Thread: RI school fired all of It's teachers, students 69% hispanic

BettyBB, my brother, who is now 49, and a foreman of a crew for a major concrete restoration company, making good pay, is actually a very smart guy. My mother and father (I am the last of six children) decided since they could not get the help from the school they had hoped for, scraped together the funds to hire a woman in town (we lived in a small town) who was a retired teacher, who tutored him over the summer, five nights a week. She realized what the problem was, and she went to the school too.

There they promised her, my mother and father, that he would get the help he needed, and come fall, he was placed in a new class full of fully mentally handicapped kids they were trying to integrate into mainstream school.

He started skipping school and refused to be there. By the end of the school year, he was 16, and the school decided to "release" him, meaning he no longer was a student, and no longer their responsibility. He has yet to get his GED, but is not a troubled person, in fact very successful.

We have heard so many stories within our area, and just cannot imagine why we have so much trouble with the school districts. We don't blame the teachers, although some are not good teachers, but there are many who are, and try, but, as I said, they are essentially handcuffed by all the rules and political correctness now.

My own aunt, a teacher said "a good teacher is always remembered, unfortunately, a bad teacher is always remembered too". However, the good teachers are always looked back with love and respect, I know this as my daughter did have one she still talks about (she is now 27) in fifth grade.

To be honest, my own opinion, is that our entire society, from politicians down to average citizens, is breaking down morally, and the problems we see with troubled children and families, immoral school administrators, self-righteous social workers (who step in and damage good families), corrupt big business and Wall Street tycoons, and on, all are symptomatic of our loss of morals and values.

This leaks into our public school system, has contaminated it, and the myriad of troubled kids has made it harder for those who are not and simply need help, the teachers are overwhelmed.

Originally Posted by Bettybb

Vistalad, I can imagine your frustration trying to reach these kids who had many years of programing not to take education seriously. I hear you and agree. The parents are the key.

At my brother's school district in Canada, a teacher would make a home visit for each student, before the start of every school year. That way the teacher could better understand the chlld's home environment, and had an opportunity to discuss with the parents what they could do to assist their child academically.

My son went to school that was almost entirely Hispanic, only 11% white. I was PTA President, so was around the school and the kids a great deal. Very few Hispanic parents had any involvement with the school, whether it was the PTA. or Booster Club, or parent teacher meetings.

Some of the involved Hispanic parents explained to me that in Latino culture, a kid is considered an adult when they hit 13, and so the parents thinks their job is done when the kids reach high school, and the kids is on his own. They also need the kids to start working to supplement the family income. These kids are really being set up to failby their parents.

A big ^5 for your continued effort to help underperforming kids. Have you considered running for the school board itself? In our district, the school board trustees always turned up at the PTA District counsel meetings. It was a great opportunity to bend their ear one on one. Given the achievement gap, one would think that the educational powers that be would be willing to listen to any suggestion for improvement. But in my experience, if it is anything where the teachers' union has a say, it won't happen.

Thanks for the kind words. No, no plans to run for school board.

I contiunue to admire your involvement in important issues.

At the moment I'm mailing/e-mailing AFT-CIO chapters. The message is that in order to effect true education reform - and to save their jobs - they should be leading the campaign for having administrators and senior teachers visit parents re the importance of providing emotional support for education. I'm *hoping* that teachers will see the wisdom of being seen as leading the campaign for true education reform. We shall see.

I don't mention illegals, because I don't want to muddy the water.

Originally Posted by AmericanElizabeth

Bigtex, we begged and pleaded for help from doctors, school counselors and the principal, to no avail. We explained the issues we had with her, not normal rebellious behaviors, things such as out of control rages resulting in her smashing her fist into the walls (how many wall repairs we had to make to that place....), drinking, and also caught her "cutting" herself. Which once the "energy" of that rage was spent, she would go on her merry way as though it never happened.

Again, I am truly sorry you had problems like this. However, should it be the responsibility of our public schools to diagnose problems like this? Our duty is to educate kids. Teachers are taught to teach the three R's. We are not certified psychologists or medical doctors. We have school nurses who do nothing more than give out glasses of water and send kids home when they need more care than that. School counselors don't have time to work with kids who have issues because they are too busy doing scheduling, planning for state accountable exams and working to get immigrants tested and assigned to English classes. They other thing they have to spend all of their time on is getting kids medicare, free eye glasses etc. In other words counselors are now paper pushers, not by choice.

We do have classes for students that have been diagnosed as ED, LD, AI, MH, MR, OHI, OI, SI TBI, VI. The ED kids are in classes where they learn how to control their behavior and have to earn their way into mainstream classes. However, nothing we can do at school works unless there is reinforcement from home and doctors etc parents hire. Keep in mind, we are getting more and more of these kids and parents and the federal government is expecting us to give more and more for these special needs cases. All the while they are cutting more and more from our budgets. Meanwhile schools are expected to hire diagnosticians, psychologists, case mangers, liaisons, teachers, aids nurses etc etc. In the school that I work at we have over 75 certified special ed teachers involved with educating 250 special populations kids. We are severely over worked because of the huge amount of federal and state paper work involved, not to mention the burden of time and paperwork involved with the ARDs and Revisions we have to do 3-4 times a year for each kid. Now throw in all the LPAC kids are just learning English or are special ed too you have another 50 teachers and more paperwork.

Are our public school the best place to deal with these complicated areas? I hardly think so.

Originally Posted by Bettybb

You should not assume. We had our daughter evaluated by specialists, and medical doctors from the age 8 onward,and the schools were also aware of our concerns. But our daughter was a top academic achiever, junior olympic level athelete, and a school leader. She was not a behavior problem. Yet her behavior was odd, and of course, the over achieving is a system of mania.

Sounds like everything turned out for the best. However, with all the money we spend on special populations in our public school. Parents should not feel it is our duty to take care of these situations. Our job is to educate kids. We do the best we can given the situation of each kid. even those who have special issues. This can not be done at all unless we have support (and a lot of it) from home. Sounds like you were willing to give support. But again, schools are not equipped to solve these issues only accommodate the problems so the kids can get an education.

Originally Posted by Bettybb

But it is my experience that schools are very late to incorporate new medical theory into their system. Even now, in our district, parents have to fight for their kids who have disablities. I have a friend who moved to Texas. In her district, they test all kids in grade one.
Smart move.

Medical theory is not useful in a school setting. It takes time after medicine find out what is wrong to figure out how to accommodate a kid and teach around the disability. They you have to train teachers to get the job done. That can't be done over night and more time that not, school districts have to figure out how to get this job done without being sued in the mean time. Now days parents want to sue at the drop of a hat.

Yes here in Texas we do test all kids....earlier than grade one. We now start in pre-K. It is again, up to the parents from there to seek help in dealing with any problems. It is the schools job to figure out what accommodations are needed in public school setting so the kid can be educated in the least restrictive environment. You would be surprised at how many of our parents could care a less what happens with their kids. They don't show up for annual reviews, are not available for conferences, don't check up on progress and generally assume that we are going to raise their kids for them. Again, we are not parents, we are educators. Parents are the ones who need to "step up to the plate" and take responsibility for their own kids. This is something you don't see to much in public schools.

How many times have I called a parent and hear them tell me after 12 weeks of school they had no idea their kid was skipping class and now idea they were failing. Despite computer calls going home when a kids misses a class, progress reports being sent home every 3 weeks and report cards every 6 weeks. We also have all of our real time grades on-line. Yet parents tell me they didn"t have a clue.

I have a 15 year old who was born in Argentina and came to the USA with limited English. We hired an English tutor and refused to allow him to be put in LEP classes and labeled for life. After 3 months of a tutor and help from home he was able to make all A's and pass the state accountability test with a 100. My wife and I didn't expect the school district to take care of our disability and didn't expect tax payers to accommodate our child. Instead we expected them to give him the same education the rest of the kids got and in the same class rooms. I am sure you did the same with your kids but keep in mind, MOST parents don't feel this way.

Originally Posted by vistalad

Originally Posted by Bettybb

Vistalad, I can imagine your frustration trying to reach these kids who had many years of programing not to take education seriously. I hear you and agree. The parents are the key.

At my brother's school district in Canada, a teacher would make a home visit for each student, before the start of every school year. That way the teacher could better understand the chlld's home environment, and had an opportunity to discuss with the parents what they could do to assist their child academically.

My son went to school that was almost entirely Hispanic, only 11% white. I was PTA President, so was around the school and the kids a great deal. Very few Hispanic parents had any involvement with the school, whether it was the PTA. or Booster Club, or parent teacher meetings.

Some of the involved Hispanic parents explained to me that in Latino culture, a kid is considered an adult when they hit 13, and so the parents thinks their job is done when the kids reach high school, and the kids is on his own. They also need the kids to start working to supplement the family income. These kids are really being set up to failby their parents.

A big ^5 for your continued effort to help underperforming kids. Have you considered running for the school board itself? In our district, the school board trustees always turned up at the PTA District counsel meetings. It was a great opportunity to bend their ear one on one. Given the achievement gap, one would think that the educational powers that be would be willing to listen to any suggestion for improvement. But in my experience, if it is anything where the teachers' union has a say, it won't happen.

Thanks for the kind words. No, no plans to run for school board.

I contiunue to admire your involvement in important issues.

At the moment I'm mailing/e-mailing AFT-CIO chapters. The message is that in order to effect true education reform - and to save their jobs - they should be leading the campaign for having administrators and senior teachers visit parents re the importance of providing emotional support for education. I'm *hoping* that teachers will see the wisdom of being seen as leading the campaign for true education reform. We shall see.

I don't mention illegals, because I don't want to muddy the water.

Well done. Maybe we should try and convince Bigtex of the wisdom of attempting to tackle the problem at it's root cause. Check out his posts.

Originally Posted by Bettybb

At my brother's school district in Canada, a teacher would make a home visit for each student, before the start of every school year. That way the teacher could better understand the chlld's home environment, and had an opportunity to discuss with the parents what they could do to assist their child academically.


Well done. Maybe we should try and convince Bigtex of the wisdom of attempting to tackle the problem at it's root cause. Check out his posts.

Most teachers here teacher 200+ kids each day. Seems a little unrealistic that we would ever have the time to make a home visit to each of the kids we teach. Especially during the summer when we don't get paid. Not certain how willing you are to work for no pay but I certainly won't. I like my job and am very passionate abotu it but I do this as a profession. Not out of charity.

To further the problem, we have 1/3 of our kids that move out of the district and another 1/3 that move in.

The root of the problem is parents for the most part don't get involved with raising their children any more. Not much a teacher can do about that, we still have to teach them. Good bad, special problem, dangerous or even high on controlled substances.

What might even help further solve the problem is if people like you start teaching. It's awfully to throw stones at teachers when you have never bother doing their job. Yes, teachers are an awfully easy target to throw stones at. Especially by parents who are looking for someone to blame for them not being there to raise their own kids.

Originally Posted by AmericanElizabeth

BettyBB, my brother, who is now 49, and a foreman of a crew for a major concrete restoration company, making good pay, is actually a very smart guy. My mother and father (I am the last of six children) decided since they could not get the help from the school they had hoped for, scraped together the funds to hire a woman in town (we lived in a small town) who was a retired teacher, who tutored him over the summer, five nights a week. She realized what the problem was, and she went to the school too.

There they promised her, my mother and father, that he would get the help he needed, and come fall, he was placed in a new class full of fully mentally handicapped kids they were trying to integrate into mainstream school.

He started skipping school and refused to be there. By the end of the school year, he was 16, and the school decided to "release" him, meaning he no longer was a student, and no longer their responsibility. He has yet to get his GED, but is not a troubled person, in fact very successful.

We have heard so many stories within our area, and just cannot imagine why we have so much trouble with the school districts. We don't blame the teachers, although some are not good teachers, but there are many who are, and try, but, as I said, they are essentially handcuffed by all the rules and political correctness now.

My own aunt, a teacher said "a good teacher is always remembered, unfortunately, a bad teacher is always remembered too". However, the good teachers are always looked back with love and respect, I know this as my daughter did have one she still talks about (she is now 27) in fifth grade.

To be honest, my own opinion, is that our entire society, from politicians down to average citizens, is breaking down morally, and the problems we see with troubled children and families, immoral school administrators, self-righteous social workers (who step in and damage good families), corrupt big business and Wall Street tycoons, and on, all are symptomatic of our loss of morals and values.

This leaks into our public school system, has contaminated it, and the myriad of troubled kids has made it harder for those who are not and simply need help, the teachers are overwhelmed.

Many people with learning differences are very smart. They just need to learn to process information in a different way. I also do not understand school districts reluctance to face these issues and solve them. There is always a lack of money of course, but a lot of it is nothing more than resistance to change.

My friend's two son have learning problems. She had a terrible battle to get the servides her kids needed and she is an attorney. What she did aftwards was set up a department n our local Legal Aid Society so parents without the means or skills to fight for their kids could get help. Why should people have to go to such lenghts?

I still think most ordinary Americans have good strong values. But when people get in position of power, and money is at stake, watch out.

I have to say we've been blessed with our school district, most of our immigrants are from Asia and much smarter than our kids. Having said that, we also have a large percentage of autistic children, with my son being one.

When he was diagnosed, which took forever, we made some major life-changing decisions. I now work from home, reduced hours and reduced pay. I volunteer at his school and help him with his homework every night. I am in constant touch with his teachers and follow all recommended steps they suggest. He consistently tests advanced in math, science and reading, much higher than his "normal" peers. His behavioural problems are harder to harness. We want to teach him how he can moderate/control/redirect his behaviour, outbursts, stimming, etc.

He is in second grade now and spends most of his day in his mainstream class, instead of his special ed class. The problem is that he completes his work alot faster than the rest of the class (then tends to goof off). We want him to be self-sufficient as he gets older.

I believe if I hadn't taken these steps, it would have been easy for him to slip thru the cracks. The teachers are overwhelmed and need all the help they can get. I need to know how to help him transition between school and home.

My daughter wants to teach and will be leaving for college in the fall, but not too far away. She can't bear to be away from him too long and plans to be home weekends. My niece also plans to become a teacher. We need good teachers and I thank God for ours everday.

Originally Posted by bigtex

Most teachers here teacher 200+ kids each day. Seems a little unrealistic that we would ever have the time to make a home visit to each of the kids we teach. Especially during the summer when we don't get paid. Not certain how willing you are to work for no pay but I certainly won't. I like my job and am very passionate abotu it but I do this as a profession. Not out of charity.

The root of the problem is parents for the most part don't get involved with raising their children any more.

Under normal circumstances, I'd agree with the No work for no pay idea. The problem is that once 'Bama is finished with 'Bamacare, he's going to focus on implementing his nutball education reform proposal. The same parents who are now not providing emotional support for their children's education will have the power to close the school. That's lose-lose.

Your point about turnover is well taken. Perhaps it would be better to require parents to come to the school site, before their children can be enrolled in classes.

There's a salesman's bromide to the effect, If they're going to run you out of town, get at the head of the line and pretend that it's a parade! People are frustrated with failing students. Unfortunately there's nothing in 'Bama's education "reform" which requires parents to focus on the real reason why kids fail. Instead, he wants to penalize the teahers who have to cope with those kids. That's why I'm contacting AFT-CIO chapters re their being the ones who'll have to tell parents what the real problem is.

Again, teachers shouldn't have to do this. But if they don't do it, there's a real danger that they'll be blamed for the parents' failures and lose their jobs.

Originally Posted by Bettybb

You should not assume. We had our daughter evaluated by specialists, and medical doctors from the age 8 onward,and the schools were also aware of our concerns. But our daughter was a top academic achiever, junior olympic level athelete, and a school leader. She was not a behavior problem. Yet her behavior was odd, and of course, the over achieving is a system of mania.

Sounds like everything turned out for the best. However, with all the money we spend on special populations in our public school. Parents should not feel it is our duty to take care of these situations. Our job is to educate kids. We do the best we can given the situation of each kid. even those who have special issues. This can not be done at all unless we have support (and a lot of it) from home. Sounds like you were willing to give support. But again, schools are not equipped to solve these issues only accommodate the problems so the kids can get an education.

No, not really. With bi polar, the highs are exceptional, but so are the lows. When she finally crashed, it was spectacular. You might consider reading up on it so if you come across a kid who may well be in full manic phase, you could give a heads up to the parents.

Medical theory is not useful in a school setting. It takes time after medicine find out what is wrong to figure out how to accommodate a kid and teach around the disability. They you have to train teachers to get the job done. That can't be done over night and more time that not, school districts have to figure out how to get this job done without being sued in the mean time. Now days parents want to sue at the drop of a hat.

You misunderstand me. I am not saying teachers should be doctors. I am saying they should have basic knowledge about diseases that can impact a child's ability to learn. Check out AmericanElizabeth's posts to see how in far too many cases, parents are treated... ridicule, denial, evasion and blaming it all on the parents!

Yes here in Texas we do test all kids....earlier than grade one. We now start in pre-K. It is again, up to the parents from there to seek help in dealing with any problems. It is the schools job to figure out what accommodations are needed in public school setting so the kid can be educated in the least restrictive environment. You would be surprised at how many of our parents could care a less what happens with their kids. They don't show up for annual reviews, are not available for conferences, don't check up on progress and generally assume that we are going to raise their kids for them. Again, we are not parents, we are educators. Parents are the ones who need to "step up to the plate" and take responsibility for their own kids. This is something you don't see to much in public schools.

Universal testing should be the norm. Well done Texas. But in terms of parents who do not 'step up to the plate"... well what are schools and teachers doing about it?

The fact is, with the influx of Hispanic immigrants (legal and illegal), there are many kids whose parents are barely literate and have not a clue about what it takes to bring a child in a first world county.

There are schools who are adressing the problem, innovating, and obtaining good results.

Then there are schools like the one in Rhode Island with a 50% drop out rate. When the administration was finally forced to act, the teachers refused, dug in their heels, and refused to implement what were, frankly, minor reforms. They absolutely deserved to be fired.

How many times have I called a parent and hear them tell me after 12 weeks of school they had no idea their kid was skipping class and now idea they were failing. Despite computer calls going home when a kids misses a class, progress reports being sent home every 3 weeks and report cards every 6 weeks. We also have all of our real time grades on-line. Yet parents tell me they didn"t have a clue.

I wonder how many of the parents can read and understand the progess reports and report cards, and how many do not even have access to a computer. At my son's school, a large number of parents fell into this category.

Check out Vistalad's posts. He is lobbying to get the schools and teachers to reachout to the parents and educate them on what is required.

Blame the parents, keep doing the same thing and let the kids fail is not a reasonable position. We must have schools that can do the job, even with incompetent parents, and even if that means changing the way teachers do their jobs.

I have a 15 year old who was born in Argentina and came to the USA with limited English. We hired an English tutor and refused to allow him to be put in LEP classes and labeled for life. After 3 months of a tutor and help from home he was able to make all A's and pass the state accountability test with a 100. My wife and I didn't expect the school district to take care of our disability and didn't expect tax payers to accommodate our child. Instead we expected them to give him the same education the rest of the kids got and in the same class rooms. I am sure you did the same with your kids but keep in mind, MOST parents don't feel this way.

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This is another situation I find frustrating. Linquists know that a child can learn another language in about 3-6 months. Why have our school districts not set up an immersion school in each district into which all ESL kids are placed until they are up to speed in English and then moved to regular schools? It would be far less stressful on the ESL students and far less disruptive to regular students. I can tell you why. Because the teachers union would not allow it. They want bilingual education , which is nothing of the sort, but which does up the number of teachers and their pay.

Understanding that some Mexicans are at war with us will help to understand the school situation. Some Mexican kids are here to create as many problems as possible while taking advantage of the system. They not only do not want to learn our American ways but they are trying to hurt and disrupt the teaching system as much as possible to hurt everyone’s chances at an education. It will not matter how much money or how many teachers are trying to teach.

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