Thread: What We Can and Cannot Do - It's the Law

Alipac website is full of messages demanding federal forces arrest illegals as they cross the border.

Generally speaking - With strict limitations, you can have federal armed forces in support of the border patrol where such DoD assets are not in any contact with the lawbreaker forces coming across the border. Easy to understand examples are use of federal forces to perform intelligence gathering, resupply for border patrol, airborne surveillence.

You cannot have federal forces come in any contact with the outlaws, period.

To do so, would be a violation of the The Posse Comitatus Act

The Posse Comitatus Act - Prohibits search, seizure, or arrest powers to US military personnel. Amended in 1981 under Public Law 97-86 to permit increased Department of Defense support of drug interdiction and other law enforcement activities. (Title 18, "Use of Army and Air Force as Posse Comitatus" - United States Code, Section 1385)

THE POSSE COMITATUS ACT
"Whoever, except in cases and under circumstances expressly authorized by the Constitution or Act of Congress, willfully uses any part of the Army or the Air Force as a posse comitatus or otherwise to execute the laws shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than two years, or both."


What this means is this: If a US armed forces on-scene commander directs, allows, or authorizes federal troops to arrest, apprehend, stop, or interfere with illegal aliens - that on scene commander can be arrested by the county sheriff of jurisdiction and can be fined and/or imprisoned for up to 2 years. And commanders know the Posse Comitatus Act. Do not ask them to violate it.

My comments, if I may. Yes, some of us would prefer to have US Armed forces engaging illegals with interlocking and suppressing fires along the border; yes, some of us would prefer to have a flaming wall of steel rain down on the illegals as they cross the border; yes, we would prefer to see illegals' employers led away in handcuffs - but don't ask commanders to violate the Posse Comitatus Act 'cause it ain't gonna happen.

What you and I can ask for:

We can ask for DoD assests in support of drug interdiction as described above.

On the other hand, Army National Guard forces under STATE control are exempted from the Posse Comitatus Act and governors know that. Find out and know the limitations of state control as it applies to law enforcement. Once you federalize them, you tie their hands and they can't perform law enforcement.

We can ask for Department of Defense support of the border patrol and FBI, realizing that such support will be to the border patrol and not to perform law enforcement.

Know the Posse Comitatus Law:
http://www.au.af.mil/au/aul/bibs/posse/posse.htm

Just one remark,

In case you think I'm out of bounds with my "flaming wall of steel" comment; read the messages about the MS-13 gang bangers accompaning the illegals as they cross. Yes I would love to see a flaming wall of steel on the gangbangers and their supporters - knowing it ain't gonna happen.

The United States Constitution defines the duty of the federal government to repel invasions. The federal government has ignored its constitutional obligations and is responsible for the problems arising from the ILLEGAL ALIEN INVASION of the United States. Invasion does not necessarily involve armed invasion by a foreign power. U.S. case law has defined invasion as "forced, intentional and unauthorized" entry into the United States. People running across the border are invaders.


Article 4, Section 4: "The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion;

And here is something else we can do.

“If guest worker amnesty for illegal aliens becomes law I will vote against EVERY republican (at all levels) on the ballot on Election Day 2006"

dxd, I agree. Our military would be keeping out invaders if we put them on the border. Just because they are not an organized military force (or are they) doesn't mean they are not invaders. I'm not asking them to arrest or detain anyone. I am not expecting them to do anything of the sort. I am expecting our government to use OUR soldiers to keep invaders from crossing OUR borders. How is that wrong?

And in response to voting out republicans, we need to vote out those democrats, too. They aren't any better. Third parties have got to be the victors if we are going to step back from the globalist agenda.

“If guest worker amnesty for illegal aliens becomes law I will vote against EVERY republican (at all levels) on the ballot on Election Day 2006"

My no-good senators in DC have already been told. It's done no good & will do no good until more people get on their butts.

DxD and JanusJr

I admire and read just about everything you post to Alipac, and, as a regular reader, I personally appreciate all the hard work you're doing, and I want to thank you for it.

Yes, yes, yes, defense against invasions is crystal clear in the Constitution. Now you can beat me up if you want to, for posting this - it is improper for this website to demand the placement of soldiers and airmen on the border. Unless extreme federal declarations waive the Posse Comitatus Law, all you're doing is asking to put soldiers and airmen in harms way. You put em on the border, but they cannot, by law, engage the illegal aliens as they cross.

What you'll have is a situation where US soldiers and airmen will be laughed at by the illegals, gangbangers and the drug lords.

You will find no commander at any echelon who will allow a posse comitatus violation - it ain't gonna happen. Every commander knows posse comitatus, and every single Sheriff in the country knows the posse comitatus law. You don't ever want (barring the most extreme circumstances) US troops engaging in combat on US soil.

Instead of this website demanding that US soldiers and airmen be placed in harms way along the Mexican border, this website should demand the the border patrol, and other federal agencies who are tasked with border enforcement, be allowed to do their jobs with blanket, unhindered, use of deadly force.

By demanding soldiers and airmen on the border, are you saying, that, given unhindered use of deadly force, the border patrol, FBI, DEA, IRS, ATF, Customs and Immigration, and any other federal agencies involved with border security, can't get the job done? I don't think you're saying that. Border patrol agents articulate what they need in order to get the job done, but the congress refuses to listen. Does this website also refuse to listen?

The Congress hasn't given them the additional manpower and authorities (use of deadly force) to get the job done! Why not try that first?

This website should demand:

That the border be secured
That agencies be allowed to do their jobs WITH UNLIMITED USE OF DEADLY FORCE.
Laws with felony convictions for employers of illegals.

Illegals, MS-13s, and drug lords don't understand "go home." They might understand a law enforcement .45 caliber bullet between their eyeballs, however.

We should stop getting into the weeds and picking and chosing who should go to the border.

Look, I'm probably more mean-spirited than most of you guys. I'd love to see illegals get sprayed by 7.62mm and 50 cal. as they come across. I'd love to see claymore mines, trip flares, and engineering devices along the border. But we (myself included) have got to realize that border patrol and agencies down there can do their jobs if Congress does its job and allows them to. I recommend this website adjust its demands accordingly.

You have no right to demand anything on this website!

All I'm doing is recommending and justifying. Members of this website understand the border far better than I do, I just don't want see us get defocused.

Unless extreme federal declarations waive the Posse Comitatus Law, all you're doing is asking to put soldiers and airmen in harms way. You put em on the border, but they cannot, by law, engage the illegal aliens as they cross.

Coto?

What?

An invasion of a million or so people a year isn't considered an invasion? An invasion that warrants military intervention by any means necessary?

The Minutemen proved that just by having people on the border the flow is stemmed. I think that the military on the border would do even greater good.

And I sort of doubt that anyone is going to laugh at the US military.

Hi JanusJnr,

Sorry I misspelled your name.

Please re-read what i posted. Yes, I consider it an invasion too, but a formal declaration of war against Mexico would need to preface the deployment of US troops on US soil.

Given use of deadly force, and enough firepower how can the border patrol not make a decisive difference? Why can't deadly engineering devices along the border make a difference? Why can't attack helicopters (with weapons free) flown by border patrol aviators make a decisive difference?

You put active component soldiers and airmen on the border, they cannot legally fire a shot.

Coto

I believe that the posse comitatus is patterned after old Rome whose generals, after a great conquest, could camp outside Rome with their armies but could not enter Rome. That was to keep Rome from having military coups as you see happening in third world countries fairly frequently.

However, as I understand my reading of our constitution, all citizens become militia in time of need. Our present government is so afraid of the people it has betrayed that any militia would be arrested immediately...or shot on sight. Currently the MinuteMen, which are the best thing to happen in this country in a long long time, are insulted with the term 'vigilantes'....I wonder if I would be out of place to suggest that as much as any time in history vigilantes are desperately needed now ??

I ran across something recently that I haven't had time to investigate, but I will do that and get back to this thread.

RR