Thread: An open question

Hello,
I have a question that I need some help with. This election season has, so far, been contentious, as well as frustrating from both sides of the aisle. It seems as it is business as usual.
I have experienced some very personal attacks from folks with whom I thought I had the same ideas, as well as the same focus (yes, here and elsewhere). It is clear to me that America no longer works the way the Founders of this nation intended it to work. I am deeply concerned when I hear that people will vote for Hillary, or Obama, or try to co-opt a third party candidate, when the two parties have refused to listen to what America wants, and a great majority of people won't vote because they say "I don't like either of the turds being offered as candidates". I want an end to illegal immigration, runaway taxation, more intrusive, unresponsive government, restrictive unconstitutional laws, environmental laws which allow everyone else to drill for oil, but not us, in our OWN country, less restrictive gun ownership right, the right to smoke unfettered by ridiculous taxes, etc.
I guess I would like to know what everyone wants out of a major, national party. There are powerful forces at work to unseat the Constitution, and hand us over to the U.N. Case in point, look at the Global Poverty Act, which gives .7% of our GNP to the U.N for "Africa" (This little gem was introduced by Barack, and passed in back room deals in the House and the Senate) Conversely, look at what the Democrats, and Republicans are looking at in the next session of congress "U.N. Rights of the child" "U.N. rights of women",the banning of all small arms, The Law of the Sea Treaty, (The aforementioned are part of the U.N. Millennium Project), and many others. The next president will be voting on whether or not America gets to remain as an autonomous nation. I feel sold out by both parties. It seems to me that a return to a more strict Constitutionalist platform, getting rid of all laws that ARE unconstitutional, and forcing the hand of a major party makes more sense than splitting the vote to buy time. I feel that most folks just want to live life, and not have to worry about having the Govt in their pocket, and business, and life, and, most importantly, not have to worry about piss poor laws being passed by politicians, who are NOT interested in living under what they pass (Case in point, the Contract With America, contrasted with the AUTOMATIC pay raises Congress, and the Senate currently enjoy. The retirement for Conress and the Senate etc). Yet, we seem to be fighting over "The lesser of two evils" rather than forcing a change in a major party. Believe it or not, the Founders hated "Party Men", and derided them because they were ardent believers in the country they were in the process of building. Alexander Hamilton wanted a very strong, intrusive, sweeping central government. That, however, didn't sit well with men like Thomas Jefferson, Aaron Burr, Benjamin Franklin etc. and at this point, it seems as we have a Federalist style government, no matter what party is in power.
At this point, I am for staying in my party, but forcing a change (via a contingent that has sprung up within it) however, if that is not possible, changing to a different one. Am I the only one who feels this way? Are there others of you who think this is a viable option? ALIPAC is a great organization, and if it coupled itself with a few other like minded people and organizations it could be a force for a major shake up in national politics (In a major party). Is there anyone else who believes this? Would anyone else be interested in this? William?

I like to look at it like a house of cards. I don't like the house of cards at present so I will vote to have the house of cards crumble.

Then we can start building another house of cards.

GO RON PAUL!

How? What is the process?

Originally Posted by roundabout

I like to look at it like a house of cards. I don't like the house of cards at present so I will vote to have the house of cards crumble.

Then we can start building another house of cards.

GO RON PAUL!

I really hope you've a mouse in your pocket!

Originally Posted by roundabout

I like to look at it like a house of cards. I don't like the house of cards at present so I will vote to have the house of cards crumble.

Then we can start building another house of cards.

GO RON PAUL!

OK, but, why not force the house to be rebuilt from within? Forcing it to fall, and then rebuilding is dangerous from the standpoint that the power vacuum WILL be filled, and usually not with the type of person who has the country's best interest at heart

Originally Posted by arrow782001

At this point, I am for staying in my party, but forcing a change (via a contingent that has sprung up within it) however, if that is not possible, changing to a different one. Am I the only one who feels this way? Are there others of you who think this is a viable option? ALIPAC is a great organization, and if it coupled itself with a few other like minded people and organizations it could be a force for a major shake up in national politics (In a major party). Is there anyone else who believes this? Would anyone else be interested in this? William?

The Ron Paul people are making organized efforts to take back the GOP from the neocons, but you don't have to be a Ron paul supporter. The operation isn't about him - it's about getting people to get active in their GOP to take their party back.

Becoming GOP precint leaders, running for small local office positions...all things that will eventually allow us to regain sanity.

I have to warn you though, it's both stomach wrenching and oddly amusing to associate with the thick headed morons who are apparently the only people left in the GOP these days.

It all depends on how far or how much it has to be rebuilt. Where would you like to draw the line? Look around. When a house of cards crumbles, sometimes the bottom rooms are still left standing. If one is very careful removing the cards that have fallen, those rooms may remain intact. Or one could just start fresh. Asfore myself, I think we have alot of work in front of us.

GO RON PAUL

You aren't the only one concerned.....I for one feel so totally betrayed by this government that it makes me sick. Unfortunatly I am one who didn't get involved or really even care much my whole life....didn't think I needed to....after all....they took an oath....they were supposed to be looking out after us. I was too busy trying to survive to play baby sitter and didn't realize I had to. This whole immigration debate has open my eyes to a ton of different things......unfortunatly I wonder if it's too late. Heck....I thought before they passed laws they HAD to see if it was Constitutional.....I thought that was the purpose of the checks and balances our government has. Silly me.

It has gone so far off track it's not even funny and like you, I don't know where exactly to start again to make change. Even if "we the people said ENOUGH" who is going to enforce anything? "We" can't seem to do anything.......the "right way"...the "peaceful way" seems to be so involved and expensive....not many are independantly wealthy enough to go it alone. They can drag things forever if they want to to where people give up.....they've already brainwashed the youth and are bringing in legal and illegal people who don't have a clue what America used to be. Ever noticed that's exactly what they are doing to all first world free countries? Running out the citizens of those countries under the guise of PC ness.....and whatever else they can. The citizens suddenly don't matter anymore. We've led the good life too long and it's your duty to hand it over or else you're racist, zenophobic, protectionist....or whatever other name they want to place on you......

Heck they can't get your support during the light of day.....then we'll do it while you're sleeping. Can't get support in the open....then we'll do it behind closed doors. Can't do that....then we'll slip something in that looks meaningless....except of course always left open to interupratation. (Excuse my spelling) I'm not even sure when I do that if it's correct anymore.

I told my husband about the deal with "mental illness" and the right to bear arms.....we just had the school shootings.....they are gung ho about this guy that was treated for a "mental illness" 9 years ago.....everything else is legal.....it's sad....but we had as many people killed in a store...no mention of legality of the gun or "mental" state of him. We have over 600 murdered each year here....no mention of the legality of the weapons or "mental illness" for those murders....just another way to take the attention off the problem to suit their agenda when it's convenient. Can't let the military have guns after WAR because lord knows they are mentally ill........and who wouldn't have some emotional disturbance? Can't give that guy a gun....he sought help after his family was killed for "depression" 10 years ago.....heck don't give her a gun....she had PMS when she was 21.....she suffered "post-partum depression".....he had to take pills to sleep because of "job stress".....forget him.... it all sounds good and wise on the surface.....

Roundabout and AngelaTC,
I wholeheartedly agree with the debate that Dr. Paul has inspired. Please don't get me wrong, however, part of the problem is (as I see it) is that like with illegal immigration, the majority of the American people agree that we must be after terrorism aggressively, wherever it may be. As far as "thick headed morons" goes, would it be possible to not name call, and place blame? I am genuinely interested in what people think, and name calling only denigrates the process. All I would really like is to find out what folks think; honestly, and civilly. Hasn't the name calling and all of the political rhetoric gotten us into this mess?

Additionally, I think that taking back the party needs to include some of what Dr. Paul has advocated. Specifically, reading the Constitution when debating a bill, passing a bill, and finally ratifying a bill into law. Aside from that, I think that there is room for a bit of wiggle room, but NOT where the Constitution, Bill of Rights, or The Declaration of Independence are concerned.

Hey arrow, I am not the most articulate spoon in the drawer, but here goes.

Terrorism. Extremist, as in extreme conservitives of Islam. Why are they so extremely conservitive?

Technology is threatning their basic tenets. Followers of Islam (not extremist) can now watch TV, surf the net, call and talk to people around the world. This upsets the extremist (they consider themselves guardians of the faith) and there are many other things to come. Think about this. You are a conservitive Muslim. You look around the world and see that technology is now bringing sex-bots to people who want a companion. (sex-bots are coming, they are being made now in Japan) Cyborg technology is on the horizon. Part human, part machine. (technology) Genetic engineering. Chickens with 4 breasts, or 6 drumsticks!

I am not advocating in any way their methods of lashing out. I am just trying, grasping at straws to try and understand terrorism and perhaps some of it's lesser expressed reasons.

Then look at our politics, coupled with our business interests that we ship around the world. Not everything that leaves our shores is warmly recieved elsewhere.