Thread: Hispanics Come in All Colors & Ideologies

Immigrants are just like any other group. Most are very fine people, while a few are rotten apples. Our system does help filter out some of the rotten applies through background checks, but nothing in life is 100% guaranteed. Still, overall I think this country benefits from legal immigration.

I'd like to see us scale back some of the family based immigration. When Congress added brothers and sisters of U.S. Citizens as a preference category, the numbers of people applying to immigrate swelled. Once one immigrant comes and is naturalized, then his brothers, sisters, and their wives come, then other relatives, etc. (chain immigration). I just don't see a compelling reason to reunite brothers and sisters in this time of easy international travel.

Employer based immigration provides more benefits to the U.S., giving employers access to top notch talent from around the world. We should keep this largely intact, but bump it up during times of strong economic growth, particularly in technology.

Originally Posted by bquasius

Immigrants are just like any other group. Most are very fine people, while a few are rotten apples. Our system does help filter out some of the rotten applies through background checks, but nothing in life is 100% guaranteed. Still, overall I think this country benefits from legal immigration.

I'd like to see us scale back some of the family based immigration. When Congress added brothers and sisters of U.S. Citizens as a preference category, the numbers of people applying to immigrate swelled. Once one immigrant comes and is naturalized, then his brothers, sisters, and their wives come, then other relatives, etc. (chain immigration). I just don't see a compelling reason to reunite brothers and sisters in this time of easy international travel.

Employer based immigration provides more benefits to the U.S., giving employers access to top notch talent from around the world. We should keep this largely intact, but bump it up during times of strong economic growth, particularly in technology.

I'm going to part ways with you on this one as well. What you state is how it should work, not how it would work. In fact, what most employers would be far more likely to do is to preferntially select employees from countries in which they work for vastly lower wages, and so displace fairly paid American professionals with underpaid foreign professionals. We already see this in the medical field. Do you really believe that Indian and Pakistani doctors are superior to those of every other country to the extent that they now make up the largest percentage of foreign-born medical professionals in the US? No, what they are is the lowest paid medical professionals whose skills approximate those of first world medical professionals the HMOs seek to displace.

Again, I would like to see an absolute cessation of immigration until we can have an informed debate in this country in which the views of common Americans get a fair airing, rather than the usual confabs dominated by special interests who don't give a rat's skinny behind as to how the policies they promote negatively impact the average citizen.

Our economy would grind to a halt if we completely eliminated work based immigration. I agree that some employers abuse H1 visas for skilled professionals by hiring immigrants at lower wages, sometimes firing citizens and hiring H1 visa holders at lower wages. Until we graduate enough professionals in each and every area we are forced to rely to a degree on immigrant professionals. Our system needs work, but I wouldn't "toss the baby out with the bath water."

For example, in my own field of engineering, the U.S. doesn't graduate enough engineers each year to fill the number of engineering jobs created. Scary thought: China is graduating close to a million engineers a year now, while we graduate 80,000 or so. India is way ahead of us in engineering as well. Part of the problem is engineering pays less than law or medicine, but another part of it is the lack of science and mathematics in the secondary schools.

Originally Posted by bquasius

Our economy would grind to a halt if we completely eliminated work based immigration. I agree that some employers abuse H1 visas for skilled professionals by hiring immigrants at lower wages, sometimes firing citizens and hiring H1 visa holders at lower wages. Until we graduate enough professionals in each and every area we are forced to rely to a degree on immigrant professionals. Our system needs work, but I wouldn't "toss the baby out with the bath water."

For example, in my own field of engineering, the U.S. doesn't graduate enough engineers each year to fill the number of engineering jobs created. Scary thought: China is graduating close to a million engineers a year now, while we graduate 80,000 or so. India is way ahead of us in engineering as well. Part of the problem is engineering pays less than law or medicine, but another part of it is the lack of science and mathematics in the secondary schools.

There are numerous fallacies to your position. First off, an immediate but temporary halt to immigration would not cause our economy to "grind to a halt" or even to slow down appreciably. This is because the immediate need for these people is not that pressing. Also, there is nowhere near the shortage of engineers that you pretend. I know this because I hire engineers and am myself an engineer, and there is no shortage of domestically grown engineers available in any numbers required from various temporary employment firms. That so many engineers are available as temps tells me that we are underutilizing our home-grown talent. Furthermore, many engineering tasks can easily be farmed out to foreign firms when necessary without necessitating the importation of laborers and their families. We do this with some subsystems, for example. What you're offering is typical pro-immigration propaganda and scare tactics.

Now, it is true that we need to do a better job of graduating quality engineers and other degreed professionals for the future growth of domestic industry, particularly in the applied sciences and medical fields, but - and pay attention to this - our educational system is not going to get any better as long as we allow the educations of our own children to suffer in order to cater to the needs of non-English-speaking immigrants. It's not going to improve in states like mine (Texas) so long as the entire educational system is strained to the edge of bankruptcy by uncontrolled immigration. It's not going to get any better as long as there is a disincentive to get degrees in the sciences because pay is suppressed by overimportation of underpaid foreign labor.

In short, I have heard the arguments you offer before and have rejected them as hopelessly flawed.

Bquasius, from what I have read and heard discussed, the claim that there is a severe shortage of engineers is a fallacy perpetuated by those who want cheap foreign technically skilled H1B workers (see the following articles).

Just last week, I heard a discussion (NPR I think) which stated that the salaries for engineers have declined by 12% since 2000. The point that was made was that if we are operating according to supply and demand, if engineers are in short supply, their salaries should be rising or at least not falling. But importing foreign engineers is what is keeping salaries low for citizens. The fact is that US employers have an insatiable thirst for cheap skilled labor in the same way they lust after cheap unskilled labor, and in each case, Americans suffer.

http://link.toolbot.com/www.alipac.us/24784

http://www.businessweek.com/smallbiz/co ... 623922.htm

Originally Posted by Kate

Bquasius, from what I have read and heard discussed, the claim that there is a severe shortage of engineers is a fallacy perpetuated by those who want cheap foreign technically skilled H1B workers (see the following articles).

Just last week, I heard a discussion (NPR I think) which stated that the salaries for engineers have declined by 12% since 2000. The point that was made was that if we are operating according to supply and demand, if engineers are in short supply, their salaries should be rising or at least not falling. But importing foreign engineers is what is keeping salaries low for citizens. The fact is that US employers have an insatiable thirst for cheap skilled labor in the same way they lust after cheap unskilled labor, and in each case, Americans suffer.

http://link.toolbot.com/www.alipac.us/24784

http://www.businessweek.com/smallbiz/co ... 623922.htm

Again, that matches my own experience. I am seeing more and more temp agencies specializing in engineers and draftsmen. There would be no proliferation of these agencies if there wasn't a substantial excess of unemployed domestic talent. I am also seeing wage depression for engineers who don't retain intellectual property rights.

Originally Posted by Kate

Bquasius, from what I have read and heard discussed, the claim that there is a severe shortage of engineers is a fallacy perpetuated by those who want cheap foreign technically skilled H1B workers (see the following articles).

Just last week, I heard a discussion (NPR I think) which stated that the salaries for engineers have declined by 12% since 2000. The point that was made was that if we are operating according to supply and demand, if engineers are in short supply, their salaries should be rising or at least not falling. But importing foreign engineers is what is keeping salaries low for citizens. The fact is that US employers have an insatiable thirst for cheap skilled labor in the same way they lust after cheap unskilled labor, and in each case, Americans suffer.

http://link.toolbot.com/www.alipac.us/24784

http://www.businessweek.com/smallbiz/co ... 623922.htm

I agree. I read somewhere there are 7,000 workers in this area from India. 7,000! The University of North Carolina and North Carolina State University graduate at least that many each year. Where are they going?

Looks like "bquasius" has access to just about every phony statistic and fraudulent argument employed by the alien enablers. I wonder what his game is, don't you?

Originally Posted by CrocketsGhost

Looks like "bquasius" has access to just about every phony statistic and fraudulent argument employed by the alien enablers. I wonder what his game is, don't you?

I think he may have some good intentions but came off wrong to us on some of his posts. Don't pick on him too much.

Originally Posted by JohnB2012

Originally Posted by CrocketsGhost

Looks like "bquasius" has access to just about every phony statistic and fraudulent argument employed by the alien enablers. I wonder what his game is, don't you?

I think he may have some good intentions but came off wrong to us on some of his posts. Don't pick on him too much.

I reserve the right to think otherwise...