Thread: President Trump, ObamaCare is not “dead” as you claim

Originally Posted by Judy

LOL!! Oh my goodness. What are you trying to accomplish? You're the one who asked the question about where does it say in the US Constitution that the government could establish Social Security.I answered it, general welfare clause of Preamble . . .

And I have documented that your above opinion is not in harmony with the Founder’s meaning of “general welfare” as expressed during our Constitution’s framing and ratification debates. Additionally, I laid out some of the rules of constitutional construction which you ignore in posting your opinion. Why do you ignore the rules of constitutional construction in arriving at your opinion with regard to the meaning of “general welfare” as it was understood by our Founders during our Constitution's framing and ratification process? Is it you aim to make "general welfare" mean whatever you wish it to mean within our Constitution's text?


JWK


Those who reject and ignore abiding by the intentions and beliefs under which our Constitution was agree to, as those intentions and beliefs may be documented from historical records, wish to remove the anchor and rudder of our constitutional system so they may then be free to “interpret” the Constitution to mean whatever they wish it to mean.

And I've demonstrated far beyond any discussion here requires that the term general welfare as intended by the Founders applies to Social Security and Medicare as constitutional programs under the commerce clause. You're free to disagree, of course.

Originally Posted by Judy

And I've demonstrated far beyond any discussion here requires that the term general welfare as intended by the Founders applies to Social Security and Medicare as constitutional programs under the commerce clause. You're free to disagree, of course.

Judy,

You have offered your unsubstantiated opinion regarding the Founder's meaning of general welfare. On the other hand, I have offered our founders very own words, and they are far different from your opinion. Here is the evidence I provided to you:

Originally Posted by johnwk

Judy,

I’m not sure if you actually read what I posted above, especially what I wrote regarding our failure to learn the fundamental rules of constitutional construction which is absolutely essential to preserving and defending our system of government. Instead of responding to the specific points I made, you have once again offered a number of opinions while neglecting to substantiate those opinions are in harmony with the text of our Constitution, and its documented legislative intent as expressed during our Constitution’s framing and ratification process, which gives context to its text!

Now, with regard to the meaning of the phrase “general welfare”, which you mention above, as it was understood by our Founders during our Constitution’s framing a ratification process, let us recall our Founders own words!

General Welfare, our founders meaning.

In No. 83 Federalist and in explaining the meaning of the Constitution, Hamilton, in crystal clear language, refers to a “specification of particulars” [the 17 items listed beneath the phrase] which he goes on to say “evidently excludes all pretension to a general legislative authority“.

Hamilton writes:

"...the power of Congress...shall extend to certain enumerated cases. This specification of particulars evidently excludes all pretension to a general legislative authority, because an affirmative grant of special powers would be absurd as well as useless if a general authority was intended..."


This view expressed by Hamilton in the Federalist Papers during the framing and ratification debates is also in harmony with what Madison states during the framing and ratification debates:

Madison, in No. 41 Federalist, explaining the meaning of the general welfare clause to gain the approval of the proposed constitution, states the following:



"It has been urged and echoed, that the power "to lay and collect taxes...to pay the debts, and provide for the common defense and the general welfare of the United States amounts to an unlimited commission to exercise every power which may be alleged to be necessary for the common defense or general welfare. No stronger proof could be given of the distress under which these writers labor [the anti-federalists] for objections, than their stooping to such a misconstruction...But what color can this objection have, when a specification of the object alluded to by these general terms immediately follows, and is not ever separated by a longer pause than a semicolon?...For what purpose could the enumeration of particular powers be inserted, if these and all others were meant to be included in the preceding general power...But the idea of an enumeration of particulars which neither explain nor qualify the general meaning...is an absurdity."


Likewise, in the Virginia ratification Convention Madison explains the general welfare phrase in the following manner so as to gain ratification of the constitution: "the powers of the federal government are enumerated; it can only operate in certain cases; it has legislative powers on defined and limited objects, beyond which it cannot extend its jurisdiction."[3 Elliots 95]
Also see Nicholas, 3 Elliot 443 regarding the general welfare clause, which he pointed out "was united, not to the general power of legislation, but to the particular power of laying and collecting taxes...."

Similarly, George Mason, in the Virginia ratification Convention informs the convention

"The Congress should have power to provide for the general welfare of the Union, I grant. But I wish a clause in the Constitution, with respect to all powers which are not granted, that they are retained by the states. Otherwise the power of providing for the general welfare may be perverted to its destruction.". [3 Elliots 442]

For this very reason the Tenth Amendment was quickly ratified to intentionally put to rest any question whatsoever regarding the meaning of the general welfare clause and thereby cut off the pretext to allow Congress to extended its powers via the wording provide for the “general welfare“.


JWK

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States, respectively, or to the people.___ Tenth Amendment