Thread: I OPPOSE illegals from coming – NEUTRAL on the ones here

I’m talking about the poorest of the world already here. I’m not for opening the borders. I’m just trying to find a solution for the ones already here. We can make illegals self deport, but I‘ve never supported forced deportation. It will damage our image. We have 10 million illegal aliens, and if we can get rid of 9,9 million of them, we can allow 100,000 poorest to stay. 100,000 people to get amnesty is always better than 10 million, don’t ya think ? Don’t you understand you will not be able to get it your way completely ?

Cassie, I think you're an open borders supporter trying to get us to sympathize with the illegals who are here.

I DO sympathize with those who are poor, however, my first concern is poor Americans. As Americans, this has to be our first responsibility. We must deal first with our own fellow citizens. I do not believe that the US should continue to act to make these Americans poorer or to inhibit them from being able to improve their lives. Yet, alllowing illegals to flood our country, and now considering letting them stay would do just that. Under these conditons, poor Americans will be swept under the rug.

The fact is that Democrats are MAJOR HYPOCRITES because they are turning their backs on America's poor with their position on amnesty.

I frankly don't give a damn what people in Mexico think about deportation. Allowing people to sneak into our country and then not doing something about this sends the wrong message - that we are not concerned about laws, that if you're wealthy and powerful enough, you can pressure the government to ignore the laws. Once the rule of law is gone, we will be no better than Mexico.

That’s very selfish. Because you’re not responsible for something, gives you no reason not to care.

Regarding the poor in other countries, the US has always been the biggest donor of all kinds of aid to poorer countries. American citizens have given from their own pockets through non-profits enormous amounts of money to care for those in other countries who are impoverished. I think it is a good policy for the US to help the poor in other countries, and the US has been the most generous country in the world.

However, I do not support allowing all the world's poor to come here. This makes no sense. Yeah, let's just transplant huge numbers of people to the US, destroying our country, and in the process encouraging families to be broken apart. Helping other poor countries needs to be done on their territory, and this includes encouraging them to make the changes to their own government (e.g., getting rid of the corruption) and culture that will help them prosper.

Originally Posted by Kate

I’m talking about the poorest of the world already here. I’m not for opening the borders. I’m just trying to find a solution for the ones already here. We can make illegals self deport, but I‘ve never supported forced deportation. It will damage our image. We have 10 million illegal aliens, and if we can get rid of 9,9 million of them, we can allow 100,000 poorest to stay. 100,000 people to get amnesty is always better than 10 million, don’t ya think ? Don’t you understand you will not be able to get it your way completely ?

Cassie, I think you're an open borders supporter trying to get us to sympathize with the illegals who are here.

*sigh*
1 - where is your lovely avatar
2 - when are your brain cells going to understand the words that I'm saying ? how dare you to think that I'm an open border supporter when I clearly said in the quoted part that 9,9 million ( 99% ) of illegals should go home to the country they came from. I'm talking here about 0,1% that will be subject to discussion: deportation or amnesty. And you think I'm a open border supporter when I tell that 99% should go home ??
*sigh*

The fact is that Democrats are MAJOR HYPOCRITES because they are turning their backs on America's poor with their position on amnesty.

1- Al Gore scores high on illegal immigration
2- Democratic voters are against amnesty too, or do you think that 80% of Americans that oppose illegal aliens are all Republicans ? Most Democratic voters understand that illegal immigration is a problem, but not the sole problem this country has.

Regarding the poor in other countries, the US has always been the biggest donor of all kinds of aid to poorer countries. American citizens have given from their own pockets through non-profits enormous amounts of money to care for those in other countries who are impoverished. I think it is a good policy for the US to help the poor in other countries, and the US has been the most generous country in the world.

And that's why I love this country. We, Americans, give more money on charity than any other nation's citizens per capita. But our government is not more generous than other countries. A Country like Norway gave much more money after the Tsunami. I mean the Norwegian government gave more percentage of its gnp than the US government, yet the US citizen were very loyal. I like my fellow citizens, I dislike Bush and his cronies.

However, I do not support allowing all the world's poor to come here. This makes no sense. Yeah, let's just transplant huge numbers of people to the US, destroying our country, and in the process encouraging families to be broken apart.

I don't support the world's poor to come here either. I never said that, I was only talking about 0,1 % of the poorest illegal aliens already here and you blew everything I said out of proportion.

Helping other poor countries needs to be done on their territory, and this includes encouraging them to make the changes to their own government (e.g., getting rid of the corruption) and culture that will help them prosper.

Someone here said that amnesty will cost us 2 trillion, if we can self deport 99% of the illegals + if Hilliburton didn't absorb 600 billion for the war, we would save 2,58 trillion together. With this amount of money we can help many more people that need it, but no, most here voted Bush over Gore in 2000 ( no accusation, just my guess )

Originally Posted by 2ndamendsis

I want to help the Americans living under the poverty line too.
That’s why I vote Democrat. Bush only increased the gap between rich and poor !

LOL, it's the dems that created the slave labor/poverty gap/cradle to grave society with their massive, ever growing entitlement programs. Which, btw, we're paying for - not them.

bushie and gang are simply pushing the agenda to another level. ...
with almost total help from the dems.

Boosh and his gang are more devastating to this country than the Dems have ever been. Dems have social programs, of course, we have to please our left wing too ( liberals on the left of the party), just as the GOP has to please their right wing ( religious right ). We Democrats face the threat from the left, from Nader. Nadar votes in Florida gave Bush the presidency in 2000. GOP has nothing to fear, religious right has nowhere to go, our left can go to Nader. We must keep the left wing with proposing social programs. We Dems do care about illegal alien problem, but we hardly talk about it ??? We can win the White House over the war, not over illegal immigration. We need to attract the Nader votes, swing votes and moderate Repubicans. More Republicans oppose illegals than Democrats, but we have a more powerful card: the war card.

Originally Posted by GREGAGREATAMERICAN

Originally Posted by PinestrawGuys

PM's are still disabled...

well i would think and correct me if im wrong it may be disabiled here but not in the rest of the internet ie;
Yahooo, explorer, msn .... ect
i realy would rather not interrupt cassi and her thread

sorry cassie i feel like im hung out to dry by the insturtors or someone that is incharge

That is very sweet of you that you don't want to interrupt my thread. But you can ask here any question you like. It can be on topic or off topic, but when it's off topic, you can always post it in the off topic section of this board. But go ahead, ask what you want in this thread, we here at alipac would be glad to help you.

Originally Posted by had_enuf

The ones already here are NOT the poorest in the world. They're the ones who sneaked across the border.

I know that, but we can still help the poorest in their countries. Amnesty to 10 million will cost 2 trillion, get rid of 99% of illegals and you'll save 99% of 2 trillion, with this money we can do many good things.

You're probably about half right on this one but it's probably closer to 30 million by now.

I told before that I like Buchanan because he's an honest man. I just received his book state of emergency, and already read death of the west. He was talking about 8 million illegals in Census 2000, and now it will be around 10 million illegals.

Call me selfish then Cassie.

I didn't say you were selfish, I was talking to another person

Off topic Cassie. This is an illegal immigration forum.

and this is my thread, and if I want to bring it up, I do so, unless alipac says me not to. I just felt terrible how dolphins are treated, I write from the heart, why is this a problem ? I'm just asking a question, we're just having a dialogue. I have spend so much time discussing illegal immigration and its problems, why is mentioning dolphins in one sentence of a post a problem after all my efforts ?

Sounds good to me Cassie. Do whatever you want as long as you keep your hand out of my pockets.

I'll keep my hands out of your pocket, just as I expect you to keep your hands out of my pocket. and don't forget that illegals take more out of my pocket than from your pocket. You live in NC, I live in Ca, we and Texas take the nation's burden of illegals and their costs. Not nc, ga, ne, mi, wa, nd, mn, etc

Originally Posted by cassie

Originally Posted by 2ndamendsis

I want to help the Americans living under the poverty line too.
That’s why I vote Democrat. Bush only increased the gap between rich and poor !

LOL, it's the dems that created the slave labor/poverty gap/cradle to grave society with their massive, ever growing entitlement programs. Which, btw, we're paying for - not them.

bushie and gang are simply pushing the agenda to another level. ...
with almost total help from the dems.

Boosh and his gang are more devastating to this country than the Dems have ever been. Dems have social programs, of course, we have to please our left wing too ( liberals on the left of the party), just as the GOP has to please their right wing ( religious right ). We Democrats face the threat from the left, from Nader. Nadar votes in Florida gave Bush the presidency in 2000. GOP has nothing to fear, religious right has nowhere to go, our left can go to Nader. We must keep the left wing with proposing social programs. We Dems do care about illegal alien problem, but we hardly talk about it ??? We can win the White House over the war, not over illegal immigration. We need to attract the Nader votes, swing votes and moderate Repubicans. More Republicans oppose illegals than Democrats, but we have a more powerful card: the war card.

That is what is known a a naked assertion. Do you have any facts to back up your claims regarding Dems vs GOP?

Originally Posted by PhredE

Re: 'selfish'? Maybe.
I am no more selfish than the illegal that sneaks in to 'make a better life' for him/her self; and I, at least, obey ALL laws. Most people that know me well probably would not agree with your assessment.

Illegals are selfish too. The ilegals that come here to take our benefits, the illegals that are not starving in their own countris. I was only talking about the 0,1% of the poorest of illegals here in the country.

Oh, and BTW, I was a registered Democrat most of life (for the record, I never voted for Bush). Lately however, I've come to the conclusion that the Democratic party has little interest in protecting Americans, American jobs, etc (eg. supports Guest-Worker, Amnesty, ~= is "Hispandering")... and remember that the Clinton Administration signed NAFTA into law?

NAFTA signed by Clinton ??? Anway, NAFTA is a scam, but an economic treaty with Canada is fine with me.

I changed my party affiliation about 6-7 years ago and am now a registered Independent.

But you can still vote for the Democratic presidential candidate. I'm a registered Democrat too, and will not vote outside the party in 2008. The GOP must pay for its mismanagement under Boosh.

Unlike many people on the issue, my main opposition to illegal immigration in general is not based on fiscal concerns (although, there appears to be ample evidence that such thing is a very big concern and is reason enough). My interest lies in the assimilation, cultural, political dynamics involved

.

My problem with illegals is that they broker the law. If I break the law, I've to pay for it, so do illegals.

Sorry, I have been selective and didn't answer all your points, no time for it right now

1 - where is your lovely avatar

My kitties are waiting in the wings.....time to pull out the anti-Bush avatar.

2 - when are your brain cells going to understand the words that I'm saying ? how dare you to think that I'm an open border supporter...

No offense intended Cassie. But you've kind of been all over the map on the amnesty question. Maybe you are still trying to decide where you stand, which is your prerogative. You began your posts stating that you did not have a position for or against amnesty. Then in another thread you said you did not support amnesty. Here you say well maybe some can stay. All along you've said you support Hillary and other Democrats who are falling all over themselves to grant amnesty. Okay, so the war is very important. But the Dems are unwilling to even take tough action on the war or cut off funding so Bush has to pull troops out. I'm just confused.

2- Democratic voters are against amnesty too, or do you think that 80% of Americans that oppose illegal aliens are all Republicans ? Most Democratic voters understand that illegal immigration is a problem, but not the sole problem this country has.

Most voters irrespective of party affiliation are against illegal immigration and open borders.

Unfortunately, Democratic POLITICIANS do not care whether Democratic or Republican voters are against amnesty. They have made it very clear that the opinions and votes of average Americans do not matter to them.

They have set their sights on illegal aliens becoming future voters, and don't really care what you or I think. They are looking toward the day when they will have a permanent underclass reliant on them for entitlements, and they do not intend to disappoint!

When are people going to understand that Hillary, Obama, Reid, Pelosi, McCain and Kennedy are ALL in it for themselves? They don't care what any of us want. The Democrats in particular have denied their traditional base of the poor and working class. Amnesty sure as heck will not make their lives better, and the middle class will be stuck with paying trillions of dollars in entitlements and other services for those given amnesty. And the next generation will have to deal with the ever-increasing national debt. Dems such as Zoe Lofgren (CA) are currently working on trying to increase H1B limits to put even more middle class Americans out of decent paying jobs.

The Democrats are simply ignoring all of the things that are inconsistent with their desire to grant amnesty. They are all over the global warming issue now but refuse to talk about population growth that will come from amnesty, which will make it next to impossible to reduce carbon emissions. And then there's the environmental damage.

Have you heard one single Democrat other than one of the new blue-dog Democrats talk about any of this? NO. And you won't. Anyone who has children should be extremely worried about the future of this country. I'm so mad at the Dems I could spit nails. They have really sold out to corporate interests and for their own personal gain.

.......most here voted Bush over Gore in 2000 ( no accusation, just my guess )

I did not. I saw through Bush from the very beginning and never had any inclination to vote for him.

Originally Posted by Kate

My kitties are waiting in the wings.....time to pull out the anti-Bush avatar.

an anti Bush avatar will always get my support

No offense intended Cassie. But you've kind of been all over the map on the amnesty question. Maybe you are still trying to decide where you stand, which is your prerogative. You began your posts stating that you did not have a position for or against amnesty. Then in another thread you said you did not support amnesty. Here you say well maybe some can stay. All along you've said you support Hillary and other Democrats who are falling all over themselves to grant amnesty. Okay, so the war is very important. But the Dems are unwilling to even take tough action on the war or cut off funding so Bush has to pull troops out. I'm just confused.

I apologize, I know I've been confusing, but this is because I'm learning new things every day here on alipac, which make my opinions change. I was a Hillary supporter, untill someone here gave me a link that gave cards to all presidential candidates and their stance on illegal aliens, and Gore scores very high. So, I switched from Hillary to Gore. I voted Gore in 2000 of course. Gore doesn't support amnesty, he scores an A - !
I'm against amnesty to 99% of the illegals here, but I also understand that you'll never be able to get rid of all illegals. I'm just being realistic. Who cares about 0,1% illegals if we can manage to get rid of 99,9% of them ??

Most voters irrespective of party affiliation are against illegal immigration and open borders.

I'm glad that you see this, and don't think that Democratic voters are open border supporters.

Unfortunately, Democratic POLITICIANS do not care whether Democratic or Republican voters are against amnesty. They have made it very clear that the opinions and votes of average Americans do not matter to them.

Gore cares, anyway, the Democratic politicians know that they can't win the White House over illegal immigration. Republicans like Hunter and Tancredo, or even McCain and Giuliani are more anti illegals than most Democratic politicians, Gore is an exception. The Democratic party knows they can't win the 2008 elections on this issue, and that's why they want the war to be the main topic.

They have set their sights on illegal aliens becoming future voters, and don't really care what you or I think. They are looking toward the day when they will have a permanent underclass reliant on them for entitlements, and they do not intend to disappoint!

You have no evidence for this all. The same I can say about the Republicans that they want cheap labor and people that are Catholic.

When are people going to understand that Hillary, Obama, Reid, Pelosi, McCain and Kennedy are ALL in it for themselves?
They don't care what any of us want. The Democrats in particular have denied their traditional base of the poor and working class. Amnesty sure as heck will not make their lives better, and the middle class will be stuck with paying trillions of dollars in entitlements and other services for those given amnesty. And the next generation will have to deal with the ever-increasing national debt. Dems such as Zoe Lofgren (CA) are currently working on trying to increase H1B limits to put even more middle class Americans out of decent paying jobs.

the H1B is not the problem here. When you have 10 million illegal aliens, who cares about 65,000 people that come here legally through the H1B ? The H1B is for scientist and university educated people, they won't force our middle class out of jobs. Most Americans are not even university level educated, at least I'm not but I understand that a medical expert from Germany can be useful to this country, that's why we have the H1B. Or a surgeon from Denmark.

The Democrats are simply ignoring all of the things that are inconsistent with their desire to grant amnesty. They are all over the global warming issue now but refuse to talk about population growth that will come from amnesty, which will make it next to impossible to reduce carbon emissions. And then there's the environmental damage.

I told this before that the Democrats contradict themselves. they care about the poor, but force the poor into more poverty through illegal immigration. they care about education, but our schools are being scuked dry by illegal kids. They care about the environment, while we have millions of illegal aliens driving here in Ca.

Originally Posted by cassie

Gore doesn't support amnesty, he scores an A - !

We've already covered this. That rating applied only to his time in Congress, which was before this became an issue. It does not take into account the fact that he was Clinton's point man on loosening restrictions on immigration, including temporarily ELIMINATING criminal background checks and pressing states and federal agencies to make easier the obtaining of identification and services for those who may be in the country illegally.

In other words, rather than disingenuously relying on an out-of-date rating that is fifteen years old, most of use have the ability to actually look at his record as VP and his rhetoric since illegal immigration became a huge problem, in large part due to his and Clinton's own policies.

Here is a more up-to-date overview of Gore's immigration stances provided by About.com during the 2000 election cycle, based upon his platform in the Presidential race:

- Gore feels that bringing and keeping immigrant families together is a priority, and his record stands up to this. He has already been supporting legal immigration by trying to improve services and fighting for family reunification laws.

- He has also worked against prejudice, to make sure that all immigrants are counted and well represented by government, as well as better assimilated into American culture. He worked hard on a Census initiative, to this end.

- Al Gore denounced Proposition 187, which was a California ballot initiative posed to "deny all social services, including medical and educational programs for children, to illegal aliens residing in California. Gore encouraged a crowd of 1,800 Hispanics attending a 1994 Voter Registration Project to organize and defeat the proposition, calling it a 'nuevo [new] apartheid.'"

- Al Gore supports the Amnesty proposal, which would allow certain long-term illegal immigrants to become legal residents.

- Gore supports medical and nutritional assistance for immigrants, as well as protection for legal immigrants who become disabled. He also supports welfare for legal immigrants.

- He has also worked extremely hard to improve educational opportunities for immigrants.

- Both Al Gore and the Republican Congress are in favor of simplifying and bettering the temporary work visa programs.

Note that "immigrants" clearly refers to illegal immigrants, as legal immigrants are specified separately.