA: Candy?

Hold on a second. The...

ROMNEY: Mr. President, I'm still speaking.

(CROSSTALK)

ROMNEY: Mr. President, let me finish.

(CROSSTALK)

ROMNEY: I've gotta continue.

(CROSSTALK)

CROWLEY: Governor Romney, you can make it short. See all these people? They've been waiting for you. (inaudible) make it short (inaudible).

ROMNEY: Just going to make a point. Any investments I have over the last eight years have been managed by a blind trust. And I understand they do include investments outside the United States, including in -- in Chinese companies.

Mr. President, have you looked at your pension? Have you looked at your pension?

OBAMA: I've got to say...

ROMNEY: Mr. President, have you looked at your pension?

OBAMA: You know, I -- I don't look at my pension. It's not as big as yours so it doesn't take as long.

ROMNEY: Well, let me give you some advice.

OBAMA: I don't check it that often.

ROMNEY: Let me give you some advice. Look at your pension. You also have investments in Chinese companies. You also have investments outside the United States. You also have investments through a Cayman's trust.

(CROSSTALK)

CROWLEY: We're way off topic here, Governor Romney.

(CROSSTALK)

OBAMA: I thought we were talking about immigration.

(CROSSTALK)

OBAMA: I do want to make sure that...

CROWLEY: If I could have you sit down, Governor Romney. Thank you.

OBAMA: I do want to make sure that -- I do want to make sure that we just understand something. Governor Romney says he wasn't referring to Arizona as a model for the nation. His top adviser on immigration is the guy who designed the Arizona law, the entirety of it; not E-Verify, the whole thing. That's his policy. And it's a bad policy. And it won't help us grow.

Look, when we think about immigration, we have to understand there are folks all around the world who still see America as the land of promise. And they provide us energy and they provide us innovation and they start companies like Intel and Google. And we want to encourage that.

Now, we've got to make sure that we do it in a smart way and a comprehensive way, and we make the legal system better. But when we make this into a divisive political issue, and when we don't have bipartisan support -- I can deliver, Governor, a whole bunch of Democrats to get comprehensive immigration reform done, and we can't...

ROMNEY: I'll get it done. I'll get it done. First year...

OBAMA: ... we can't -- we have not seen Republicans serious about this issue at all. And it's time for them to get serious on it.

Transcript: What Obama and Romney Said about Immigration During the Second Presidential Debate - ABC News

Originally Posted by ALIPAC

I just watched the immigration part of tonight's debate.

When Obama describes Romney on immigration it helps the Romney campaign because Obama is describing Romney as a man that will crack down on illegal immigration which is what a vast majority of American voter want.

And then Romney opens his mouth and blows it blaming Obama for not having passed Amnesty in his first term. Romney says Obama let people down by not doing what he said he would do on immigration.

Thus, Romney blames Obama for not passing Amnesty which is a contradiction to what Romney promised Americans in the primary and when he put Chris Kobach on his campaign team!

Then the whole thing melts down on stage and both these candidates look like fumbling Turkeys and leave Americans on both sides shaking their heads and understanding why America is so screwed up right now.

Romney could have kicked Obama's butt tonight by saying "Im going to enforce our existing immigration laws" but instead he tried to out Hispander and out Amnesty Obama.

W

With all due respect, I did not hear Romney blame Obama for not passing amnesty. What I heard Romney say was, Obama promised to pass an immigration policy in his first year, which he didn't. Actually the only time I heard Romney speak of amnesty was when he said he will not give amnesty to illegal immigrants. I see this as Romney making a point of the issue that Obama is not a man of his word and didn't keep his first promise, so what makes the American public think he can be trusted to keep any immigration promises in the future. While Romney may not be great on the issue of illegal immigration, he clearly established that he is better than Obama is. Right or wrong, that is the perception I got from the debate discussions on immigration.

From above.

The kids of those that came here illegally, those kids, I think, should have a pathway to become a permanent resident of the United States and military service, for instance, is one way they would have that kind of pathway to become a permanent resident. ROMNEY: Now when the president ran for office, he said that he'd put in place, in his first year, a piece of legislation -- he'd file a bill in his first year that would reform our -- our immigration system, protect legal immigration, stop illegal immigration. He didn't do it.

Originally Posted by MW

.....Obama promised to pass an immigration policy in his first year....

Obama wants to pass Comprehensive Immigration Reform Amnesty for most illegal aliens. You should know that and it puzzles me why you act like you don't. Do you need me to post a long list of links for you to refresh your memory on what Obama promised to do on immigration?

If Obama was pushing his Immigration promise right now do you think anyone here would be for it?

Come on MW. I know you want to cheer lead for Romney, but don't act like you suddenly dont know what Obama's plans for illegal immigrants are.

W

Romney says "The kids of those that came here illegally, those kids, I think, should have a pathway to become a permanent resident of the United States and military service, for instance, is one way they would have that kind of pathway to become a permanent resident. "

That's the Dream Act Amnesty folks. Slightly different flavor but same concept and same group of illegals targeted for amnesty except instead of college displacing American students, Romney and Rubio want them displacing American soldiers and being taught advanced US military tacticts and weaponry.

Do you think you will be able to tell them no after the illegal youth are weaponized and militarized? Do you think you will be forcing any of their parents out after the illegals have completed basic training with US guns and ammo in their hands?

Hell no!

And so they stay, their parents stay, their relatives stay, the eventually become legal voters and ALL OF YOU AND THE MILLIONS OF AMERICANS LIKE US ARE FINISHED.

Game over. That's the plan and Romney is just laying out a different flavor of the plan and any people on our side pretending that's no what is happening needs to get out of the way of those of us that plan to continue fighting it.

W

Dreamers don't seem to have the same take on Romney and immigration.

Today, 12:06 AM

Senior Member
Joined in Aug 2011
2,018 posts


Smooth





Indeed, Obama knocked Romney out cold. Romney even had to change the subject to Obama's pension.

So, Romney will pass immigration reform; however, the bill will not include any pathway to citizenship for non-DREAMERS. Romney was very clear about this. Obama has to win.





#3
Today, 12:17 AM

Senior Member
Joined in Aug 2012
174 posts


tf2legend





Romney's immigration plan is ONLY enforcement. His plan is to make life so miserable and unbearable for us that we would have no other choice but to leave. He's against the Dream Act, he's against CIR, he's against any form of amnesty period. His military plan to gain a pathway to citizenship doesn't stand a chance in congress and will never be passed. Mitt Romney showed his true side tonight and if he wins we are all screwed.

I know, Obama and the Dreamers make Mitt Romney sound better to the American public than Mitt does when he starts talking about putting illegal aliens in our military.

The Romney Rubio strategy appears to be to make people believe they will lift the laws that says illegals must be deported but not give them citizenship.

Then later the courts will weigh in on that and give them citizenship once the block of existing law has been removed.

Tonight I realized there is great danger in Mitt Romney and that danger is so many Conservatives are so desperate to get rid of Obama that many of them may go along with Romney on accommodating illegal aliens because they feel like they can't oppose him on that if they want Obama out.

In effect, Mitt Romney may be more successful passing amnesty for illegals than Obama under certain these circumstances.

W

I could be wrong, but I predict the polls will not be in Romney's favor tomorrow. I think he got cornered as a flip flopper a lot tonight on immigration and gun rights and other topics. Perception of Romney as pretending to be conservative as opposed to being a real conservative hurts his campaign.

We will see in the next 48 hours, but I think those immigration answers made him look shifty to a lot of people.

W

Originally Posted by ALIPAC

Obama wants to pass Comprehensive Immigration Reform Amnesty for most illegal aliens. You should know that and it puzzles me why you act like you don't. Do you need me to post a long list of links for you to refresh your memory on what Obama promised to do on immigration?If Obama was pushing his Immigration promise right now do you think anyone here would be for it?Come on MW. I know you want to cheer lead for Romney, but don't act like you suddenly dont know what Obama's plans for illegal immigrants are.W

Of course I know Obama wants amnesty for most illegal aliens. You misunderstood my point. What I was attempting to say was, Romney did not attack Obama for not passing amnesty, he attacked him for not keeping his word on dealing with illegal immigration. It was you that said Romney attacked him for not passing amnesty. I read your comment to suggest that Romney supports amnesty just like Obama does. If I'm wrong on that count, I apologize.

Perhaps Newmexican did a better job of explaining my point:

From above.

The kids of those that came here illegally, those kids, I think, should have a pathway to become a permanent resident of the United States and military service, for instance, is one way they would have that kind of pathway to become a permanent resident. ROMNEY: Now when the president ran for office, he said that he'd put in place, in his first year, a piece of legislation -- he'd file a bill in his first year that would reform our -- our immigration system, protect legal immigration, stop illegal immigration. He didn't do it.

As for knowing Obama's plans and intentions, I'd say I'm just as knowledgeable on the topic as anyone. My goal is to get Obama out of the White House. I'd much rather be fighting Romney on the issue than I would Obama, especially since Romney already supports many of the same things we do.