Thread: Spanish at school translates to suspension

Aracely, English always has been the language of our country and it needs to stay that way. It will be a tragedy and a disaster if it does not remain the official language, just as it would be if Iraq was speaking English five years from now. It is not right.

The language issue is BIG, because it is causing BIG problems.

Living in south Florida, you won't believe what I hear. Yes, every language, but mostly Spanish from foreigners. But people around here aren't seeming to feel as comfortable as they used to about it. More people are beginning to realize that if they are ever to feel fully a part of this country, the answer is to assimilate....learn the language, and speak it.

The people who want to "hang on" and "refuse" to speak the language are some of the very people who have helped bring many of these issues to the surface.

Obviously, tourists who are visiting the U.S. temporarily can't be expected to do well with speaking English. But when people come to America and put a doormat down in front of wherever they call home....it's time for some decency, responsibility and respect for the country which has opened its door to them. As can be seen, if it doesn't....the American dream can be somewhat of a nightmare.

Americans not only have a right to be vigilant as to whether or not people are assimilating, but a duty to insist that our government encourages this, and certainly does not encourage or support otherwise.

When a person enters on another country's soil, they should not arrive with a disrespectful and challenging attitude. This does not lead to any kind of positive bonding. It only leads to anger and resentment and division.

P.S. Aracely, just because we disagree on this one doesn't mean I don't still think very highly of you !! You know that I do ! I think you are so smart and the fact that you come here to discuss your feelings about it all and what you think, tells me that you are reaching out. That tells me that I need to reach back out to you !!

I am so glad you came back. Good luck on your essay. Did you say it's due tomorrow !? Yikes !!

Good Luck and see you tomorrow.

P.P.S. I can think of a few Americans that I'd gladly send to Mexico in return for having one of you !!

Thank you for coming back to talk to us.

When my oldest daughter was in the Reynolds District in East Multnomah county in Oregon (she's 23 now) one of her best friends was Russian, but funny thing, she spoke perfect English, wore typical clothes and make-up. They would ride to school together on the bus and the many other Russian girls (these were from the very conservative families who wore scarves, no make-up,etc....) would sit and talk "crap" (to quote my daughter) about all the American girls, including my daughter and her friend!! They did not know her friends first language was Russian and so she could understand everything they were saying. Then one day she caught them all talking really nasty about my daughter and she approached them and said in English "why are you talking about my friend?", they denied it and she said in Russian, "yes you are and I have been able to understand everything you have been saying about everyone else all year long!". That left these girls very embarrassed and from that time on they watched their mouths and what they said. But according to my daughters friend, this is not an uncommon attitude for the Russian immigrants to have towards Americans in general. She said at church services they are told not to make friends with the American kids, to only associate with other Russians. So it appears they too want the rewards of being here, but have their own sub-culture and want to keep it that way. My husbands mother came here in 1932 with her family, she was six years old, from Germany. They had left when Hitler was rising to power, her father did not want them to be a part of it all. She started going to school right away and was told by her parents "you will learn English and be an American". She did, by immersion, which is she was put in the classroom with the English speaking kids and by the end of the school year, she spoke perfect English, with almost no accent. So, if it worked then, it will work now, and yes, English should be the primary language, and people should be discouraged from speaking Spanish and whatever else in public. I find it subversive and disrespectful to all. Its one thing if you are a traveler and are speaking to a traveling companion, but to come here to live, not learn English, and continue as though you were in your former country, its rude. I would expect the same from myself. I would not consider moving to another country and not make all efforts to speak their language out in public.

Exactly, AmericanElizabeth. I would not move to Mexico or France or Germany or to ANY country without being sure that I understood the hardship and assimilation that would be involved.

Americans have been TOO NICE for TOO LONG.

This is where it has gotten us.

But I respect the principal's order and rules. They should be followed.

Shouldn't the principal follow the school district's rule? The district isn't backing the principal because she took action that she wasn't authorized to take.

On the issue of language and the use of English exclusively,
I asked in another post and will ask here, what of the American Deaf population.
They have a bonified language, (American Sign Language, a visualk gestural language which has its very own syntax, grammar, turn taking etc), and is recognized as such, (Thanks to the great William Stokoe) but is however, quite different from english.
You can read more about it/him here...
http://gupress.gallaudet.edu/Stokoecompliments.html

If the rule is English only, Then we are excluding a whole group of Americans that
DO NOT use english as their first language. (not to mention the millions of legal immigrants that live work and play here) English is an verbal/auditory language. So it is pretty illogical for many d/Deaf to use english as a first language and thus, when communicating with the hearing, use an ASL interpreter. I would add that interpreters aren't just for the Deaf population. ASL Interpreters for the d/Deaf and the hearing.
Do the interpreters not interpret for both? How in the world would the hearing understand the conversation without an interpreter giving the english equivilent of ASL concept verbally? Well provided the Deaf individual, reads lips and writes in English, I suppose that modality could work. It is my experience that most hearing, even when afforded the accomodation, do not like to take the time to write in long hand a conversation that can easily/quickly be conveyed through the use of an interpreter. It isn't always the d/Deaf seeking services from the hearing, it is often times just the opposite. Does the d/Deaf individual not deserve freedom of speech, or is it only if they can "verbalize" themselves, intelligibly and without accents? Should the members of the d/Deaf community be required to transcribe all conversations that are exclusivlely in ASL , so as to not make the hearing who may or may not be around them feel as though they are being "talked" about? I think English is important to learn and use, (esp. reading/writing)but many times this is a lil tougher for the d/Deaf individual, as English is pretty tough to learn without being able to hear it. Similarly, many immigrants that learn English will never be able to shake the accent of their native language. Chinese for example, there are just some English sounds they cannot here. The "R" sound comes to mind, which i believe they replace with the "L" sound. (I could be wrong on the specifics but for argument sake im using it as an example). If you look in our schools, it is also difficult for hearing people from intelligent long established American families to learn proper english, Or without impediments,(dyslexic, LD kids,plus lisps and stuttering etc). So Just because one speaks English as a native language,(i.e. American born and raised), doesn't automatically guarantee they will be using english (written or spoken), correctly, Intelligently, or without accents. (regional variations make sure of that-i.e., sodie pop, y'all, water/wardder, wal-martS, etc.). Because a person cannot articulate, (or does so at what is considered a poor level), in a language,(English), that all but requires the use of hearing, which they were not born with, is hardly a way to determine that persons intelligence or worth.
I know many consider the d/Deaf population to be disabled and or inferior. I have to say the "D"eaf person such as my college professor ( has 5 degrees, two are masters, one of which is English, the other linguistics.)often times consider themselves to not be disabled. As I was told by him, "I wasn't born with hearing,it isn't broken because it was never there in the first place, so how could I have lost it? Not to mention my God is Deaf. " It is generally the hearing majority that consider everyone that is Deaf to be disabled, and dumb, even to the point of calling them impaired. Why? because they aren't a cookie cutter mp.3 of the english language that measures up to Joe Blows criteria????

When My prof uses written english, it is precise and correct.
He also on occasion will accomodate the hearing people around him and use his voice/english. He is always grammatically correct but when one first hears his voice they are almost always taken back, as his voice is rough and sounds quite different from most hearing peoples voices. His pronunciation is often times skewed as well, (one word inparticular Interpreter, he prounounces Enter-predder), because he doesn't hear what he is saying. He feels it, the vibrations, and no matter how much he tries, his pronunciation will likely always be with an "accent."
So regardless of his level of intelligence, his flaws are always the focus of self rightous language police types.
I've also seen, comments on how certain immigrants learned to speak english without any accent at all. So I have to ask, is not learning the english language enough, must they too kick their accent before they would be accepted as "english speakers?" Even if like im my professors case,(or the chinese immigrant),they are using the English language without its counterpart, the ability to hear any or all of the syllabols? To me the whole problem with this line of thinking, (i.e. english only) is one criticism bleeds into another into another, into another etc.... Only a select few would be using appropriate, non-accented, ahem American english if it were to become the Primary language of this country. Plus the whole angle of regional variation or generational variations would cause problems that probably aren't even considered yet.
So I am in no way supportive of anything that resembles the language police.
All this rhetoric about American culture and a national language is a real joke. My ancestors, mostly cherokee, but some german, irish, as well, almost certainly didn't speak english upon arrival to this country,(did yours?). So if not but for the generation I/many man others, was/are born, I/others could have been a non english speaker. However just because my family has been here longer than the immigrant that arrives tomorrow, am I more entitled to be free/live here, than them? I don't think so. What about the inidians that were here long before the english speaking crowd? Did the anglos "assimilate" to the vaqrious tribes preferred languages? And if they didn't, which they didn't, then why is everyone else that comes to the states all of the sudden expected to do so and immediatly being speaking english?(Ill concede english is the majority of the language usedin the states, but is not the "offical national language") What about my good friend that came to the states from cambodia in the 80's?
He speaks five languages fluently,(and did so before he came here),one being english. He now owns two successful businesses as well as working for UPS. One problem, he has a hard, hard accent. Should he be criticized for that accent first and praised for his linguistic/all other accomplishments NEVER? Made to feel less than equal, when he goes above and beyone the description, "AMERICAN?"
There are many words we use everyday that don't even have origins in the english language (i.e. Patio, machete, etc. etc. etc.), do we boot them out of our vocabulary and revert back to the "Kings English?"
Oh wait, Kings english? monarchy, freedom, (of religion, speech), thats why we came here, "tired, poor, Huddled in masses" in the first place. To escape the heavy handed judgemental governments that would usurp our God given freedoms.
Oh and I almost forgot, what about the police forces? Should all K-9's and their human partners be suspended untill they re-learn commands in English? Should we allow all criminals drug dealers etc. out of jail because the human and k-9 officers used german commands instead of english?(In reference to some German Shepherd Dog handlers using German commands in-order to direct his/her GERMAN TRAINED IMPORTED partner?)
In closing I will say this.
It wasn't untill I took a second language in college that I found out exactly how bad my knowledge/execution of the english language is/was/will probably continue to be. I strive to improve myself where and when I can, but I by no means have perfect english, or anything else for that matter. Unlike my father,(who is a self professed red-necked southern twanging fella, that busted his arse daily while being some 900 feet under ground digging coal from this earth for over 20 years-surviving wall and ceiling collapses)
couldn't care less about my/or others opinions of his use of the words like, y'all, you'Uns, worder-for water, or the fact he adds an S to words where they don't belong. His number one goal was his taking care of his family, giving us a better life than he had. I suspect those who move to the states, whether they have their own "subculture" or not, are more concerned with their family being better off than he/she was That IS the American Dream. All men are created equal, not just the ones born between the two shining seas.

Handyman,

Perhaps I can help you with your confusion.

One, this has nothing to do with deaf people or police dogs. That is silly. I'm not going to even respond to that since it is so far off the map.

Secondly, did the Indians learn the language and assimilate? The ones that survived sure did.

Yes, perhaps all men are created equal. That still does not justify breaking and entering, burglary, theft, fraud, and illegal immigration etc....

The Irish came here legally. LEGAL immigrants are required to know basic English.

Learning the language of the nation you move to shows respect for that culture and citizenry. To refuse to learn the language but plant yourself as a permanent resident is rude at the very least and probably closer to insulting.

National polls show us close to 9 out 10 Americans support English as our national language.

Your musings about Indians, Drug Dogs, and Deaf people have nothing to do with that discussion.

W

The problem here is not the kid saying a few words of Spanish in the halls....the greater problem NATIONWIDE is bi-lingual education where the teachers speak and teach IN SPANISH! Ex Peace Corps volunteers or even teachers IMPORTED from MEXICO at taxpayer expense? YUP!!

The number 2 guy at Denver Public Schols went into some elementary school and asked why third grade kids can't speak any English after 3 years at DPS? He can do this because this number 2 guy is HISPANIC.

The article said everything in the classroom was written in Spanish too!

The kids of the rich and wealthy in every Latin speaking Spanish nation attend expensive private schools where the kids learn ENGLISH from grade 1 or even pre school. When these kids hit age 18 many come to AMERICA to study whatever because their rich parents can send them to Harvard, Yale, Stanford, U Miami etc.......so why do WE let poor ILLEGALS and their kids be catered to in Spanish with stupid bi-lingual education? Because a few racist groups like La Raza like a lawsuit from time to time...? It just wastes money and keeps immigrant kids down washing dishes and going nowhere....

My local public school here in Aurora, CO has Spanish notices on the doors and IF my daughter does not get in the gifted school next year that is %90 white we will probably move 15 to 20 miles south to almost all white public schools. This gifted school is 40 feet from the other school with the Spanish notices on the doorr and %53 of the kids are HISPANIC and the third graders cannot pass Colorado basic tests...in the schools 15 to 20 miles south %93 of the kids are passing while NONE are at this non gifted school with the Spanish notices on the door!

WE SPEAK SPANISH BUT WE KNOW WHERE WE LIVE AND THIS IS BS. ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT KIDS DON'T BELONG IN OUR SCHOOLS AND THE SONS AND DAUGHTERS OF ILLEGALS SHOULD NOT BE CITIZENS PERIOD ENOUGH SAID.

When this word gets back to Mexico they will not come here but for now our schools are falling apart in these immigrant areas and bi-lingual education just makes it worse!

Even here in Denver CO the Cherry Creek school distrcit is seeing more and more English Language learners....it means more tax dollars wasted and lower test scores and generally lousy schools...Cherry Creek is considered prestigous...for now anyway?

It is Los Angeles all over again.........little by little it becomes Mexico City....etc

I agree 100% with the principal. No language other then English should be spoken in public. Speak whatever you want behind the closed doors of your home but when in public I feel that all should speak English and English only.

Once agian, I have to say that I don't agree with English only in certain circumstnaces. School, work, etc. yes, but if you are out with your family and you speak a seprate language at home and it comes natural to just speak spanish or any other language you are going to do it.
It is extremly hard not to. I am all for English only at work and schools, I support it 100% but being in public does not mean that you should be forced to only speak one language. I understand where you are coming from. And the issue of illegal immigration may be resolved in the coming years, but we will still have legal immigrants and prbly even illegal ones, not as many but they will still exist. That is why I feel that it is not wrong to speak "your" language with your family if you happen to go out to eat, or shopping, etc.

As far as the russian girls incident, yeah that happens a lot. I have been discriminated against by Hispanics for having white friends. When I was in school I was very involved, well I still am. But in grade school its a lot different then in college. So, the Hispanics girls would call me names because I was in the school plays, involved in speech and debate, took all Honors courses etc. I have always been well rounded. But that was not "normal" since I was Hispanic. And it was not my white, black, indian friends critizing me it was the Hispanic people I knew that were not involved. So yeah, it happens Hispanics want to create a seprate world. And by doing this they are only hurting themselves. I am so thankful for what I have here for the opportunites I have been given. Not all Hispanics did this to me but many of them thought that I was stuck up becasue I got good grades and they didn't. And then when I offered my help it was like no way, you aren't helping us. So I know that groups from other countries tend to want to not assimilate and really the only ones losing are them.

ChrisF202 I will speak whatever language I wish and if you happen to be present and you have to hear it then well TOO BAD! If the kid wants to speak Swahili IN THE HALL of the school it is his right! Once class starts things change....COMPRENDE UD? BYE bye!