Thread: The Strange Case of the State of Utah

To a certain extent, all American states have a unique history, being settled at different times and by different populations. Some were settled by English colonists and their slaves, others during great land or gold rushes, others by small groups of settlers over several decades. Utah, however, has a history and a population that is unique in the country.

In 1847, Mormon leader Brigham Young led a group of settlers from the frontier settlements at Nauvoo, Illinois to the desert wilderness where he hoped they would enjoy life in Zion as they prepared for the end days. The unnamed territory to which they traveled was a part of Mexico at the time, but inhabited only by indigenous tribes.

The Mormons had been driven out of the United States after the death of their prophet, Joseph Smith. They had come into conflict with the “gentiles,” as they called non-Mormons in Ohio, Missouri, and Illinois for a complex mix of reasons. The Mormons voted as a block and had their own militias. Their communal living patterns and eschatological view were out of touch with the mainstream and apostate members claimed that Joseph Smith was taking plural wives, a claim that he hotly denied. After Smith ordered the destruction of the Nauvoo Expositor, an apostate newspaper, for repeating the allegations, he was arrested and taken to Carthage, Illinois. A mob attacked the jail in Carthage and Joseph Smith and his brother died in a gunfight with the mob.

Read the rest:
http://theopinionator.com/Politics/s...caseutah1.html

SO?

And this has what to do with illegal immigration?

If I remember correctly, the history of the Mormons began in Palmyra N.Y. where Joseph Smith found the so called religious plates.

They were thrown out of Palmyra, I believe. At any rate, they exited stage west. Joseph Smith died in a shoot out.

They then ventured further west, and finally landed in Utah, the so called promised land of the Mormons. Mormons are the fastest growing sect in the religious realm. Responsible for loads of genealogical records, and have the ability (supposedly) to baptize others by proxy. Their goal is to find as many to convert (or one of their goals is to find as many as they can to get themselves to some level,) celestial, terrestial whatever.

What does this have to do with any of the illegal immigrants? Lots. Mormons represent "Christian" religious association. So far from the truth of the matter. Therefore, illegals have found themselves in a group that distorts many truths, will always "convert" if they can, and in so doing the more the merrier. The more they convert advanced them in to bliss I guess.

By doing so, with generally Catholic minded Mexicans, they recruit them into the fold under false pretences. They give a good speech and representation, are always friendly and happy appearing, but are totally different by fooling people into their fold.

So .. as to where the Mormons stand as far as illegals go ... it appears it is more for their own gain and not for illegal immigrants.

As to what Mormon's truly think about illegals, is anyones guess.

You may ask, how do you know? Well, when in AZ I agreed to have them come to my home and give their teachings. I also lived in St. Johns, AZ (closed community where they actually put Christians out of a business because they would not convert), and I told the Mormons, the Mormon folks who always are two by two, if they take away the divinity of Christ in anyway, I will only view what they say as a learning experience. Right off the hop, the first session said they lived with God and convince him to allow them to come to earth and work to prove that they were worthy of gaining steps up the ladder to the Terrestrial level. Yet .. they never achieved the level of being with God. Jesus was another prophet.

In summary ... the name of the game is to get as many as they can converted (they get brownie points) to convert. They don't care who. I don't think Mexican's have a clue, but it's interesting V. Fox visited Utah. I think he perhaps knows, and doesn't give a hoot.

That's the only reason I can fathom as to why the Mormons are involved. Perhaps they vote or are on the side of the illegals for additional gains for themselves. Totally selfish, driven reasons.

I am not criticizing the Mormons, just saying what I've experienced. They can believe anything they choose. I'm not a bigot. I'm not a racist. But I will not be swayed from my own beliefs!

Oh, just as a gee whiz fact. The Mormons have agricultural fields and provide for other mormons who have hardships. I've see them. However, if a non-Mormon needs food, etc., it was a known fact at that time that they will only help their own.

Originally Posted by Sapperwes

SO?

I think he wants you to "KING ME".
I also would like to know what this person means. What does that have to do with legal and illegal people? What does that have to do with immigration?
Maybe this person wants you to know how many MORONS , I MEAN MORMONS, LIVE IN MEXICO. You know I hear thats the one of the biggest churches they have in Mexico now.
They have to get their PESO'S somewhere man.

I don't get it

Utah was not part of Mexico at that time or even before to my knowledge.

Originally Posted by KingM

To a certain extent, all American states have a unique history, being settled at different times and by different populations. Some were settled by English colonists and their slaves, others during great land or gold rushes, others by small groups of settlers over several decades. Utah, however, has a history and a population that is unique in the country.

In 1847, Mormon leader Brigham Young led a group of settlers from the frontier settlements at Nauvoo, Illinois to the desert wilderness where he hoped they would enjoy life in Zion as they prepared for the end days. The unnamed territory to which they traveled was a part of Mexico at the time, but inhabited only by indigenous tribes.

The Mormons had been driven out of the United States after the death of their prophet, Joseph Smith. They had come into conflict with the “gentiles,” as they called non-Mormons in Ohio, Missouri, and Illinois for a complex mix of reasons. The Mormons voted as a block and had their own militias. Their communal living patterns and eschatological view were out of touch with the mainstream and apostate members claimed that Joseph Smith was taking plural wives, a claim that he hotly denied. After Smith ordered the destruction of the Nauvoo Expositor, an apostate newspaper, for repeating the allegations, he was arrested and taken to Carthage, Illinois. A mob attacked the jail in Carthage and Joseph Smith and his brother died in a gunfight with the mob.

Read the rest:
http://theopinionator.com/Politics/s...caseutah1.html

Interesting version of the history of the Mormons. It leaves out those nasty little details like the precept that "apostates" (read: anyone who would not accept the Mormon "faith") had no right to property and the tenet of "blood atonement," which stated that the only way to save the soul of an apostate was to shed his blood and allow him to be reincarnated for another chance. Taken together, these two precepts led to an orgy of murder and pillaging against "apostate" farmers in Missouri and southern Illinois that resulted in federal troops being called into the Missouri territory to suppress the cult and its maruading. It was at that point that the Mormons hightailed it to Utah.

The author also fails to mention that the cult's founder, Joseph Smith, was a petty con artist with a long history of defrauding rural folks with claims of an ability to locate buried Indian treasure with his "seer stones." Once that scam had run its course, he claimed to have used these same magical stones to find and decipher the supposed golden tablets of the Book of Mormon. No one outside the LDS has ever seen these tablets, nor likely has any member of the Mormon faith, given that they are almost certainly an absolute fabrication. It should be noted that another con man later turned up with yet another set of fake tablets which he had Smith "authenticate." Using his magic rocks, Smith declared the tablets authentic - yet another piece of the supposed holy scriptures of the New World. Unfortunately for Smith, the other con man was not so inveterate a liar and later admitted that he had fabricated the fake tablets himself.

CrocketGhoast,

Excellent reply about Mormons. I wanted to venture into the Blood Atonement, but didn't want to bring up as much as I already did. I too, was exposed to that, known as those who wouldn't convert, shed their blood to save them from themselves. There is more, but we aren't studying Mormonmism here so felt I should not go further than I already replied.

Utah is an excellent place for illegals to congregate. Ripe for the pickin' so to speak. Used is another way of putting it. Vicente' Fox campaiging out there on our soil, probably knows all about this.

By-the-way, thank you so much for explaining the "troll" issue. I was kind of being whimsical about it, but truly felt it was sinister on the part of the "trolls."

Originally Posted by breezy

CrocketGhoast,

Excellent reply about Mormons. I wanted to venture into the Blood Atonement, but didn't want to bring up as much as I already did. I too, was exposed to that, known as those who wouldn't convert, shed their blood to save them from themselves. There is more, but we aren't studying Mormonmism here so felt I should not go further than I already replied.

Utah is an excellent place for illegals to congregate. Ripe for the pickin' so to speak. Used is another way of putting it. Vicente' Fox campaiging out there on our soil, probably knows all about this.

By-the-way, thank you so much for explaining the "troll" issue. I was kind of being whimsical about it, but truly felt it was sinister on the part of the "trolls."

Thanks for the comments, Breezy. In a lot of ways, the Mormon Church and other oddball sects get the same media protection that illegal aliens do. In the interest of non-offense, the dark truth about these entities is often intentionally obscured. I don't want to offend anyone, but if the truth offends that's not my fault.